Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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What I understand from your comments is that,
Mohammed was the first WARNER to these people
He is warning the people by narrating the story of Moses.YES
Muhammad was first warner to the people of Meccans, who could narrate the story of Moses, otherwise Ismail and Shoib were also assigned to these people or nearby people, but they could have not narrated the story of Moses to them because they were before Moses.According to you this verse refers to Muhammad as the first Warner because he was the first to tell these people about the story of MOSES?
Yes
?my understanding according to this verse is that HE WAS THE FIRST WARNER FOR THESE PEOPLE and the logic behind the narration of the story of Moses is to convince the people that he is A WARNER assigned by GOD who knows about the past events through WAHI from his lord, beside the lessons they could learn from this story.
YES
- And you were not on this side of the mountain when We called, but a mercy from your Lord that you may WARN a people TO WHOM NO WARNER CAME BEFORE YOU, that they may be mindful.
That is the way Allah talks to his prophet in many other verses as I pointed out.
A Warner can narrate any story/event to warn the people and the above verse doesn?t say "to whom no Warner came before to tell the story of Moses".
You have similar problem as of those who take it verse by verse, Just look at first three Ayats of this particular
Surah and it says the story of Moses is being told.
According to the above verse, the story of Moses has nothing to do with his being the first Warner to these people.
It is not a good way at all to take it verse by verse, read whole Surah and then the verses I pointed out.
For pilgrimage? none of his close family member/decedents i.e. LUT, ISHAQ, YAQOOB, YOUSAF came to Mecca for pilgrimage?
I find it difficult to understand that no messenger for about 2400 years ever tried to come to Mecca to visit the house of lord that was built by Ibrahim?
Strange? how did you came to know this, please provide me the Surah and Ayat number.
Please tell me
He told people to worship one God and not to commit shirk, IS IT NOT WARNING?No! it is an advice.
please tell me where is ismail burried?
Hijr Ismail. This was the location of the house of Prophet Ismael He and his mother are buried here
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Peace Bro Raj-ah
Is it written in the Quran?? how did you came to know this? o
Are you serious? How can it be written in The Quran if it is after the Prophet's death?
If you believe it is, you need to have your head examined, dude...
Does Karbalah ring a bell?, the battle of the Camel, Muawiyah and Ali stand-off, the Two competing Caliphs...
and the the murders of Abu Bakar, Omar, Uthman and Ali... plenty of violence it seems to me...
more damage done to Islam by Muslims than non-Muslims...Allah is currently fighting the so-called Muslims who work in the guise of terrorism and exaggerate in their Deen, otherwise how do you explain that everything they touch turn into disaster, and that our children, women and elderlies day in and day out are killed, raped, brutalized...
How come the tsunami in Indonesia happened in the stronghold of a well known Islamic (read terrorist) group? And don't insult my intelligence by saying it is because we do not follow Sunnah and Hadith enough...
The wrath of Allah on the Muslims is precisely because they are following the Sunnah and Hadith without any consideration for The Quran...
Even if you take some of the so-called latter achievements of Muslims in history, such as the Ottoman Empire, they do not reflect Islamic values... these were Mongol tribes and others who amalgamated after destroying one of the biggest library of knowledge in Baghdad, then went on to do what they knew best, which is invading and taking over nations, using and breeding children to become war machines, Islam was for them a vehicle of destruction. At the same time Europe using better values (Islamic in fact), raised and made use of technological advances to defeat them...
I tell you Brother, if you want to follow Hadith and Sunnah, you should not be using technology, and should be living like the Prophet did in a house made of stone or clay, and not in a block of flats, eating dried dates and hard baked oats (no disrespect to the Prophet)... Let alone using computers, cars, and planes, let's go back to Camels and Donkeys...
At the moment the Muslims are a joke... -
peace Rajah,
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According to the above verse, the story of Moses has nothing to do with his being the first Warner to these people.rajah-It is not a good way at all to take it verse by verse, read whole Surah and then the verses I pointed out.
