Abortion
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Peace Siki,
I was actually gonna put that picture in the trash section, but coz I?ve been told in PM not to post legitimate threads in the trash section I decided to post this in the main section.
The pic was suppose to incite a reaction, but it is a daft thing to do since I would assume most members of the forum are against abortion - Mods please remove the pic.
Thanks.
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It?s removed now.
Has it come to that?
Are we really talking about this?Not sure what you mean bro Alen.
Abortion has been around for a very long time?.
In Paki land they don?t have the surgical equipment like we do so they get a lady to use her hands to get the baby out (apparently).
About 8 years ago I read in a pro-life leaflet that since abortions have been practiced in the UK 2 million babies have been aborted in this country; the number has obviously gone up now.
In places were abortion is illegal, it?s practiced at a higher rate, but without using surgical equipment by qualified people it damages the health of the pregnant woman, it may even kill her if not practiced properly.
Most women that have abortions end up suffering from psychological problems (chronic guilt/depression and some even contemplate/commit suicide). Women need to be made well aware of the facts before they undergo the procedure.
salaam
peace -
Salam,
Threat for the life of the mother is a legitimate reason in my understanding for "a soul for a soul" self defence.
So, apart from poverty, I think one cannot say this or that reason are not accepted.A soul for a soul... but the thing is that, it is not guranteed that the mother would die if she continues to have the baby.. The law of equality/ fair retribution doesnt apply here since the mother is not murdered.
On self-defense... Adam's son said
528 Even if thou stretch out thy hand against me to kill me, I shall not stretch out my hand against thee to kill thee, lo! I fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
1733 And slay not the life which Allah hath forbidden save with right. Whoso is slain wrongfully, We have given power unto his heir, but let him not commit excess in slaying. Lo! he will be helped.
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Peace
I do personally feel that a few of the reasons for an abortion could be justified,
I do not.
incest
So punish the child for the faults of the parents?
rape
Punish the child for the crimes of an agressor?
lack of money
Ever hear of adoption?
abnormal fetus
Punishment for being different?
Joe
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Assalamo alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
The reason women opt for an abortion include
-rapeThis is all the more reason NOT to have an abortion. A couple has already sinned gravely by committing this adultery or rape, and now they seek to have an innocent unborn human being pay the price for their wicked crime. Rape is not an excuse to have an abortion.
-incest
Same as rape, it is a shameful deed, and having to bear an "unwanted" child should be the punishment of such stupid people who engage in incest, rather than punishing an innocent unborn child for the irresponsibility of his or her parents.
-mother has health problems
If giving birth to the child will put the mother's life in jeopardy, this is valid grounds to have an abortion.
-possible fetal health problems
This is not a valid grounds to have an abortion. Just because a child may be deformed or suffer terminal illness throughout his life doesn't mean he loses his right to live.
-unready
Then why would they get pregnent if they are unready? This is the flimsy excuse to have an abortion.
-is too immature or young to have child
If you are biologically able to get pregnant and bear a child, then you are not too "young" or "immature", but the way Western society is, 13 and 14 year olds are still treated like "children", whereas in a normal society (i.e. an Islamic society) they should be treated as adults and have the same responsibilities as adults.
-woman's parents want her to have abortion
And if the woman's parents want her to kill an innocent person, that is a valid reason to do it? But that is exactly what abortion is
-has problems with relationship or wants to avoid single parenthood
Then why did she get pregnant in the first place? Why should innocent human beings pay the ultimate price for the stupidity of some women?
-husband or partner wants her to have abortion
Same with the parents' issue.
-has all the children she wanted or all children are grown
So that gives her the right to abortion?
-can't afford baby now
This is due to not having faith in Allah Taala, who is Ar-Razzaq, (The Provider), and none should despair of His provision for them
KILL NOT YOUR CHILDREN FOR FEAR OF WANT WE SHALL PROVIDE SUSTENANCE FOR THEM AS WELL AS FOR YOU. VERILY, THE KILLING OF THEM IS A GREAT SIN. (1731)
-unmarried
This is why unmarried people should not engage in sex, and why it is a sin in Islam for them to do so. But if they wish to defy the command of Allah, why should they be allowed to not shoulder the consequences for doing so?
-student or planning to study
This is also due to financial worry, a worry which has been addressed by Allah in the above cited ayat.
The rest of the reasons are all "ditto".
