Our Own Country: please vote thanks
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Peace Be Upon You Bro Brian
That was a post with remarkable clarity. I agree
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Peace all
brian, i share your view on the meaning of ummah being rather community than country and personally , that is enough for me. BTW a community does not even need to live together in order to form a community.
iron sky, i dont think you answered my questioning concerning your campaign. Could you tell me more ?
elke
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Are you serious? When you lot begin to start agreeing amongst yourselves, then it is one step closer to a pipe dream. Of course, such a thing could be formed where there is a strong will, but it won't happen without unity.
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Are you serious? When you lot begin to start agreeing amongst yourselves, then it is one step closer to a pipe dream. Of course, such a thing could be formed where there is a strong will, but it won't happen without unity.
Salaam OPF
Whom are you addressing please?
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Everyone
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Imagine Qarnayn's (or was he Alexander the great?)decendents lived in this imagined new-country! D
no no no, wait wait wait, i want Malaysia to be that country! hoho
Who cares if the decedents of whoever lived in this imagined country, why would the decedents of whoever really matter? Does it matter to Jordan as a country that the Hashemites Royalty are said to be decedents of the Prophet, are they as a country better and more powerful because of this????
By the way, why do you want Malaysia to be that country??
Malaysia like all countries is a political concept, it's a recent concept too, it Did NOT exist a century ago. Anyways, would you want a Quranite country to exist on the political ideas Malaysia has enshrined??? This would also entail the severe lack of some of our fundamental freedoms, such as freedom of religion as shown recently with Lina Joy? This is Malaysia, where we would rather have hypocrites than let them convert to Christianity. Also in this blessed country, there's discrimination and classification of it's subjects based on race and set definitions of race, it is in the Malaysian constitution, it is the Political Idea of Malaysia as a country, which as ideas go, not very Quranic!
Forget your ideas of a "country", they are man made political ideas and because of this, they are fluid, countries come and go, they evolve, they get annexed, they break up, they aren't permanent. 60 years ago a country called Yugoslavia existed, now it doesn't. Take our region as an example of how fluid countries are, Majapahit, Sriwijaya the Malacca Sultanate, how low did they last? New countries are constantly sprouting, East Timor just emerged!! Who's next, Aceh, Mindanao, Pattani??
God has given us this WORLD, an entire planet, it would be a shame if you were stuck into one little corner of it simply because of some political idea preventing you? We are all decedents of Adam and Eve, our bond is not merely with our tribe or ethnicity, it is with humanity. It's about time we get rid of our notions, political concepts of nationality!!
Concerning the topic, I'm not so sure about creating a new country, too much of a hypothetical dream, lets try to make things do able. How about collectively migrating to an established country?? As Quranites, let's pick a country where our rights and liberties would be protect, by the looks of things around the world, this would mean a country in the West. Then we can work hard within that country to become an influential community or Ummah, from there we can adopt ideals, laws and concepts that are inspired and directed by the Quran.
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peace all,
this post reminded me of an article i read once about a guy who declared his flat in london an independant country and applied to the un for international aid because he was having trouble paying his electricity bill! lol!
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Start_Your_Own_Country
Also if u want your country to join the UN - here is how
http//www.citizensrequired.com/unit/ga_joinun/joinun.shtmlok back to the serious discussion now ........
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Peace, Rumi,
From what you wrote, i understand that we should'nt spiritually attach ourselves to nationality but have to see ourselve and the whole humanity as one. To which you brought up a good point. I have some pride of being a malaysian, i don't understand why yet, but your post has awaken me. so thanks!
Now as to why i would stay in Malaysia than in any other country is NOT because of its structure, but because i understand its system, the culture and the people's mindset better than any other country. If, say i would have migrated to other country, i would need to re-learn, re-search, and re-experience and re-bland/accepted-into the society, before i can start to formulate solutions and strategies in order to penetrate the system and modify it as much as i can.
You said country may come and go, which i agree with, we shouldn't waste time building a new country for the sake of BUILDING A NEW COUNTRY tp show it off to others. Why don't we work within the area by which we are equipped with its data and the "tools" to solve the problems which existed already? Whether God's servants migrate collectively to a country or live in every corner of the world, sooner or later we would have to fight injustices in other parts of the world.
Rumi, Malaysia lacked of fundamental values, but it still has a chance. I believe one of the many ways to mitigate the issues is to reform its education system. I believe if the future generations' minds are rightly guided, they will (inshaallah) naturally see the need to fight against oppression in other parts of the world too. Before that can even happend, we must see the light at the other end of the tunnel. Lina Joy's case saddens me too, but i won't let this take away hope from me.
