Our Own Country: please vote thanks
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Funny, I remember something else in the Quranic story, something about a Satan?
I'm sure many of you have seen this mathematical proof, but here to goes again.
Women are the root of evil. It is known that Money is evil.
Women demand Time, and they demand Money.
Time = Money.
Therefore, Women = Money * Money => More Money
Since Money = Evil, then sqrt(Evil) = Women.
Exactly. So the matter is between them and God.
I'd fear God more than I fear 100 lashes...
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Muslim
Book 008, Number 3471Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying Had it not been for Eve, woman would have never acted unfaithfully towards her husband.
Eve cheated on Adam? You mean we are not "banu Adams"? &
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Eve cheated on Adam? You mean we are not "banu Adams"? &
oh my God, Listen please not me!
Huzoor (salla allahu alaihi wa sallam) said that.
And also please dont confuse it, there wasn't any other man beside adam that time. It could only mean wives picking husband's pockets etc...
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PEace Be Upon You Sis Samia
That would be indecent exposure. Usually the police advises them to break it up. If they get belligerent they may get a fine. If they refuse to comply they will be imprisoned for obstruction of justice. nobody gets sued though. and the wife of the cheating husband or the husband of the cheating wife still doesn't sue for adultery. they could get a divorce though.
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Just for clarification
adultery definition might vary to include fornication, but mostly it is voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.
fornication Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other.
indecent exposure Revealing one's genitals under circumstances likely to offend others. Exposure is indecent under the law whenever a reasonable person would or should know that his act may be seen by others--for example, in a public place or through an open window--and that it is likely to cause affront or alarm. Indecent exposure is considered a misdemeanor in most states
salaams, lk
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I've noticed that when the topic is discussed of "quran-alone" Muslims collectively migrating to form an ummah, its frequently done so with the premise of forming of a country. Corrective me if I'm wrong, but "ummah" means "community", not "country". The idea of being able to form a country over-night is extremely unrealistic. I'm all for collective migration, but it would have to start off considerably smaller than a country. For one, no country in the world is going to give up any significant portion of its territory to any group of people to start a new country. Secondly, a "start-up" country made up of citizenry from diverse cultures would have no cohesiveness. Third, it would have no way of protecting itself.
You have to crawl before you can walk. Any ummah formed through collective migration would have to involve purchasing property in an already established country. The government and laws of the "host" country would have to be respected and followed. To some degree, the new ummah could create and enforce it own "rules" on its people. It would have to start off very small, resembling a neighborhood more so than a city, province, or country. Overtime, it would grow, during which time a culture and government would develop through trial and error. Maybe someday its success would draw more people to it, possibly even to the point of it becoming a city, province, or country. But, it may not ever expand beyond being a neighborhood. Regardless of how big it becomes, the fact that it is a sanctuary for people wanting to live under true Qur'anic law is what's important. The goal of forming a "quran-alone" country is indeed very noble. That, however, is a long term goal. Long term goals are met through a series of achieved short term goals.
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Peace Be Upon You Bro Brian
That was a post with remarkable clarity. I agree
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Peace all
brian, i share your view on the meaning of ummah being rather community than country and personally , that is enough for me. BTW a community does not even need to live together in order to form a community.
iron sky, i dont think you answered my questioning concerning your campaign. Could you tell me more ?
elke
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Are you serious? When you lot begin to start agreeing amongst yourselves, then it is one step closer to a pipe dream. Of course, such a thing could be formed where there is a strong will, but it won't happen without unity.
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Are you serious? When you lot begin to start agreeing amongst yourselves, then it is one step closer to a pipe dream. Of course, such a thing could be formed where there is a strong will, but it won't happen without unity.
Salaam OPF
Whom are you addressing please?
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Everyone
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Imagine Qarnayn's (or was he Alexander the great?)decendents lived in this imagined new-country! D
no no no, wait wait wait, i want Malaysia to be that country! hoho
Who cares if the decedents of whoever lived in this imagined country, why would the decedents of whoever really matter? Does it matter to Jordan as a country that the Hashemites Royalty are said to be decedents of the Prophet, are they as a country better and more powerful because of this????
By the way, why do you want Malaysia to be that country??
Malaysia like all countries is a political concept, it's a recent concept too, it Did NOT exist a century ago. Anyways, would you want a Quranite country to exist on the political ideas Malaysia has enshrined??? This would also entail the severe lack of some of our fundamental freedoms, such as freedom of religion as shown recently with Lina Joy? This is Malaysia, where we would rather have hypocrites than let them convert to Christianity. Also in this blessed country, there's discrimination and classification of it's subjects based on race and set definitions of race, it is in the Malaysian constitution, it is the Political Idea of Malaysia as a country, which as ideas go, not very Quranic!
