no miracles?

arnoldyasin

Peace all,

Zidane, the word Kun which is translated as 'Be' only refers to a certainty, a certainty it will happen, it does not give any timelimit or how it is gonna happen.

Nerspi, people have translated the Quran differently because the previous generations under the influence of the Bible and Persians has laid out the rules for them that it must be so. Sadly, the Freeminds translations still is influenced by this thinking. Rejecting Hadith does not immediately imply they do not have influenced your approach.

And I'm certainly not the only one translating it as such, translators as Ahmed Ali, Muhammed Ali, GA. Parwez, Muhammed Asad and Noorudin all say the same thing as me. Muhammed Ali already said this in 1920 in the first ever English translation by a Muslim.

Sadly, translators as Yusuf Ali and Pickthal have determined the dominant approach, which is that of the Hadith-followers. Non-Muslim translators blindly followed the Hadith explanations of the Quran as they do not care what the Quran really says.

The Quran explains itself through repeating subjects and words in different contexts so we can understood the outlines of approach. It is also of course the God's Image people have. What Rasul means is that God do not break His Promises, and thus He voluntarely limits Himself, remember, He does this out of His own Freewill and decision. He still has the power to break His Promise, but He will not as God is the most trustworthy.

See how God limits Himself

240 O Children of Israel!
Remember My Blessings that I bestowed upon you (when you
were following My Commandments). Fulfill your promise unto Me
and I will fulfill My promise unto you. Be fearful of the
consequences of violating My Commands.

Now He cannot deviate from His Promise as He is the Most Trustworthy. Does this mean He doesn't have the Power? Of course He has the Power, His Ability has NEVER been questioned, it is about WHAT God Himself SAYS what He does and do.

We all have an idea what God is, but we mostly forget that God tries to explain Himself what He is, but we rarely listen. See for example how He explains His Will in the Quran and you will see that it is completely different then you thought

Article Yasha or Will of God as explained in the Quran

unknownuser

LOL

But Allah never promised anyone that he can't break the laws He created

phoenix1

Exactly, Ahmed. Allah is a big fat flip-flopper. He does one thing one day and then something entirely different the next. Who knows, he might end up sending all the sinners to heaven, and all the pious ones to hell! Allah can't be trusted.
And not only that, Allah acts very unfairly. He picks his favourites and allows them to perform magic tricks, and performs miracles for them to save them from fire and what not but average joes like us are completely ignored. I mean, I have never ever ever seen a miracle in my life. I prayed 24 hours a day for three weeks for it to snow in July, but it never did. God says he answers our prayers, and performs miracles, and can do anything he can, so why didn't he let it snow in July? Why doesn't it ever snow in July???
Ahmed Baghat is absolutely right. Allah is a big fat jerk.

unknownuser

306 Never does Allah fail to fulfill His Promise. But most people know not.
1055 Lo! verily all that is in the heavens and the earth is Allah's. Lo! verily Allah's promise is true. But most of them know not.

Yes most people do not know that!

4122 But as for those who believe and do good works We shall bring them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. It is a promise from Allah in truth; and who can be more truthful than Allah in utterance?

59 Allah hath promised those who believe and do good works Theirs will be forgiveness and immense reward.

968 Allah promiseth the hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers fire of hell for their abode. It will suffice them. Allah curseth them, and theirs is lasting torment.

972 Allah promiseth to the believers, men and women, Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide - blessed dwellings in Gardens of Eden. And - greater (far)! - acceptance from Allah. That is the supreme triumph.

2247 and Allah faileth not His promise
39 Allah faileth not to keep the tryst.
1331 Allah faileth not to keep the tryst.

Allah's words are His Laws because He cannot go against what He says! If your God can do otherwise then you are in trouble.

Peace all, Hamsa

unknownuser

In most cases does Yad refer to Ability or Strength. As for cross-reference,

2948 And thou (O Muhammad) wast not a reader of any scripture before it, nor didst thou write it with biyameenika, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood.

To translate biyameenika here as Right hand does not make sense, because if he would have written it with his left hand then they would not doubt it? It clearly refers to Strength or Ability I believe.

Peace Arnold,

To transcribe something with the RIGHT HAND in above verse means to conjure it as in?

