Allah? really a name?was it?
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Salaam Elke, Anwar...All
I do not think grammar was derived from the qur'aan nor confirmed by it. Arabic grammar as we were taught is more complicted than that of the qur'aan. Example is the dual rule, which is hardly recognized in the qur'aan, or the definition of plurals as human and non human. And most important the existance in the qur'aan of the specific feminine, contrary to linguistics rules of all languages, including Arabic.
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Allah is not an actual name of the Lord of our creations but capitalized from constricting "al" (the) and "illah" (god) to become Allah (The God), emphasizing the magnanimity of a Creator of the worlds via the figment of our imagination. It is relevant to one's thought process and significant to our moral, ethical and spiritual values as dictated by signs of circumstance and nature, without which man would remain savage.
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Salaams genteel,
try to put "the God"
in these sentances and see- does it make sense.
We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
We have sent down to thee the Book in truth, that thou mightest judge between men, as guided by Allah so be not (used) as an advocate by those who betray their trust;
No its not the God - i think.
God Bless.
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Peace mz,
I'm not sure if I'm understanding your point and would appreciate if you could elaborate a little. Thanks.
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Salaams Br,
you sugested
We have sent down to thee the Book in truth, that thou mightest judge between men, as guided by THE GOD so be not (used) as an advocate by those who betray their trust;
Other sugestion
We have sent down to thee the Book in truth, that thou mightest judge between men, as guided by Their bond so be not (used) as an advocate by those who betray their trust;
This is what am making of it - but need a little more investigatio'n.
Looks as though you haven't read the thread - might be helpful.
Alla-Hi = Bond-His/Her/Their.
I think.
Salaams.
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Alla-Hi = Bond-His/Her/Their.
Hmmm, mz, this is news for me and not sure what to make out of this but seems quite far-fetched and disarrayed. In that verse, it is allahu and not allahi and to mean "(his/her/their) bond" as suggested by you does not sit well throughout the Quran. Just some thoughts!
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Hmmm, mz, this is news for me and not sure what to make out of this but seems quite far-fetched and disarrayed. In that verse, it is allahu and not allahi and to mean "(his/her/their) bond" as suggested by you does not sit well throughout the Quran. Just some thoughts!
Yes it is far-fetched as you say - but so-sorry that it is making more sense in certain verses then previously.
but thats all for now.
God's Blessings on you.
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Peace progod
So it is a fallacy for someone to think that just because Fushaa 2000 years ago was a commonly spoken langauge that it didn't have grammar, and that that grammar had to be constructed. No. The fixing of grammar is correctly the fixing of all usages of a current language, recording it and sticking to it as a standard of expression.
I agree with the above. Grammar exists, but it evolves. What i meant was that the rules had not been "officially" fixed and that the quranic language has been the starting point for some of this "writing" down of grammatical rules.
...and thank you for making me a noble... don't know if i deserve it though
lk
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Peace,
yeah anwar... wasn't there a time for many of us that islam without hadith was far fetched? now look at us P
Aaron, what are you talking about? nope My post didn't have anything do to with anything being far-fetched. Are you that eager to respond to me or was this just a simple mistake?
That was actually Genteels post
Alla-Hi = Bond-His/Her/Their.
Hmmm, mz, this is news for me and not sure what to make out of this but seems quite far-fetched and disarrayed. In that verse, it is allahu and not allahi and to mean "(his/her/their) bond" as suggested by you does not sit well throughout the Quran. Just some thoughts!And what's up with teh sticking your tongue at me for like the last 5 posts? yuck ;D
Lastly,
To Mz. Your ideas are based off of the Quran not using vowels or other written indicators for pronunciation in the past.
Like I've always maintained the Quran was mainly preserved orally and the old Arabic scripts were highly deficient scripts that could not determine the difference between a z and a r, a dhaw and a taww, a dhal and a dal, a qaf and a fa or a seen and a sheen let alone be efficient in how to write vowels. So if your basing your ideas off of old Quranic texts, don't count me in. The same word Ill is written in other places in the Quran without writing two lams. The Quran is a conglomeration of spelling conventions that often tried to take into account the origin of the words, through spelling. If we see the word izdilaaf and many other words whose pronunciation dramatically changes due to certain forms are written that way and then given signs like the shaddah to indicate that the word is elided, etc.Again, do what you will. However, the basis of your idea from which you've derived this one is wrong and inconsistent with the use of letters in the Quran, particularly the word ill.
Gobless,
Anwar -
Salaams Anwar,
Like I've always maintained the Quran was mainly preserved orally and the old Arabic scripts were highly deficient scripts that could not determine the difference between a z and a r, a dhaw and a taww, a dhal and a dal, a qaf and a fa or a seen and a sheen let alone be efficient in how to write vowe
No knowledge is ever preserved orally, and that is why written method for preserving is utilised - and that is why the quran has been preserved because it was written down - i think.
There isn't a single school on the face of the planet where the quran is passed orally but it will be memorised from a written copy.
I do think these shaddah's might have something to do with the mistrans as well as they where added years after the written qurans.
Thanks.
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Yes it is far-fetched as you say - but so-sorry that it is making more sense in certain verses then previously
that's a quote of you agreeing that it is far fetched but beginning to make more sense in certain verses
so your post did have something to do with something being far fetched - otherwise the words far fetched would never have appeared in your post
oh oh... here it comes -
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Peace MZ
No knowledge is ever preserved orally, and that is why written method for preserving is utilised - and that is why the quran has been preserved because it was written down - i think.
There isn't a single school on the face of the planet where the quran is passed orally but it will be memorised from a written copy.
I do think these shaddah's might have something to do with the mistrans as well as they where added years after the written qurans.
This is where I'll have to disagree. I've heard of other stories having been handed down orally and preserved. If I come accross some example I'll let you know. When you have a class of reciters than this is easily done. The Quran was preserved firstly by the graces of God and secondly by the memorization efforts of people and by scribes hands (however early Arabic would still have allowed for the Quran to be corrupted heavily had it not been for the memorization efforts). THe Quran until recently was 80 percent orally preserved.
As for the shaddahs being the root of mistransalation I have to disagree again. Here I think this is you overcompensating for lack of knowledge on the subject.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Godbless,
Anwar -
"God", or our idea of god, cannot have a name!
Even pets and people have names, but how an immeasurable creating cosmic force could have a name? ???YHWH means, in the the inside permutation of the letters -present, past and future-, which means that "god" is not a material thing (which is limited by time), so, since being immaterial cannot have a name.
In Judaism, it is not out of respect that the "name" is not pronounced, but because it is logically obvious that a Supreme Eternal One Whatever-you-wanna-describe-it has no name!
I don't know what Allah is...
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Peace all,
A name is an appellation of a thing.
God, in English, is the appellation of that Thing which granted the existence of this very discussion, the Thing that causes water to descend from the sky, the Thing that has dispersed on earth multitudes of insects, mammals, and plants, the Thing that sends human messengers to humans to warn them of a day of requittal, the Thing that revealed so clear a book to Muhammad, the Thing that has guided us to the straight path.
In Arabic, the appellation of that Thing is .
It wouldn't be correct to think of human languages as being inherent to the charecteristics of God, these are simply names that we as humans use to identify that Thing.
Peace
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...that Thing? ???
now god is reduced to a thing?
funny though...