Education is the "root" of any society.
peace.
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Peace Kurt, all,
I would be interested in any other info that you could offer on your situation. In addition to the questions already asked
How large of a population is on your reservation?
Are there any other Muslim converts aside from yourself?
....On another note, I met a native convert from Canada online a couple of years ago, and she mentioned to me that there were other native Muslim converts that she knew of close to where she lived.
peace
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Peace to all,
David, nope, there are no other Muslims anywhere near where I live, I never even met a "muslim yet". I actually searched pretty hard for awhile to find others and im right next to canada and never found anyone, im not sure who the person was you met or from where.
Someone earlier said it would be silly to try to start a new country from nothing and I agreed that that is impossible, thats why I suggested my proposal, It already is a sovereign nation, with a land base, with a constitution ( i happen to be on the constitution committee now and we are in the process of changing it) we have a population of about 2,000, but only about 1200 actually live on the rez, as I have my entire life. We have a basic infrastructure, buildings, small economy, we make about 4o million a year in revenues, we employ about 800 people most of which are non tribal members. We also have a long history much of which has been forgotten or lost, our tradition and language is virtually dead, our religion is gone, no one practices the traditional native religion of our ancestors and the ones that try dont know what they are supposed to do since its original teachings are lost. Now all we have is a bunch of people who are part Native american, most practice no religion at all, the rest are some form of christianity only by default, since our conquerors gave it to our ancestors its been passed down but no one takes it too seriously. We are a people in dire need of something new and beautiful to restore what we have had taken , destroyed, or lost over the years. Most are either alocoholics, drug addicts, sexually promiscuous, gambling addicts, etc.
It needs a new way of life that I believe Islam can provide, the Quran is the message that my people need and I believe they are longing for without even realizing it.
All we need is some good, honest, truthful people to do some hard work. Anyone can come to our community, anyone can work here, many even live on our rez, so the non members that are infiltrating our community are also slowly tearing us apart, they bring there ways, teachings, traditions, religion, and way of life, we are being displaced with something worse than our own destroyed culture.
Islams the answer,
Muslims Needed
Kurt
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Very interesting jankren. Could you elaborate a little more?
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Peace to all,
ok whatever Jankren, your missing the point, why do we keep bogging ourselves down in trivial details and forget the big picture, evertime someone proposes something new and exciting someone else jumps in and attacks it at the fringes,
maybe its just a dream ive had
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Salaam Ironsky
This is a beauiful dream that most would love if it can be realized
I posted sometime ago some questions. I understand that you were busy responding to other posts and assumed that your replies covered every querry. Well. mine is still there, not yet addressedSalaam Ironsky
This is a very interesting idea, and definitely much better than buying land/island for the obvious reasons you sited.
But I still believe that (correct me if I am wrong) the reservation submits to the federal law of immigration, so you can only have those who are already in America.
Besides, and this is my main point, how would other residents like to have their reservation being a home model for qur'aan alone community? They are the majority. The only way is if they embrace this idea and become quraan aloners/sympathisers themselves. That's how muslim community emerged in its beginning. Or you become yourself the responsible authority and apply the principles of quraan and so they will embrace these principles and we have the community.
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Peace to all,
Sorry Samia, I did forget to respond to you,
Well, yes in a way we do follow the immigration laws with respect to other nations, but internally, once your in america you can enter and live on our rezervation very easily. We actually do have some treaty rights that would allow us to have a seperate foreign policy and different immigration options than other states in america but since we have noone in our community that is aware of these rights or fights for them they are neglected. WE have so many rights and reserved powers as a sovereign that are never used or fought for, there is so much potential to do something good here its hard to believe no one has tried yet.
AS for being a home model for a Quran alone community I didnt mean we would just declare it against the communitys wishes, i meant we would form a community of believers within our community and set an example, we can live, work, marry, raise families and influence others by our deeds, start to teach others that are interested, build a community mosque, etc, give away the Quran and spread the word peacefully,,, believe me, it will spread like wildfire. Eventually we will be the majority, after the truth what is left but falsehood?
We would also organize politically and if elected according to our constittion we can then begin to implement new ideas, we can even re write the constittion to however the majority desires,,,, hopefully we willl have a majority of good people who believe in God,,, if not we will continue to work peacefully until we can be.
I will have more soon,,, law school is kicking my butt right now,
Kurt
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Salams Ironsky
It seems that the same is happening to the native aborigines in Australia.
http//www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/24/093.html
Although I do believe that there are quite a few muslim aborigines, mostly if not all who were propagated to by traditional muslims.