And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
Laakhathna minhu bialyameeni
6945 We should certainly seize him by his RIGHT HAND,
And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart

There are numerous other metaphoric meanings for RIGHT HAND in Qur?an; power, authority, etc?

3967 No just estimate have they made of Allah, such as is due to Him On the Day of Judgment the whole of the earth will be but His handful, and the heavens will be rolled up in His RIGHT HAND Glory to Him! High is He above the Partners they attribute to Him!

3728 They will say "It was ye who used to come to us from the RIGHT HAND (of power and authority)!"

3793 Then did he turn upon them, striking (them) with the RIGHT HAND.

Whereas LEFT HAND has opposite meanings as like those blind in faith, etc?

1771 One day We shall call together all human beings with their (respective) Imams those who are given their record in their RIGHT HAND will read it (with pleasure), and they will not be dealt with unjustly in the least.
1772. But those who were blind in this world, will be blind in the hereafter, and most astray from the Path.

Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.
9018 Such are the Companions of the RIGHT HAND.
But those who reject Our Signs, they are the (unhappy) Companions of the Left Hand.

unknownuser

Be and it is! is not a magic that you blink your eyes and it is ready! Just think for a second it took 6 days(time periods) in the creation of the universe.

My God (my concept of God) DO NOT and CANNOT do anything against His laws.

Peace Hamsa,

What?s the difference if instantaneous or 6 eons?
What are those physical laws which would be broken?
Do we really know physics or enough about time which is a relative illusion?

And not only that, Allah acts very unfairly. He picks his favourites and allows them to perform magic tricks, and performs miracles for them to save them from fire and what not but average joes like us are completely ignored. I mean, I have never ever ever seen a miracle in my life.

Attitude leads to greater faith and blessings ? truly I?ve been blessed and thankful?

http//www.jannah.org/quran/q_ghamdi_fatiha.ram

Peace

Zidane

Peace all,

Thanks for your detailed replies.

Dear Arnold and RasulHamsa,

Thanks for your explanation about God and His laws such as in

306 Never does Allah fail to fulfill His Promise. But most people know not.
1055 Lo! verily all that is in the heavens and the earth is Allah's. Lo! verily Allah's promise is true. But most of them know not.

What I understand doesn't conflict with miracles at all, as I've said, that it is not "breaking His law". Is His law on us or on Him? Surely He is not under the law we are under. So how is he breaking the law? Isn't the the two clearly different

We want to do something (our freewill) and God lets it happen if it's under His law on us like I will to fly like superman but I can't, but then I want to walk now, then God allowed it (I just saw that it happened now - real). This is the normal things that happen.
God wants to do something (He is capable of all things), then it happens, there is noting affecting Him (not even time which is also created, but He can will to make it gradually also right?) Like the creation of earth, creation of Adam, creation of Jesus, and all the miracles. Also, don't mixup "law" with "promise". That's why the verses quoted about God is trustworthy, he ensures us that he does the good things and in God we put our trust. Hence, the word "trust" here. He is surely not under the laws that He made for us to be under.

Brother Arnold, I read parts of your article "Yasha or Will of Allah", the part explaining about Zacheria is very interesting and doesn't conflict. But I can't find where you re-explain the birth of Jesus miracle, where is it?

I read the first Mary part which is immediately after Zacheria part, Is that the the one you explain the birth of Jesus?

I hereby quote from your article "Yasha or Will of Allah"

"The same is with Mary where she is surprised to be chosen to bare a child, while in reality she thought she would be a nun the rest of her life. She asks how can I have a child? Allah answers with that His Will, which is expressed through His Laws, gives her the possibility to leave the Temple and get married. Which she does as explained in the verses after it. Mary believed it was Allah's Will to remain a nun, but Allah says she must submit to Allah's Laws and not to man-made ones. So her surprise was because of her misunderstanding of what really Allah's Laws were."

While the verses are

1916 And relate in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east.
1917 She took to a barrier which separated her from them, so We sent Our spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a human being in all similarity.
1918 She said "I seek refuge with the Almighty from you if you are a person of faith."
1919 He said "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you the gift of a pure son."
1920 She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1921 He said "It is such that your Lord has said, it is easy for Me. And We shall make him a sign for the people and a mercy from Us. It is a matter already ordained."
1922 So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place.