Because I don?t agree with your understanding doesn?t mean that I haven?t read the whole Sura. if we all understand/interpret Quran/surah/verses in a similar manner, there wouldn't be any disagreements.
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For pilgrimage? none of his close family member/decedents i.e. LUT, ISHAQ, YAQOOB, YOUSAF came to Mecca for pilgrimage?I find it difficult to understand that no messenger for about 2400 years ever tried to come to Mecca to visit the house of lord that was built by Ibrahim?
rajah-Strange? how did you came to know this, please provide me the Surah and Ayat number.
Because there is no surah or verse or any other evidence which says that they came to Mecca for pilgrimage, that is the reason why I am skeptical, so if you are familiar with any please do quote them.
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Please tell me
He told people to worship one God and not to commit shirk, IS IT NOT WARNING?
rajah-No! it is an advice.Advice?
He smashed their idols? He was thrown into fire??.those who only advice doesn?t go to that limit.And certainly We gave to Ibrahim his rectitude before, and We knew him fully well. 2151.
When he said to his father and his people What are these images to whose worship you cleave? 2152.
They said We found our fathers worshipping them. 2153.
He said Certainly you have been, (both) you and your fathers, in manifest error. 2154.
They said Have you brought to us the truth, or are you one of the triflers? 2155.
He said Nay! your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who brought them into existence, and I am of those who bear witness to this 2156.
And, by Allah! I WILL CERTAINLY DO SOMETHING AGAINST YOUR IDOLS after you go away, turning back. 2157
So HE BROKE THEM INTO PIECES, except the chief of them, that haply they may return to it. 2158.And (We sent) Ibrahim, when he said to his people Serve Allah and be careful of (your duty to) Him; this is best for you, if you did but know 2916.
You only worship idols besides Allah and YOU CREATE A LIE surely they whom you serve besides Allah do not control for you any sustenance, therefore seek the sustenance from Allah and serve Him and be grateful to Him; to Him you shall be brought back. 2917.
And if you reject (the truth), nations before you did indeed reject (the truth); and nothing is incumbent on the messenger but a plain delivering (of the message). 2918.
What! do they not consider how Allah originates the creation, then reproduces it? Surely that is easy to Allah. 2919.
Say Travel in the earth and see how He makes the first creation, then Allah creates the latter creation; surely Allah has power over all things. 2920.
He punishes whom He pleases and has mercy on whom He pleases, and to Him you shall be turned back. 2921.
And YOU SHALL NOT ESCAPE IN THE EARTH NOR IN THE HEAVEN, and you have neither a protector nor a helper besides Allah. 2922.
And (as to) those who disbelieve in the communications of Allah and His meeting, they have despaired of My mercy, and these IT IS THAT SHALL HAVE A PAINFUL PUNISHMENT. 2923.
So naught was the answer of his people except that they said SLAY HIM OR BURN HIM; then Allah delivered him from the fire; most surely there are signs in this for a people who believe. 2924.
And he said "For you, ye have taken (for worship) idols besides Allah, out of mutual love and regard between yourselves in this life; but on the Day of Judgment ye shall disown each other and curse each other and YOUR ABODE WILL BE THE FIRE, and ye shall have none to help."2925.According to my understanding these verses convey some advice but the rest is clear cut WARNING.
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please tell me where is ismail burried?raja-Hijr Ismail. This was the location of the house of Prophet Ismael He and his mother are buried here
Please can you quote any verse in support?
Abraham was buried by his sons, Isaac and Ishmael - Gen 258-9
This is a proof that Ismail cant be living far away from Hebron.
peace
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Peace Bro Raj-ah
Are you serious? How can it be written in The Quran if it is after the Prophet's death?
If you believe it is, you need to have your head examined, dude...
