Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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peace Rajah,
Rajah- Abraham was buried by Isaac and Ismail, how does this proves that Isamail cannot be living far away from Hebron??
When Abraham died, his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him together in the cave of Machpelah that he bought from Ephron the son Zohar the Hittite (Gen 258-9).
This grave is acknowledged by Muslims to be under the Mosque of Abraham in Hebron. since Ishmail was not living with Ibrahim when Ibrahim died, so Ishaq had to send a messenger to Ishmail (in Paran) to inform him.
If Ishmael was living in Mecca How many days it would have taken for a messenger from Hebron to Mecca and for Ishmael to make it to Hebron? The body of Abraham will be rotting very badly by then.
Unless Ishaq had a cell phone to inform Ismail about the death of their father and Ismail had a chopper service or a land cruiser ready to take him to Hebron?.I don?t think he would have made it to Hebron from Mecca in time to attend his father?s funeral either on foot or on a horse.
So it is more probable that Paran was just at the southern boundary of Canaan, from where Ishmail could make it within a day or two?Rajah- 2121 And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.
"Paran = 'two who migrated'"
Where is Paran located??
And wilderness = wastelands; forest; desert; range; back country; uninhabited region; garden for wild growth; wild or disordered state, jumble, confusing multitude
Should have been somewhere near Hebron?
http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/wildernessofparan-1.jpg
The biblical wilderness of Paran is partly in the Sinai Peninsula, including the city of Kadesh (Num. 1326) at its northern end. Kadesh Barnea is an identifiable place seen on most maps. Joshua 153 tells us that it is part of the border of the tribe of Judah. In particular, Paran was a wilderness territory, not a city, bordering to the south of Judah (1 Sam 251-5), which itself is the southern-most tribe of Israel.
Mecca is far removed from Judah and Kadesh-Barnea.
Why would Ibrahim banish his son so far away from him?
Rajah- Mount Paran is the chain of mountains in that same region which the Arabs call the "Sarawat Mountains". Muhammad (pbuh) received his first revelation in the cave of "Hira'a" located in these mountains.
Mount paran is the chain of mountains in kharian, Punjab. Which the local Punjabi call Pubbian ;D
The Arabs can call it what ever they like?.it serves their purpose .
There are people who say ?Murree? the hill station near Islamabad is named after Mary ?mother of Jesus? and she is buried there?.there is a Kadam gah of Ali in haiderabad, sind??.there is a foot print of Mohammed in ?Pakpattan??.there is a place kohkaf near ?Chitral? where they say the fairies live?am I to believe all this without any solid evidence?
rajah- Even in those times people travelled a lot.
We know that ancient people (and even modern people) people move pretty often.Abraham's father, Terah moved his family from Ur to Haran (Genesis 1131). Abraham and Lot moved from Haran to Canaan (Genesis 124-5). Due to famine, he moved to Egypt (Genesis 1210). In history, once a group of people gets too large, they moved. We see this happening between Abraham and Lot (Genesis 136-1 (See this map for Abraham's journeys). They also moved because of the environment. Famine caused Abraham to go to Egypt (Genesis 1210), Isaac to go to the Philistines (Genesis 261) and Jacob's family to go to Egypt (Genesis 43). People also moved because of political reasons as people gets displaced. Aren't the Arabs originally nomadic tribes, who excelled in caravan trade?
So it rather confirms that Ismail lived and settled in Paran "Makkah" and he and his Dad Abraham built the KAABA THAT IS IN MECCA!
Not According to 2846, 323, and 366 ?.. no Warner/messenger were sent to the Meccans and their fore fathers before Mohammad.
http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/ibrahimjourney.jpg
Map of Ibrahim's journey.People did migrate?but that migration didn?t happened in hours or day?.it took them months and years and some times generations to move from one place to the other depending upon the distances.
Ibrahim was 89 years old when Ismail was born and 99 when Ishaq was born, Ismael and hagar were banished few years after the birth of Ishaq.
Now please tell me ?did Ibrahim and ismail come to Mecca for the construction of kaaba before the birth of Ishaq? Or after he has banished hagar and ismail? ?..and why Mecca?
Mecca - Situated in the rocky foothills of the Hijaz Mountains, Mecca has a hot, arid climate, and lack of water and other resources have kept its population and economic fortunes heavily dependent on outside factors.
Medina - It is situated in a well-watered oasis where fruit, dates, vegetables, and grain are raised.
http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/arabia.jpg
Mecca is 1232 Km from Jerusalem.People usually migrate and settle at places which are better then the place of their origin?coming from the north toward Mecca they had to pass by Medina an oasis in the desert and 400 km shorter in distance then Mecca ?.what was so special about Mecca that made them travel so far?