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This is all the more reason NOT to have an abortion. A couple has already sinned gravely by committing this adultery or rape,
yeah sure, she must have been looking for it... just like the killer and the killed, both committed the crime, didn't they ?
having to bear an "unwanted" child should be the punishment of such stupid people who engage in incest,
when a young girl got raped by her father or uncle, which incest is often about, this stupid girl should be punished for sure, isn't that so yusha ?
D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D >D
now yusha, don't get me wrong, i'm not pro abortion, even though i doubt of your ability to make the difference
elke
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yeah sure, she must have been looking for it... just like the killer and the killed, both committed the crime, didn't they ?
Comparing rape to killing is not plausible. In murder, most often than not, there is a perpetrator and a victim. Rape is a severe form of adultery, but it is adultery none the less. The woman is raped against her will, but she was still asking for it, otherwise she would not have been raped. Therefore, justice demands she also suffer the consequences for the rape, which is an abomination against the morality which Allah Taala has enjoined upon humanity
Soon will the wicked be overtaken by humiliation before Allah, and a severe punishment, for all their plots (6124)
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The woman is raped against her will, but she was still asking for it, otherwise she would not have been raped.
??? you even are able to contradict yourself in such a short sentence , absolutely incredible, and not even taking into consideration the abominations that you profer
Soon will the wicked be overtaken by humiliation before Allah, and a severe punishment, for all their plots (6124)
so you just take care...
lk
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The woman is raped against her will, but she was still asking for it, (6124)
Now you are giving us a new meaning for "against their will". I will never, from today, be angry or sad for those imprisoned in Guantanamo against their will, because they were asking for it.
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Peace,
incest
So punish the child for the faults of the parents?
rape
Punish the child for the crimes of an agressor?
lack of money
Ever hear of adoption?
abnormal fetus
Punishment for being different?
Nabi my view is not based on 'punishing' the child, IMO if woman in those situations does not want a child, we are punishing her.
But your not a woman so I wouldn't expect you to understand.
As for abnormal fetus, is it fair on the child?
I know if I was handicapped I would rather that my mother have aborted me.
The woman is raped against her will, but she was still asking for it, otherwise she would not have been raped.
I have never heard anything so dumb in my entire life!!! o o o (mods say something before I explode! >
KILL NOT YOUR CHILDREN FOR FEAR OF WANT WE SHALL PROVIDE SUSTENANCE FOR THEM AS WELL AS FOR YOU. VERILY, THE KILLING OF THEM IS A GREAT SIN. (1731)
why is Allah not providing for all the poor children around the world that don't even have access to clean water Yusha?
Nabi who's going to adopt millions of children?
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The woman is raped against her will, but she was still asking for it, otherwise she would not have been raped. Therefore, justice demands she also suffer the consequences for the rape, which is an abomination against the morality which Allah Taala has enjoined upon humanity
That is the most disgustingly, horribly, wrong, thing I have ever read in my life. None of this information is retrieved from the Quran. How you could believe in what you speak is completely beyond me.
No woman is ever "asking" to be raped. To punish her for someone elses horrible crime against her is inhuman.
You have assured me, more than ever, that Islam by Quran alone is the only correct path.
Nurd
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That is the most disgustingly, horribly, wrong, thing I have ever read in my life. None of this information is retrieved from the Quran. How you could believe in what you speak is completely beyond me.
No woman is ever "asking" to be raped. To punish her for someone elses horrible crime against her is inhuman.
You have assured me, more than ever, that Islam by Quran alone is the only correct path.
NurdWhile I agree with you but I would add that, some women do seduce others so in such situation the punishment to the rapist could not be the death panelty and ofcourse no punishment for the woman. Quran deals with the root cause. It is prohibited for women to show their figure in public but it also gives instructions to men
2430 Tell the believing men to lower their gaze, and guard their modesty. This helps them grow in character. Verily, Allah is Aware of what they do.
And for the women
2431 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze, and guard their modesty. That they should not display their beauty and ornament beyond what is decently and spontaneously apparent in daily lives. Hence, let them cover their bosoms with their sash (Dupatta, a light covering). And let them not display their beauty in the presence of anyone other than their husbands or fathers or husbands? fathers, or their sons or their husbands? sons, or their brothers, or their brothers? sons or sisters? sons, or their womenfolk, or their close dependents and attendants free of sexual desires. Or children who know nothing of women?s privacy; and they should not strike their feet so as to reveal their hidden beauty and ornaments. And, turn to Allah together, O Believers, in order that you may succeed (in establishing a benevolent society)
3359 O Prophet! Tell your wives, your daughters, and women of the believers that they should draw loose fitting garments over their person (when in public). This is easy and proper, so that they may be recognized and not bothered. Allah is Absolver of imperfections, Merciful.