Does Karbalah ring a bell?, the battle of the Camel, Muawiyah and Ali stand-off, the Two competing Caliphs...
and the the murders of Abu Bakar, Omar, Uthman and Ali... plenty of violence it seems to me...
more damage done to Islam by Muslims than non-Muslims...Allah is currently fighting the so-called Muslims who work in the guise of terrorism and exaggerate in their Deen, otherwise how do you explain that everything they touch turn into disaster, and that our children, women and elderlies day in and day out are killed, raped, brutalized...
How come the tsunami in Indonesia happened in the stronghold of a well known Islamic (read terrorist) group? And don't insult my intelligence by saying it is because we do not follow Sunnah and Hadith enough...
The wrath of Allah on the Muslims is precisely because they are following the Sunnah and Hadith without any consideration for The Quran...
Even if you take some of the so-called latter achievements of Muslims in history, such as the Ottoman Empire, they do not reflect Islamic values... these were Mongol tribes and others who amalgamated after destroying one of the biggest library of knowledge in Baghdad, then went on to do what they knew best, which is invading and taking over nations, using and breeding children to become war machines, Islam was for them a vehicle of destruction. At the same time Europe using better values (Islamic in fact), raised and made use of technological advances to defeat them...
I tell you Brother, if you want to follow Hadith and Sunnah, you should not be using technology, and should be living like the Prophet did in a house made of stone or clay, and not in a block of flats, eating dried dates and hard baked oats (no disrespect to the Prophet)... Let alone using computers, cars, and planes, let's go back to Camels and Donkeys...
At the moment the Muslims are a joke...Good analysis bravo
peace
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Peace all ? anything on Medina and person buried there?
http//www.deenislam.co.uk/gallery/artefacts/Rauza-e-Rasool2.jpg
In what city were the first Uthman Qur?ans standardized and sent out?
http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4581684.stm
http//www.answering-christianity.com/quran/noble_quran_mss1.jpg
Did Mecca and Medina pop up suddenly out of the desert for no reason?
According to some of your theories; after Qur?an was revealed (in wherever place that was) within a generation the pagans took over, reverted, and concocted over a million hadith stories making Mecca and Medina the center of it all while at the same time preserving Qur?an and spreading Islam throughout the lands ? makes no sense.
Peace
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In what city were the first Uthman Qur?ans standardized and sent out?
http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4581684.stm
Did Mecca and Medina pop up suddenly out of the desert for no reason?
How come Osman collected the qur'aan on normal paper whereas a few years earlier it was supposedly written on camel bones, stones, wood...etc? Did paper pop up suddenly?
while at the same time preserving Quran and spreading Islam throughout the lands makes no sense.
Peace
What kind of Islam did they spread? Religion was an excellent tool to control people. Why would they destroy it?
As for Qur'aan, no thanks to them. God took it on Himself to preserve it. -
Its very common hadith that prophet said For the sake of knowledge you can go to china, or he said something like that. And we know that in china people used to make papers long before CE. How did prophet know that china is very advanced country? So Probably in the light of that hadith Usman imported papers from china. We shouldn't be sceptical if the other satisfying options are there.
May God increase our knowledge.
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How come Osman collected the qur'aan on normal paper whereas a few years earlier it was supposedly written on camel bones, stones, wood...etc? Did paper pop up suddenly?
No ?etc? also included paper (papyrus was around since 3000 bc) and deerskin like this Qur?an...
http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4581684.stm
What kind of Islam did they spread? Religion was an excellent tool to control people. Why would they destroy it?
There's only one Islam of the "There is no compulsion in religion..." kind; belief is a conviction of the mind else Moguls who after conquering ?them? would never have converted if there wasn?t something convincing in the message.
As for Qur'aan, no thanks to them. God took it on Himself to preserve it.
Yes, through them! How else?
What exactly is your point; that there were no hardcopies of Qur?an?
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Peace Nun de plume,
How long did it take for the people of Moses to start worshipping the golden calf during his absence?
Not more then few days or weeks? And that happened in the presence of Prophet Aaron.
If Moses hadn?t returned, what would have been the scenario then?