359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.

Now, where does it say Mary went to get married to have Jesus - THAT WOULD SURELY CONTRADICT WITH 359 ABOVE - or would you say the creation of Adam was also as such?

May God Guide.

arnoldyasin

Please read my book " Evolution of Thinking" which explains the Story of Mary in detail.

And Zidane, you present exactly why people believe in miracles, because you want too, not because the Quran necessarely says so.

It is a subject that needs a lot of study on different subjects in the Quran, so give it time.

Zidane

Brother Arnold,

Please explain this part of your article to me

I read the first Mary part which is immediately after Zacheria part, Is that the the one you explain the birth of Jesus?

I hereby quote from your article/book "Yasha or Will of Allah" at http//19.org/index.php?id=91,553,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=35d276b8ffb5b203e158f2db8d09a821

"The same is with Mary where she is surprised to be chosen to bare a child, while in reality she thought she would be a nun the rest of her life. She asks how can I have a child? Allah answers with that His Will, which is expressed through His Laws, gives her the possibility to leave the Temple and get married. Which she does as explained in the verses after it. Mary believed it was Allah's Will to remain a nun, but Allah says she must submit to Allah's Laws and not to man-made ones. So her surprise was because of her misunderstanding of what really Allah's Laws were."

While the verses are

1916 And relate in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east.
1917 She took to a barrier which separated her from them, so We sent Our spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a human being in all similarity.
1918 She said "I seek refuge with the Almighty from you if you are a person of faith."
1919 He said "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you the gift of a pure son."
1920 She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1921 He said "It is such that your Lord has said, it is easy for Me. And We shall make him a sign for the people and a mercy from Us. It is a matter already ordained."
1922 So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place.

359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.

Now, where does it say Mary went to get married to have Jesus - THAT WOULD SURELY CONTRADICT WITH 359 ABOVE - or would you say the creation of Adam was also as such?

Yes, I'll try to go on and read your "Evolution of Thinking" soon, if God so wills.

May God Guide.

unknownuser

Brother Arnold,

Please explain this part of your article to me

I read the first Mary part which is immediately after Zacheria part, Is that the the one you explain the birth of Jesus?

I hereby quote from your article/book "Yasha or Will of Allah" at http//19.org/index.php?id=91,553,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=35d276b8ffb5b203e158f2db8d09a821

"The same is with Mary where she is surprised to be chosen to bare a child, while in reality she thought she would be a nun the rest of her life. She asks how can I have a child? Allah answers with that His Will, which is expressed through His Laws, gives her the possibility to leave the Temple and get married. Which she does as explained in the verses after it. Mary believed it was Allah's Will to remain a nun, but Allah says she must submit to Allah's Laws and not to man-made ones. So her surprise was because of her misunderstanding of what really Allah's Laws were."

While the verses are

1916 And relate in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east.
1917 She took to a barrier which separated her from them, so We sent Our spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a human being in all similarity.
1918 She said "I seek refuge with the Almighty from you if you are a person of faith."
1919 He said "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you the gift of a pure son."
1920 She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1921 He said "It is such that your Lord has said, it is easy for Me. And We shall make him a sign for the people and a mercy from Us. It is a matter already ordained."
1922 So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place.

359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him "Be" and he was.

Now, where does it say Mary went to get married to have Jesus - THAT WOULD SURELY CONTRADICT WITH 359 ABOVE - or would you say the creation of Adam was also as such?

Yes, I'll try to go on and read your "Evolution of Thinking" soon, if God so wills.

May God Guide.

Hello

Also Mary said "She said How can I have a son when no human being has been with me"

I.e. it has nothing to do with being a nun rather by not being touched by another man

Salam

nerspi

Nerspi, people have translated the Quran differently because the previous generations under the influence of the Bible and Persians has laid out the rules for them that it must be so. Sadly, the Freeminds translations still is influenced by this thinking. Rejecting Hadith does not immediately imply they do not have influenced your approach.

peace

so the translators are to blame?
now if i learned arabic and read the qur'an in the arabic language, would i find that those verses that imply miracles actually mean something else, not miracles at all?

as for the birth of jesus, even if he had a father, why would God tell us that his birth is the same as adam's? why pick him of all people?
is it because people since jesus until the qur'an was revealed were under the impression that his mom was a virgin when she gave birth and since adam also means mankind, God wanted to point out that jesus's creation was like the rest of the mankind?

arnoldyasin

Peace Zidane and Nerspi,

Please take the effort of reading my book, it is not necessary for me to repeat everything when it is already written and explained completely.....