Even when hagar and Ismail were banished and if they traveled toward the south, Medina would have been the ideal place for them to dwell.
rajah- This further confirms that the House of Allah existed even before Muhammad and Jesus in the Arab and all the historical evidences lead us to "Paran" MAKKAH" "BAKKAH" located in present day Saudi.
Wonder why? Jesus, Zikria or Yahya were least interested in this house of Allah
peace
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Peace
To those who say that claims on this web-site mean that the Arabs re-wrote their history do not get it.
The Arabs never wrote any of their history until well after the Prophets death, and then these were based on collections of chains of narrations going back to the Prophet or his Companions well after 200 years...
Up to those latter years, nothing was collected, (or if you want to believe in some hadiths, it was ordered by the Prophet and his Companions that all accounts on his life be destroyed), and no effort was made to make a cohesive story about what happened in the region...
Overall I do not have many problems with Hadith, I just do not accept them as a source of law, divine guidance, or even accurate historical accounts, The Quran is far from enough from me, and if I would follow most it says, I will be very pious indeed...
For the question who built the Kaabah, the obvious answer is The Saudis, and that's the end of it.
Is it Maqam Ibrahim, I have no idea...
By the way, sorry if I offended your fragile ego Rajah, I have to tell you though, Ahmed Bhaggat taught you well, you follow his rules of engagement to the tee ) -
Unless Ishaq had a cell phone to inform Ismail about the death of their father and Ismail had a chopper service or a land cruiser ready to take him to Hebron.I dont think he would have made it to Hebron from Mecca in time to attend his fathers funeral either on foot or on a horse.
So it is more probable that Paran was just at the southern boundary of Canaan, from where Ishmail could make it within a day or two?Correction Ever heard of Buraq? We shouldn't be sceptical if possible explanations are there. Alhamdulillah
Ibrahim was 89 years old when Ismail was born and 99 when Ishaq was born, Ismael and hagar were banished few years after the birth of Ishaq.
Now please tell me did Ibrahim and ismail come to Mecca for the construction of kaaba before the birth of Ishaq? Or after he has banished hagar and ismail? ..and why Mecca?
Correction again A prophet has more power than a normal human being SubhanAllah doubts should be clear now.....Please know about Buraq that is very swift. Alhamdulillah
People usually migrate and settle at places which are better then the place of their origincoming from the north toward Mecca they had to pass by Medina an oasis in the desert and 400 km shorter in distance then Mecca .what was so special about Mecca that made them travel so far?
Even when hagar and Ismail were banished and if they traveled toward the south, Medina would have been the ideal place for them to dwell.
I dont know from where you people read history....okey let me tell.........kaaba was first built by Baba Adam Saheb......now Allah told Ibrahim to rebuilt it. SA is also an oil rich country..that is another sepecial thing about mecca. Like I said before bros we shouldn't be sceptical when all the satisfying answers are there. Alhamdulillah. May god accept our humble efforts. Amin
Ah, sorry I have to come again to clear one more doubt
Wonder why? Jesus, Zikria or Yahya were least interested in this house of Allah Wink
This is another misconception that they never visited. We should only say Allah never told us if they visited! But alhamdulillah as a Muslim we all believe that they all definitely visited it for sure with great passion. MashaAllah.
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Correction Ever heard of Buraq? We shouldn't be sceptical if possible explanations are there. Alhamdulillah
Correction again A prophet has more power than a normal human being SubhanAllah doubts should be clear now.....Please know about Buraq that is very swift. Alhamdulillah
I wonder where this "burraq" was at the time of Mohammed's hijrat to Medina confused
peace
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Correction Ever heard of Buraq? We shouldn't be sceptical if possible explanations are there. Alhamdulillah
Correction again A prophet has more power than a normal human being SubhanAllah doubts should be clear now.....Please know about Buraq that is very swift. Alhamdulillah
For the past 1400 years of observation, nobody has noted any horses racing like a nutter. While it is very possible that Ishmael had a car (how else would you explain knowledge of the big bang and all that jazz?), it is unlikely as history shows.
Why is it that you see a rational explanation - Ismail and Ishaq were localised and that is how they got into contact - and substitute it for a flying unicorn?!?! Am I missing something?
"Correction again A prophet has more power than a normal human being"
Cite a Quranic verse? I recall reading many stating that the prohets were "men like yourselves"... Maybe you have a specific verse...