How come Osman collected the qur'aan on normal paper whereas a few years earlier it was supposedly written on camel bones, stones, wood...etc? Did paper pop up suddenly?
why did he burned the other copies of quran?
peace
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Its very common hadith that prophet said For the sake of knowledge you can go to china, or he said something like that. And we know that in china people used to make papers long before CE. How did prophet know that china is very advanced country? So Probably in the light of that hadith Usman imported papers from china. We shouldn't be sceptical if the other satisfying options are there.
May God increase our knowledge.
I am not surprised at the qur'aan being in paper. I am rather surprised at the qur'aan claimed to be written at the time of the prophet on skin, bone, stone...anything but paper. Papyrus was around hundreds or thousands years earlir, just near them there in Egypt.
I am referring to what's in the link by Nun, not just the post.
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Its very common hadith that prophet said For the sake of knowledge you can go to china, or he said something like that. And we know that in china people used to make papers long before CE. How did prophet know that china is very advanced country? So Probably in the light of that hadith Usman imported papers from china. We shouldn't be sceptical if the other satisfying options are there.
May God increase our knowledge.
In 751 A.D. the Arabs occupying Samarkand were attacked by the Chinese - in repelling the invasion certain prisoners were taken who were skilled in paper-making. The paper-making art then spread westwards following the caravan routes. It reached Egypt in the 10th Century.
http//origami.kvi.nl/lists/history.htmpeace
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papyrus? chinese had high quality hemp paper... any long distance trade would provide merchants with it... and if they had silk... well as far as i know the best silk came along the silk road from china... i don't know much about silk, it makes me too sweaty
that is of course if they really had silk... it is mentioned in hadith... but so are flying horses taking people to foreign cities
OPF - oh are you the sarcastic type? sorry i didn't get it the first time around P
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What kind of an idiot writes THAT BIG??
rotfl
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Peace Rajah,
Surely you will go for Hajj one day and that will be Kaaba in Mecca, as soon you will realize that KAABA is the place in Mecca for HAjj, it was Corrupted at the times of Abraham, and Abraham purified it, It was Corrupted during times of Muhammad and Muhammad purified it by bringing down all the idols, and it is corrupted now by the present Administrators and we have to purify it YES! but that does not mean we start making our own KAABA, which is not visible since last 1400 years and neither do you have any clue for it.
There is no authentic evidence for the part of your quote in red apart from unverifiable hearsays. There is no evidence of Abraham or Muhammad having ever come to what is now known as Mecca. According to evidence from al-qur'aan, Muhammad was located near the Dead Sea area and migrated to what is now called Medina, hence the "kaaba"/base was most likely near those locations.
After Muhammad's death, the arab pagan hypocrites renamed their pagan temple Kaaba after the common noun "kaaba"/heel/base in al-qur'aan and renamed the insignificant town containing this pagan temple Mecca after the common noun "makka(t)"/destruction/wearing down in al-qur'aan so that they can resume their pagan practices while pretending to be following al-qur'aan.
If you still insist on performing "7ajj" at Mecca, then I agree that we need to purify that location of all the filthy pagan idols and pagan practices. Once that location is purified, and it satisfies all the criteria of "albayt alharaam" as given in al-qur'aan, then I have no problem going there to participate in "7ajj", because its location can be ANYWHERE where no partners are set up with The God (2226).
- First of all I don't think so that present administrators are setting up any partners with Allah; and even if they do (that is only if you can provide any solid evidence for it), that is what they are doing and our duty is to convey them the true message of Quran, but changing of KAABA and trying to find a new one just because administrators are doing any thing wrong is not justified at all.
The present so called Kaaba in Mecca is an exact replica of the cuboid stone idols that symbolise gods and goddesses of the pagans. It contains a black stone in a dilated vulva shaped enclosure precisely aligned with winter sunrise, signifying the birth of their sun-god. It is also veiled in black cloth, just like the pagans used to veil the representations of their goddesses in black dresses. There is also a footprint idol with a floral motif in its vicinity which symbolises good fortune according to pagan mythology. Pagan rituals and practices such as mindlessly spinning seven times around the pagan temple and kissing the black stone are incorporated in "7ajj". Anyone who builds such idols and allows pagan practices to be continued in the guise of "7ajj" is indeed setting up partners with The God.
