2:282 A female witness is ? a man?
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peace
I think that we are translating the words for "men" and "women" wrong. I know my knowledge of arabic is next to non existent but I feel that the word for men, in the language of the quran (I don't know what it is, so let's call it Y) and the word for women (X) have been influenced by culture.
For example, all the words for left handedness are derived from negative words. What meant clumsy, or evil, became "left handed" because of the view of left handedness. And all the positive words came to represent right handedness. I'm a lefty btw, so I feel very strongly about this.
So, it's possible that Y used to mean "strong" or something like that, and and X used to mean "weak" or something similar. Because of the cultural views of arabs and persians etc the words came to represent the sexes.
This is just a thought of course. I'm waiting for Samia to post her long story. -
Salaam Elke
Yes, to the first question.
"nasa'a" nuun seen hamza means to be late.
"nasiya" root nuun seen waw means to forgetThe first is the root for "nisaa'", can be used to mean women
The second is the root for "niswa" or "nuswa" only used for "women" as in 1230 -
so how are you sure which or if either refer to women?
The "nuswa/niswa" is more sure to be for women than "nisaa'".
The first is not a plural of any word I know. It is used in the quraan once in a context that only means women (so far )On the other hand, "nisaa'" is the actual plural of a completely different word. Its usage in the qur'aan, although always interpreted as "women", can sometimes raises questions as to the logic/meaning of the verse/sentence in which it appears.
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peace
I think that we are translating the words for "men" and "women" wrong. I know my knowledge of arabic is next to non existent but I feel that the word for men, in the language of the quran (I don't know what it is, so let's call it Y) and the word for women (X) have been influenced by culture.
For example, all the words for left handedness are derived from negative words. What meant clumsy, or evil, became "left handed" because of the view of left handedness. And all the positive words came to represent right handedness. I'm a lefty btw, so I feel very strongly about this.
So, it's possible that Y used to mean "strong" or something like that, and and X used to mean "weak" or something similar. Because of the cultural views of arabs and persians etc the words came to represent the sexes.
This is just a thought of course. I'm waiting for Samia to post her long story.Don't tell me that NO Arabic word existed for Men /women , during Mohammad's(pbuh) time. ???
siki
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Don't tell me that NO Arabic word existed for Men /women , during Mohammad's(pbuh) time. ???
siki
Peace siki,
see this thread, there were other ones on that but i didn't find them. But may be this can reengage the discussion. I'm curious too !
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11583.0
lk
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Allah knows better than us what He has created. Responsibilities of men and women are different. Due to her responsibilities she is more likely to err than a man that is why the other woman is necessary for the issue of witness. Allah has also given a relaxation to women, in case one is not available then the second can go to Court.
This particular verse also asks us to observe what Allah has prescribed different roles for men and women in a society.
Peace all, Hamsa
Responsibilities for sure, but that does not mean women are more prone to err as what your saying. Is there any scientific or empirical evidence to back this up, that women are more likely to err than man??? Gee wizz, guess we should be careful around women doctors, women pilots, women politicians, women with any type of profession. I've heard this argument before, people have said similar reasons along the same lines to justify that a women's place is in the home, producing and taking care of babies, because in the workplace she is more prone to err. This sort of argument doesn't sit well with me. So please kindly explain how they are more likely to err. The Quran doesn't say that women are more prone to err, that they're more fallible than men. Just that in the possibility of erring women have access to backup, she can get correction from a fellow sister. We aren't really sure what the justifications are for having this ruling. It does not say they make more mistakes, they are prone to err, though I guess I can understand how you can interpret it as such.
My idea's on this is that men are usually the dominating figure, simply because we were given biologically more brute physical strength. In the chance that a man might dominate over a woman witness, she can be comforted in knowing that her testimony is supported by another, her fallibility in the chance of any unforeseen male pressure should be less of an issue because of this ruling.
I don't know, just my thoughts. RasulHamsa, it is going to be such a major pain if you can actually show me women are more prone to err, this means I'm gonna to have to change my dentist, I'm going to be extra grateful for actually being here typing to you folks since I just got off a flight with a women pilot. I guess this would also mean the Saudi's were right, women should not be driving cars..
Sorry to the late reply.
Salams.
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this means I'm gonna to have to change my dentist, I'm going to be extra grateful for actually being here typing to you folks since I just got off a flight with a women pilot.
Salams.
And most of all be grateful to God that you are still alive, because your mother did not err and put some acid in your bottle instead of water ... pr
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(2282) says in the middle of the verse that "get two witnesses of your own men, and if there are not two men then a man and two women such as you choose for witnesses - so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.... "
Peace brother Rumi,
We know the reason as the verse is very clear why two women are needed. Two women are needed If one(woman) errs the other(woman) remind her....
Simple, isn't it? God better knows what he has created.
Salaam, Hamsa
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Peace brother Rumi,
We know the reason as the verse is very clear why two women are needed. Two women are needed If one(woman) errs the other(woman) remind her....
Simple, isn't it? God better knows what he has created.
Salaam, Hamsa
Brother Hamsa, you have said earlier "she is more likely to err", these are your words. But from the verse that you, yourself have highlighted, the verse does NOT say this!! It does NOT say she is "more likely" to err. What it does say is that she is given the privilege to have another sister present to be reminded IF she does err. This is completely NOT the same as women are more likely to err.
Your reasoning above that women are more likely to err, is why most cases of Shariah law deems the word of a woman to be half a man (4 male witnesses = 8 female equivalents). In my view this completely perverts Quranic laws, since in the other verses with regards to crimes and their convictions, the Quran requires 4 witnesses and that the Quran does NOT seem to specify any distinction between sex, male or female. Remember this particular verse 2282 concerns only contractual obligations between parties, NOT crimes! To generalize that women are prone to err is thus to distort their value as witnesses in general, is quite a severe distortion.
Like I asked from you politely before, please show to us that women are more likely to err. It's doesn't say that in the Quran, you have to distort it to be able to read that.
Salam
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Peace brother Rumi,
We know the reason as the verse is very clear why two women are needed. Two women are needed If one(woman) errs the other(woman) remind her....
Simple, isn't it? God better knows what he has created.
Salaam, Hamsa
And if not?
And if a male witness errs?