Of course, that does not mean what you said is irrational - we're talking prophets here. Just less possible.
AgentXXX, let me introduce to you a concept that will most likely invalidate the interpretation of the Quranic verses you cited - time. As time tends towards increasing, people tend towards changing. Now, over a significantly long period, i.e. 630 years, would you say the same people inhabited Makkah as they did before? In other words, when God says "people to whom no warner came before", it could simply mean that so many generations passed, that all knowledge of the previous warners died completely.
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"Correction again A prophet has more power than a normal human being"
Cite a Quranic verse? I recall reading many stating that the prohets were "men like yourselves"... Maybe you have a specific verse...
You are just jealous, Alhamdulillah Bukhari and Muslim told us that prophets have more power.
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You are just jealous, Alhamdulillah Bukhari and Muslim told us that prophets have more power.
Bukhari (PBUH)? Oh, OK, I see. Thanks for the overwhelming evidence.
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AgentXXX, let me introduce to you a concept that will most likely invalidate the interpretation of the Quranic verses you cited - time. As time tends towards increasing, people tend towards changing. Now, over a significantly long period, i.e. 630 years, would you say the same people inhabited Makkah as they did before? In other words, when God says "people to whom no warner came before", it could simply mean that so many generations passed, that all knowledge of the previous warners died completely.
Then prophet mohammed is also not descendant of Ibrahim!
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I wonder where this "burraq" was at the time of Mohammed's hijrat to Medina confused
peace
Ever heard of workshop?
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Then prophet mohammed is also not descendant of Ibrahim!
I didn't mean that...
I meant that supposing a warner came to those in Makkah, or Jerusalem, or Mars, over 600 years, the knowledge of such a warner could possibly be lost, hence the Quranic verses cited could not be used to prove/disprove anything in this specific reference frame.
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I didn't mean that...
I meant that supposing a warner came to those in Makkah, or Jerusalem, or Mars, over 600 years, the knowledge of such a warner could possibly be lost, hence the Quranic verses cited could not be used to prove/disprove anything in this specific reference frame.
The knowledge in the memories of people could lost but Allah never forgets. Why did god says no warner has come to their forefathers 366 ? Did god forget? Astaghfirullahi 3theem.
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The knowledge in the memories of people could lost but Allah never forgets. Why did god says no warner has come to their forefathers 366 ? Did god forget? Astaghfirullahi 3theem.
God does not forget, I forget though. The word "fathers" was pretty bloody invisible to me! Sorry, my bad.
But if you are to use this verse in such a way, it would imply that Muhammad was based in Makkah, but Jerusalem was the "bayt-al-haram"?
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God does not forget, I forget though. The word "fathers" was pretty bloody invisible to me! Sorry, my bad.
np, its good you realised it.
But if you are to use this verse in such a way, it would imply that Muhammad was based in Makkah, but Jerusalem was the "bayt-al-haram"?
We can investigate this further.......but we are sure now that no warner ever came to them before....
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Peace
Just to clarify... most of the oil/gas resources in the Hejaz are in the eastern provinces, and the hejaz has only been SA until recently with the Wahabi Saudi family take-over...
Lets steer clear from magic please..., and I do not wish to get into an argument about Djinns either -
Peace
Just to clarify... most of the oil/gas resources in the Hejaz are in the eastern provinces, and the hejaz has only been SA until recently with the Wahabi Saudi family take-over...
Lets steer clear from magic please..., and I do not wish to get into an argument about Djinns eitherOk if no oil then what about Zam-Zam water? Isn't it also a special thing of mecca? You cannot misguide innocent muslims.Alhamdulillah.
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Ok if no oil then what about Zam-Zam water? Isn't it also a special thing of mecca?
Is there empirical evidence to it having any intrinsic value, or nutrition, or, well, anything, aside from a few randomly narrated stories of it having cured cancer, AIDS, etc?
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Is there empirical evidence to it having any intrinsic value, or nutrition, or, well, anything, aside from a few randomly narrated stories of it having cured cancer, AIDS, etc?
It was a miracle, isn't it enough for you?
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It was a miracle, isn't it enough for you?
I hear and I obey.
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I hear and I obey.
Thats the spirit...MashaAllah... bravo
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By the way, ALL OF YOU, including me
SHAKIR And even if you bring to those who have been given the Book every sign they would not follow your qiblah, nor can you be a follower of their qiblah, neither are they the followers of each other's qiblah, and if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you shall most surely be among the unjust.