We face such problems in our society, like rape and zina which are strictly prohibited, because we do not follow the laws God has made for us to follow. All the punishments mentioned in the Quran do not apply blindly but according to the situation.
peace
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Comparing rape to killing is not plausible. In murder, most often than not, there is a perpetrator and a victim. Rape is a severe form of adultery, but it is adultery none the less. The woman is raped against her will, but she was still asking for it, otherwise she would not have been raped. Therefore, justice demands she also suffer the consequences for the rape, which is an abomination against the morality which Allah Taala has enjoined upon humanity
Oh my God, Im beginning to feel that it seems Yusha is playing with us. If that is really true then I guess good job we all have been had. And if it is not true then all I could say is 'What the ****!?!'
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Rape is a severe form of adultery, but it is adultery none the less. The woman is raped against her will, but she was still asking for it, otherwise she would not have been raped.
That's a disturbing comment! Women don't ask to be raped, rape is involuntary, it's a violation, rape is sex against ones will with physical force to subdue the victim! To say that someone was actually asking for it, asking to be raped, well that's a contradiction of terms, it means its not a violation, its not involuntary, it's not rape then. People who have been raped have no choice in the matter, if you have ever known anyone who has been raped you would know this!!
As a hypothetical example, If tomorrow god forbid, a pervert pinned your mother down, forcibly had sex with her, It would be your mom's fault, because your mom was asking to be raped? Do I understand you correctly???
Rumi
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Oh my God, Im beginning to feel that it seems Yusha is playing with us.
It seems that way does it not? Hard to believe but like Elke said, this type of thinking is pretty prevalent in some places unfortunately. What really annoys me is the way refutations are ignored and countered by flimsy excuses, not to mention unevidenced comments that are quite frankly very disturbing.
The woman is raped against her will, but she was still asking for it, otherwise she would not have been raped. Therefore, justice demands she also suffer the consequences for the rape, which is an abomination against the morality which Allah Taala has enjoined upon humanity
Many have already addressed this. I'm amazed and disgusted.
If you are biologically able to get pregnant and bear a child, then you are not too "young" or "immature", but the way Western society is, 13 and 14 year olds are still treated like "children", whereas in a normal society (i.e. an Islamic society) they should be treated as adults and have the same responsibilities as adults.
I find it hard to believe how anyone can consider them to have the same responsibilities as adults, physical maturity does not equal mental maturity. To make an unevidenced comment that in an "Islamic society" they should be the same as adults is just the same as many other statements coming from the same poster...unevidenced and illogical, not to mention NOT what the quran says.
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I can see this is a sensitive topic, and I did not foresee it would cause so much controversy. But what I mean is that in the case of rape, the woman is not being voluntary, yet the fact that she is being raped is due to her being dressed immodestly, or being out in public by herself. In Islam, when a woman is out in public, she is to be accompanied by a non-mahram male, such as her father or brother, or otherwise her husband. Woman should also not be out in public too much.
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof (2431)
So she should know better, and if she is raped, than in a sense she was "asking for it". Just like if you drive recklessly, though you do not intend to get into an accident, if or when you do, obviously you were "asking for it". So as far as I am concerned, if Islam was the law of the land, rape would not be a problem at all, it would be non-existent.
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Peace bros/sis
To say every rape is asked by a woman is completely wrong and disturbing, I agree with all of you. But there are situations where it all starts by mutual consent but ends with rape. So in such situations both are guilty.
I dont know why Yusha has made such a strange statement. He should clarify his point here.
peace
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Of course, if a woman is in a bikini, even though the guy is supposed to lower his gaze and walk on, she was wrong to "turn him on". This reminds me of the whole women should not pray in front of men because they get turned on... -. A man commited RAPE but that's just mitigating circumstances because the woman is dressed immodestly.
But what I mean is that in the case of rape, the woman is not being voluntary, yet the fact that she is being raped is due to her being dressed immodestly, or being out in public by herself. In Islam, when a woman is out in public, she is to be accompanied by a non-mahram male, such as her father or brother, or otherwise her husband. Woman should also not be out in public too much.
What if the mahram male is shot by these guys while taking her to the hospital and then she gets raped. Asking for it? Better cage the women up.