Our Own Country: please vote thanks
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I don't get it, will this country refuse other (religions) people to live there? confused
No no, not at all, the country will allow people from any religion and race to be its citizens. But everyone is subjected to the same law - the Quranic law. I am asking this question because no country has based their laws entirely on the Quran yet. Especially in Malaysia where we have Civil Law and Shariah Law used seperately on defferent matters. Just a thought really. Wanted your opinion if such a country exists.
And thanks for voting YES RasulHamsa, that's the spirit!
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Peace Ahmad,
That's kinda what I thought, but then after seeing some of the replies I wondered if I missed something. It's like no, I don't want to be with those who follow quran alone, I prefer diversity. Must it be one or the other?
Thanks for the clarification though. peace
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No no, not at all, the country will allow people from any religion and race to be its citizens. But everyone is subjected to the same law - the Quranic law. I am asking this question because no country has based their laws entirely on the Quran yet.
There was at one time a government almost based upon Qur?anic principles?
The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom drafted by Thomas Jefferson is the basis for the Religion Clauses in the US Constitution?s Bill of Rights and it?s no coincidence that Jefferson learned Arabic so he can read Qur?an and that the founding fathers that were in actuality mostly Deists (Muslims in a way) built the world?s strongest democracy.
http//religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/sacred/vaact.html
"Well aware that Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time; ?
Be it therefore enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in nowise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities?"
Peace
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peace
i like the idea, i'd be good to have a country like that but the problem is always a threat from people who don't like quran alone followers and if they try to attack they would kill a lot of us at once.
at least we're in different places now, they can't get to us all. -
Especially in Malaysia where we have Civil Law and Shariah Law used seperately on defferent matters. Just a thought really. Wanted your opinion if such a country exists.
And thanks for voting YES RasulHamsa, that's the spirit!
I don't think Malaysian Sharia Law can even be considered Quranic as this new hypothetical country aims to be, this goes for all other abominations of sharia law through out the world.
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Peace to all,
Any reasonable one will do lobster, we dont need to have all the answers and have a perfect translation to make progress. I originally read the Quran translation of Rashid Kahlifa at Submission org when I converted to Islam, then I read Yusuf Alis and most recently Mohhamad Asads version, I get the same message and feeling of peace from each version. I dont really care about what some ancient arabic interpretation could be about some minor issue, we all know what the basic message is regardless of whose interpretation as long as it is an honest and correct attempt. Anywhere we do have disagreements or differences then we wil work them out as honestly and ethically as we can together. We would elect representatives and consult each other over our disputes.
There are many good things we could do and I think it is something we should really attempt, I dont believe we would fail as I feel we may have God guide us in our endeavors if we conduct ourselves as best as we can according to his will.
I actually am glad brother Ahmad posted this topic, I have been thinking of asking the same thing for soem time now. I have contemplated and imagined this yet to be Nation of Islam. I think it can be done and I even have a few ideas where and how we can do it.
Kurt
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Salam Rumi,
Yeah, I don't consider Shariah Law as Quranic and the true Islamic Law either. I'm just stating that Malaysia have 2 seperate laws. If I'm ever in power, I'll ditch both, gradually replacing it with one universal law - the Quranic Law, applicable to all, regardless of race, and religion.And Salam too to IronSky,
Cool. So it seems that I'm not the only one dreaming of an Islamic Nation, who observes the Quranic Law, advanced in thought, sciences, and research. Have better morality and most importantly - Free!... or is it just my wishful thinking?
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Peace Be Upon You All
For those of you who are for it, can you explain in more detail how this community will be? Visualizing is an excellent tool to realizing a dream. I don't need specifics but the basic structure would be good. And Bro Kurt, its cool that you have concrete ideas. Care to share with us? )
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Easy folks.I voted no as i feel the quran only movement is not mature enough to govern,and is embroiled in disagreeements over fundamental practical issues...
Theocracy always results in dictatorship by clergy/academics,and oppression of minorites and dissenters... -
Peace Be Upon You
Thanks for the link Sis Elke! People were so funny and cute back in 2003 ;D
Not so bitter as some posts these days hypno
There were alot of good ideas, I especially liked Bro Damon's. It's a shame he's not around anymore.
Bro Anwar had some interesting thoughts, a few of which I agree with. It would be interesting to see how his thoughts have evolved now on the subject if any.
Come on folks get some ideas going like that old thread! By the end of the thread I thought I was going to read we bought our first farm and moved to Singapore or something it felt so close to breakthrough! D
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Peace,
We were having the same discussion on Ourbeacon
http//ourbeacon.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=302
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Not to worry Ahmad, sometimes the same things are discussed many times in this forum. Sometimes it can be a good thing, as it gauges the opinion of members today, rather than when it was asked previously.