Samia

Peace Arnold, Hamsa, )

197 "O Zachariah, We give you glad tidings of a son whose name is John. We have not given that name before to anyone."
198 He said "My Lord, how can I have a son when my wife is infertile, and I have reached a very old age?"
199 He said "It is such that your Lord has said. It is an easy thing for Me. And I had created you before when you were not even anything."

Isn't it His law that infertile and very old people can't have babies but then "It is such that your Lord has said. It is an easy thing for Me. And I had created you before when you were not even anything." so then you should try to find patches to show that it is not a miracle in all those verses?

It is not "breaking His law". Is the law on us or on Him? Surely He is not under "our" law.

His law is that sterility, or even sterilty by age, can be cured. Doesn't that happen now? He explains this in 2190

"So We answered his call and We bestowed upon him Yahya (John, if you wish) and cured his wife

To transcribe something with the RIGHT HAND in above verse means to conjure it as in

And if the apostle were to invent any sayings in Our name,
Laakhathna minhu bialyameeni
6945 We should certainly seize him by his RIGHT HAND,
And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart

..."

6945 In the original Arabic, "his" before "right hand" does not exist. You correctly transliterated it., which is even a further proof that it means "mighty/power/most seriousness...)

peace

so the translators are to blame?
now if i learned arabic and read the qur'an in the arabic language, would i find that those verses that imply miracles actually mean something else, not miracles at all?

Not the translators, their prior text.

It doesn't matter whether you master Arabic or you know nothing of it, as long as your prior text is immeresd in hadiths and fairy tales, and you insist on them, you will not unsersand anything.

peace

since adam also means mankind, God wanted to point out that jesus's creation was like the rest of the mankind?

Exactly. You Got it!!

warner

Peace Samia

Will it be wrong to use right hand or right side in Laakhathna minhu bialyameeni in 6945

20 17
Pickthall And what is that in thy right hand, O Moses?

Transliteration Wa ma_ tilka biyaminika ya_ mu_sa_

20 18
Pickthall He said This is my staff whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep, and wherein I find other uses.

Transliteration Qa_la hiya asha_y atawak ka u 'alaiha_ wa ahus syu biha_ 'ala_ ghanami waliya fiha_ ma a_ribu ukhra_

The above 2 verses can they be translated as ,

What is your Strength Moses?
He said, "It is my conviction/faith on it I lean; with it I beat down fodder for my flocks; and in it I find other uses."

Can you please advice on the language ?

Samia

Salaam Warner
Before I comment on this, would you tell me the exact Arabic word/words for conviction/faith

arnoldyasin

Asa in its essence means "State of Unity" or "That which supports", "Collection", "Come together", "Gathering" it refers to a cane, as the fingers unite on its handle. It was also used for people, nation, as you can support on them and they are united. It also referred too Faith, Belief, Conviction and other words that have a definition of unity and support or brings people together. This is my understanding from several dictionaries, and several Quran translators also use it.

When you study for example Lane's Lexicon on the word Asa, you can see that 90% of all uses of Asa, are in metaphors, where the Asa has more a metaphorical meaning then a literal one.

For example
Shaqu l-Asaa=The splitting of the staff=te disuniting of the body of the tribe.

Ayn-Sad-Waw = to strike with a stick. asiya/ya'sa - to take a stick, come together, collection, accumulation, amazing, gathering, assemblage, congregation. asa - staff, stick, rod, supports, nation, mastery, people, party, tongue, skin, bone. idrib bi asaka al hajer - strike with your staff on the rock, go forth with your people.

warner

Salaam Samia

How about "ayman"

Zidane

His law is that sterility, or even sterilty by age, can be cured. Doesn't that happen now? He explains this in 2190

"So We answered his call and We bestowed upon him Yahya (John, if you wish) and cured his wife
..."