How are you going to convince those administrators to destroy all idols and abolish all pagan practices when they are deliberately doing it despite knowing such things cannot be found in al-qur'aan ? Do you really think they do not know the true message of al-qur'aan ?
- Again that is a mistake by the present administartion and what effect does it make on KAABA being the House.
The effect it has is that when ALL PEOPLE are not allowed to come to Mecca, one of the qur'aanic criteria of the house is not fulfilled, thus disqualifying it as "albayt alharaam" mentioned in al-qur'aan.
- They should and if they are not doing the Job properly they are responsible for the consequences and we have to inform the people about it, but this again doesnot allows us to call all the historical and geographical, literary evidences just as hearsay.
Even when that "historical" and "literary" evidence contradicts the qur'aanic and archeological evidence ?
a) Kissing of stone A hadith tells us ; when asked by a fellow Umar replied I only kiss the Stone because Muhammad kissed it and Allah did not asked to do it.
Those who believe in Hadith even after reading this HAdith kiss the stone, we should give them awareness rather calling them Idol lovers and MUSHRIKS etc.Anyone who engages in any pagan practice is indeed an idol lover and sets up partners with The God. I agree that we need to convey to such people that setting up partners with The God is forbidden according to His message.
b) Foot print If there is any foot print why does it bother you, no one is kissing it, no one is worshipping it, they are just praying two Rakats behind that place known as station of Ibraheem.
According to al-qur'aan, The "maqam" of Abraham is supposed to be located IN the "kaaba" (397) and not "near" or "outside" it.
A more pressing question that presents itself "What do footprints in a rock have anything to do with the functions of "7ajj" and the calling of all people?"
Such footprints are not unique or special but are typically what we find for fertility idols. According to pagan mythology, good fortune and flowers spring up in the footprints of the idol. Thus, you find such prints next to the fertility idol's sanctuary. If you look closely at the pagan footprint idols inside the so called "Maqam Ibrahim", you will see the flower motif all the way around it. Such filthy stuff has nothing to do with Abraham or al-qur'aan. Please see the following link for pictures and details
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg112329#msg112329
Instead of defending it, shouldn't you follow the example of Abraham? If you really believe that Mecca is the location of the house, shouldn't you be purifying the place from such filthy pagan idols instead of finding excuses for them ? Where in al-qur'aan are we asked to pray 2 rakats behind a place called Maqam Ibrahim containing footprint idols ? What is the difference between praying towards an idol and praying to it ?
c) Cuboidal building So what kind of House do you need? a Square a rectangle or a circle? it is the way it was built and has been rennovated again and again, it has to be of some shape, why your anger is at cuboid?
Because we know from Nabatean archeological evidence that the physical representations of their pagan gods and goddesses were in the form of cuboid stone idols with height greater than width, and the current so called Kaaba is an exact replica of such cuboidal stone idols.
Please see the folowing link for pictures and details
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg112065#msg112065
- I don't see any body fighting over there.
What about a terrorist attack and takeover by some 200 armed Islamic fundamentalist dissidents against the Saudi ruling family, at Al-Masjid Al-Haram in Mecca ? What about the 1987 massacre of Iranian pilgrims during 7ajj in Mecca ? What about the serious incidents during the 7ajj that have led to the loss of hundreds of lives as given in the following article
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj
Do you really think ALL PEOPLE, including Jews, Christians, Hindus etc., will be able to assemble safely in Mecca during 7ajj in the present conditions ?
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Salam.
I don't know who built it but inshaALLAH i would like to go there and ask them. Now, circling the thing is a whole other deal. I'm a little curious about those inhabitants there, are they friendly? Because i have heard some people here say that sometimes bad guys inflitrate there to cause trouble, steal and make Islam look bad.
Peace.