Forget your ideas of a "country", they are man made political ideas and because of this, they are fluid, countries come and go, they evolve, they get annexed, they break up, they aren't permanent. 60 years ago a country called Yugoslavia existed, now it doesn't. Take our region as an example of how fluid countries are, Majapahit, Sriwijaya the Malacca Sultanate, how low did they last? New countries are constantly sprouting, East Timor just emerged!! Who's next, Aceh, Mindanao, Pattani??
God has given us this WORLD, an entire planet, it would be a shame if you were stuck into one little corner of it simply because of some political idea preventing you? We are all decedents of Adam and Eve, our bond is not merely with our tribe or ethnicity, it is with humanity. It's about time we get rid of our notions, political concepts of nationality!!
Concerning the topic, I'm not so sure about creating a new country, too much of a hypothetical dream, lets try to make things do able. How about collectively migrating to an established country?? As Quranites, let's pick a country where our rights and liberties would be protect, by the looks of things around the world, this would mean a country in the West. Then we can work hard within that country to become an influential community or Ummah, from there we can adopt ideals, laws and concepts that are inspired and directed by the Quran.
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peace all,
this post reminded me of an article i read once about a guy who declared his flat in london an independant country and applied to the un for international aid because he was having trouble paying his electricity bill! lol!
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Start_Your_Own_Country
Also if u want your country to join the UN - here is how
http//www.citizensrequired.com/unit/ga_joinun/joinun.shtmlok back to the serious discussion now ........
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Peace, Rumi,
From what you wrote, i understand that we should'nt spiritually attach ourselves to nationality but have to see ourselve and the whole humanity as one. To which you brought up a good point. I have some pride of being a malaysian, i don't understand why yet, but your post has awaken me. so thanks!
Now as to why i would stay in Malaysia than in any other country is NOT because of its structure, but because i understand its system, the culture and the people's mindset better than any other country. If, say i would have migrated to other country, i would need to re-learn, re-search, and re-experience and re-bland/accepted-into the society, before i can start to formulate solutions and strategies in order to penetrate the system and modify it as much as i can.
You said country may come and go, which i agree with, we shouldn't waste time building a new country for the sake of BUILDING A NEW COUNTRY tp show it off to others. Why don't we work within the area by which we are equipped with its data and the "tools" to solve the problems which existed already? Whether God's servants migrate collectively to a country or live in every corner of the world, sooner or later we would have to fight injustices in other parts of the world.
Rumi, Malaysia lacked of fundamental values, but it still has a chance. I believe one of the many ways to mitigate the issues is to reform its education system. I believe if the future generations' minds are rightly guided, they will (inshaallah) naturally see the need to fight against oppression in other parts of the world too. Before that can even happend, we must see the light at the other end of the tunnel. Lina Joy's case saddens me too, but i won't let this take away hope from me.
Education is the "root" of any society.
peace.
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Peace Kurt, all,
I would be interested in any other info that you could offer on your situation. In addition to the questions already asked
How large of a population is on your reservation?
Are there any other Muslim converts aside from yourself?
....On another note, I met a native convert from Canada online a couple of years ago, and she mentioned to me that there were other native Muslim converts that she knew of close to where she lived.
peace
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Peace to all,
David, nope, there are no other Muslims anywhere near where I live, I never even met a "muslim yet". I actually searched pretty hard for awhile to find others and im right next to canada and never found anyone, im not sure who the person was you met or from where.
Someone earlier said it would be silly to try to start a new country from nothing and I agreed that that is impossible, thats why I suggested my proposal, It already is a sovereign nation, with a land base, with a constitution ( i happen to be on the constitution committee now and we are in the process of changing it) we have a population of about 2,000, but only about 1200 actually live on the rez, as I have my entire life. We have a basic infrastructure, buildings, small economy, we make about 4o million a year in revenues, we employ about 800 people most of which are non tribal members. We also have a long history much of which has been forgotten or lost, our tradition and language is virtually dead, our religion is gone, no one practices the traditional native religion of our ancestors and the ones that try dont know what they are supposed to do since its original teachings are lost. Now all we have is a bunch of people who are part Native american, most practice no religion at all, the rest are some form of christianity only by default, since our conquerors gave it to our ancestors its been passed down but no one takes it too seriously. We are a people in dire need of something new and beautiful to restore what we have had taken , destroyed, or lost over the years. Most are either alocoholics, drug addicts, sexually promiscuous, gambling addicts, etc.
It needs a new way of life that I believe Islam can provide, the Quran is the message that my people need and I believe they are longing for without even realizing it.
All we need is some good, honest, truthful people to do some hard work. Anyone can come to our community, anyone can work here, many even live on our rez, so the non members that are infiltrating our community are also slowly tearing us apart, they bring there ways, teachings, traditions, religion, and way of life, we are being displaced with something worse than our own destroyed culture.
Islams the answer,
Muslims Needed
Kurt