Out of curiousity, if one were to attempt to establish such a place, how would you go about it step by step wise? 'al quran' discusses this issue heavily.
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I'm just stating that Malaysia have 2 seperate laws.
I see, I didn't quite see the significance of stating this, sorta still don't, thought that it was somehow linked to the "Quranic law" in the country topic. A lot of people put so much faith in Sharia law, claiming it's God's law, without realizing it's origins, it's rulings and how much of it is actually derived from sources not from the Quran but from man. Anyways, glad to know we share a common view yay.
If I'm ever in power, I'll ditch both, gradually replacing it with one universal law - the Quranic Law, applicable to all, regardless of race, and religion.
Well, the elections are said to be coming up soon in Malaysia. Go run for office!!!! Make the difference!!
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Peace to all,
thanks elke, i thought I saw that link before, it just shows there have been others over the year that think the same thing as some of us today, we need our own nation-state. Wakas made some good points in his earlier comments, you cant just buy some land somewhere and start a country, every inch of land in this world is accounted for and controlled by some independent and sovereign nation, Nations do not sell their land to private owners to start new countries. And to try to elect a God aloner in the USA or any other country and try to reform from within is also virtually impossible, we still have to play by their rules, their constitution, etc, their media, they would never give us a fair chance, look at what they do to Ron Paul just for thinking on his own.
It would only be possible if we could start out fresh and new in our own sovereign Nation with our own land base. It would take us a few years to organize and proclaim what our Nation believes and stands for, we would work together and in elected committees to work on key areas, to write a constitution, bylaws, and a legal code, all done according to the Quran where required and according to what we know is right and just where the Quran doesnt specifically state. But the Quran would be the criteria to judge where we dispute.
Anyways, the details can be worked out later, I think what we would need first would be to find some people on this forum or anywhere else that agrees with a few basic beliefs, Do you believe in one God, the same God of all the prophets, of Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, etc, do we believe the Quran is the final and perfect revelation of God, do we believe we should do good deeds to all and help the poor, do we believe we should be honest and truthful at all times, to do Gods will and to worship him alone, to be constant and guarded in out prayers, and maybe a few others I cant think of right now, but with this basic belief we could build on and make progress, to be an example for the world to witness. As we develop and grow we will begin to attract others from all over who want to become part of our new Nation, we will welcome anyone to emigrate as long as they abide by our basic rules and are law abiding. I for one would pray 5 times a day but if someone else decided they only want to pray 3 times then they can, or if someone like Lobster just wants to think about God without actually physically prayin then thats fine too, we will all answer to God according to our own conscience, deeds and intentions.
Finally, I hope to be making the news in the coming months, as some of you know I am a Native American, I live on and Indian reservation and have my entire life. A couple years ago I ran for the Tribal Chairman position and was defeated by only a couple dozen votes. I will be running for the council again soon and if I win, I am planning on taking the oath of office in public using the Quran, I know this is going to shock many people and I will probably make some enemies who are ignorant of it and Islam but I am going to do it. I really think this may be the most important period of my Tribes history. There has never been a people more in need of an entire way of life and religion than the native american. Our entire culture, traditions, religion and race has been almost completely destroyed. The rate of alcoholism, drugs, crime, corruption, and general mental, physical, and spiritual decay of our people is beyond belief. They need God, Islam and the Quran. The traditional beliefs their ancestors had are gone, no one worships or prays to the Great Spirit as our ancestors did, and very few accept christianity, they think it is a white mans relgion imposed by our conquerors, so they have nothing but escapism with intoxicants.
Finally, some of you may know the legal history of Native American Tribes, in case you dont, I am very serious when I say that this is the place to start a new Nation, we already have 90% of the things required for Nation. WE have a land base that is neglected and not used properly, we have a beautiful shoreline on the largest freshwater lake in America, Lake Superior, we have basic infrastructure, utilities, housing government and economic buildings, people, most of whom are not even native Americans by race but only by descent, and most importantly, we are considered a Soveregn Country, we have more rights than the States do in some areas, we signed treaties with the United States government that they must still abide by, so in essence, we have a Nation, with everthing needed to begin and build upon, we have a cookie cutter constitution that was imposed upon us in 1933 but that we can change anytime we want, we have Sovereignty that we have reserved for ourselves for hundreds of years that no one can take away, the only thing we are in need of is people with a will to do good and improve this nation. It is possible, it can be done believe me. I always believed that God would never allow what happened to us and our people to go uncorrected, we all believe that one day God will again give us back the entire country that was stolen from us, but God only helps a people that first changes themselves. This could be the change we need, and the world needs as an example.
Let me know what your thoughts are, if you have doubts in a certain area let me know as im sure I have thoutht them out and can overcome them.
It is a perfect opportunity just waiting for the right people to come in, take over , and transform the world according to Gods will.
Peace,
Kurt