Peace Brother Samia, Arnorld,

I said that "Isn't it His law that infertile and very old people can't have babies". Can infertile people have babies?

I didn't say that they can't be cured because God is capable of all things. They can surely be cured by God. When they are cured, they are fertile.

About which you say that Doesn't "that happen now?", I know little, so please show me evidence that infertile people can be cured now. And even if they can, for me, it is God's miracle that He cured them at that time. Also remeber that Zacharia was also

194 He said "My Lord, my bones have gone frail, and my hair has turned white, and I have never been mischievous in calling to You my Lord."

Hence thise verse

199 He said "It is such that your Lord has said. It is an easy thing for Me. And I had created you before when you were not even anything."

It clearly shows that God is capable of all things, beyond what people see ordinarily.

2190 So We responded to him, and We granted him John, and We cured his wife. They used to hasten to do good, and they would call to Us in joy and in fear. And to Us they were reverent.

To me, this "curing" is because "They used to hasten to do good, and they would call to Us in joy and in fear. And to Us they were reverent."

NOT because "He thought it was impossible, due to his limited knowledge of the possibilities in Allah's Creation" as in Arnolds's "Yasha or Will of Allah" article.

Now 340 shows

340 He said 'My Lord, how can I have a son when old age has reached me and my wife is infertile?' He said 'It is as such that God does what He pleases.'

That's clear enough for me.

And remember the whole Jeus story I posted 2 times already, if it was like in Arnolds's "Yasha or Will of Allah" article that Mary went to get married to have Jesus then why this verse

2191 And the one who protected her chastity, so We blew into her from Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.

Immediately after 2190 about Zacharia... Releating to chapter 19's stories perfectly.

Breaking the law? No.

The ordinary laws, limitations are on us, humans, NOT ON GOD.

659 And with Him are the keys to the unseen, none know them except He. And He knows what is in the land and in the sea; and not a leaf falls except with His knowledge; nor a seed in the darkness of the Earth; nor anything moist or anything dry; all is in a clear record.

If we try to do something, by our free-will, that is beyond the laws then God doesn't allow it to happen. For example, I can't fly like superman.
The Algorithm, as I understand, goes like this

Freewill -> if God allows -> it happen if He wishes.

This law is on the CREATED.

THIS IS SURELY NOT THE SAME WITH GOD. Why? Because, as in 340 and so many other verses showing God is limitless and capable of all things, He said 'It is as such that God does what He pleases.'

For me, that is clearly why

God CAN and DID make the (real) fire cool to Abraham as shown in the veres I already posted. (Yes, in the translations that I used - progressive muslims translation - with no parenthesis or patches to make it look like the rage of people instead.).
God CAN and DID make Mary give birth to Jesus when "no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?". And it happened according to 2191 above, NOT THAT SHE WENT TO GET MARRIED TO HAVE JESUS.

I hereby apologize if my understanding is wrong or if I don't comprehend that which you do, or if my words offended any of you in any way. God please forgive.

God knows best.

handshake Even though many of us might seem different in many ways but I am happy that we all worship God Alone.

15 You alone we serve, and You alone we seek for help.

May God Guide.

Zidane

Peace Zidane and Nerspi,

Please take the effort of reading my book, it is not necessary for me to repeat everything when it is already written and explained completely.....

Sorry for my impatience that I ask it here instead.

Yes, I'll try to read it soon, if God so wills.

May God Guide.

nerspi

It doesn't matter whether you master Arabic or you know nothing of it, as long as your prior text is immeresd in hadiths and fairy tales, and you insist on them, you will not unsersand anything.

peace

ok, but since there is more then one meaning for a certain word in arabic like with asa or other words and these translators choose a certain word like "cane" and "snake" or "sea" and "split" or "brought back the dead" so it would seem that miracles happened but arnold, and others that he listed, have translated it differently, they used different words to translate it.

arnold listed several meanings for the word asa there and many translate it as cane but he choose to translate it as conviction. and there are other words too, some translate a sectance "brought back the dead" but he chose different words so the sectance changed.

so is there an expert on arabic language who is not immersed in hadith who can translate the qur'an correctly? or am i gonna have to learn arabic myself to know what the actual message was?