An Invitation from a Muslim Cleric to You
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Ahmad suhbi Mansour is far to much pro-occident (and pro-bush) in my view.
See http//www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_news.php?main_id=22
It is too much political.I think our stance should be pro-quran, rather than anti-sunni.
I prefer the style of Gamal al Banna. But there is a lack of material from him online.
I see no problem in accepting anything that do not contradict the Quran, including hadith, provided they are not deemed sacred.
I have some experience in debating with sunnis (and shias). I know the arguments that work with them.
Nevertheless, we have to make more research on the way the Quran was transmitted
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13918.15About salat, I use to say that salat is mainly about connecting with God, and reminding our commitment with Him. I say there is no point in rejecting the physical way to do it, provided we do not made it sacred, and focus on the spiritual side.
Zakat is purification, and giving money to the poor is a good way to purify ourselves.
About hajj, kaaba, and so on, my understanding is very unclear. I think we need to do more research on this too.
And lastly, I think our greater weakness lies in the lack of concern for grammar, like in Aidid Safar works. This kind of stuff discredit us.
Peace
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Even a ten year-old would smell that there is something fishy if he is told that a person says that dogs are very bad while at the same time he is also known as the father of cats due to his deep love for the animals.
True, but it is one thing to be suspicious but Mansour's style is very critical and talks as if he knows the answers. Its Arab mentality, if you read some stuff from Schacht and Goldziher, they would always remind you that they do not have definite proof and that there needs to be more study and research in it. Arabs meanwhile speak as if they have the facts and then would start accusing based on these presumed facts. Even Gamal Banna says that hadiths have been "proven" to be false and fabricated, yet orientals never claim that. This is the Arab lack of objectivity. Mansour also accuses other Muslims of deviancy as some here do, so whats the difference with Sunni Islam. They also accuse others of deviancy and kufr even if they are not able to provide evidence that these hadiths are authentic.
We don't want to replace on extremism with another.
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PEace Be Upon You All
I'm so happy to see more of you interested in coming and thank you to the brothers who will debate too! sun Where are the sisters who'll debate?? (nudge nudge Sis Samia) ;D
Here is an update. I spoke to the sheikh for a second time, and he again extends his invitation to any and all who want to debate or discuss anything related to our movement. He at first wished to have only one or two debate him at once but has now opened it to as many who want to participate. I think the second time he met me he realized he might have been mistaken in his assumption that i'm still sunni but just a lil confused P I asked him why he prays to Mohamed and talks to him when he does salat. He became silent and then announced his decision to make it a full debate with anyone and everyone joining in.
I still think we should have just a few people who'll speak or else it might become too hard to follow and may overwhelm just one sunni sheikh.He also decided to do it in a public paltalk room because many people who were there when i came in were interested in hearing the debate. So we'll have a full house. He just needs to check with the owners of the room to make sure that everyone is ready for such a debate and all keep to the topic.
He's currently working on a doctorate so he's quite busy these next coming days but will be free soon and will get back to me for the date and time.
I hope to see all of you there and please remember to show your best faces. The other day when I went in there again, most of the sunnis in the room NEVER heard of any quran alone movement and I quickly got many private messages of people who were intrigued by my good islamic manners and wanted to ask me more. If I had gone in there disrespectfully and attacking and insulting all that they believe in I can guarantee those same people would have treated me like crap and probably labelled me a kafra without hearing one word. Keep that in mind that you will be their first taste. Let's show them tolerance, intellect, kindness and patience. Also know that we might not change anyone's beliefs and we might even be insulted by others who don't care how nice you are to them. Show patience and maturity.
3133 You should eagerly race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width encompasses the heavens and the earth; it awaits the righteous,
3134 who give to charity during the good times, as well as the bad times. They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. GOD loves the charitable.4235 Those who argue against our proofs will find out that they have no basis.
4236 Whatever you are given is no more than temporary material of this life. What GOD possesses is far better and everlasting, for those who believe and trust in their Lord.
4237 They avoid gross sins and vice, and when angered they forgive.
4238 They respond to their Lord by Salat. Their affairs are decided after due consultation among themselves, and from our provisions to them they give (to charity). -
I'm so happy to see more of you interested in coming and thank you to the brothers who will debate too! sun Where are the sisters who'll debate?? (nudge nudge Sis Samia) ;D
I know, I know!
I could not commit myself as I will be abroad for a job sometime in the next week/ten days. But I am not ruling out the possibility of my participation. I have to see when it will take place and decide upon that. -
I hope to see all of you there and please remember to show your best faces. The other day when I went in there again, most of the sunnis in the room NEVER heard of any quran alone movement and I quickly got many private messages of people who were intrigued by my good islamic manners and wanted to ask me more. If I had gone in there disrespectfully and attacking and insulting all that they believe in I can guarantee those same people would have treated me like crap and probably labelled me a kafra without hearing one word. Keep that in mind that you will be their first taste. Let's show them tolerance, intellect, kindness and patience. Also know that we might not change anyone's beliefs and we might even be insulted by others who don't care how nice you are to them. Show patience and maturity.
That is what I have often said that beautiful preaching is the key. It may be true that no matter how good your manner is many people will never listen you. However, on the other hand the will also a few people who will and wholeheartedly feel attracted to your preaching.
Peace,
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True, but it is one thing to be suspicious but Mansour's style is very critical and talks as if he knows the answers. Its Arab mentality, if you read some stuff from Schacht and Goldziher, they would always remind you that they do not have definite proof and that there needs to be more study and research in it. Arabs meanwhile speak as if they have the facts and then would start accusing based on these presumed facts. Even Gamal Banna says that hadiths have been "proven" to be false and fabricated, yet orientals never claim that. This is the Arab lack of objectivity. Mansour also accuses other Muslims of deviancy as some here do, so whats the difference with Sunni Islam. They also accuse others of deviancy and kufr even if they are not able to provide evidence that these hadiths are authentic.
We don't want to replace on extremism with another.Cannot agree with u more bro.. on "Arab Mentalilty", even the Quran said very much the same thing..
(Read my footer) -
And i cannot disagree more. how racist and bigoted. i would suggest you both don't make such blanketed statements about people based on their origins. why didn't you finish up to verse 99 bro jafar?
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agree with BOOST. that verse is just wrong.
Clear cut enemy of Allah!!
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LOL ;D
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Hamsa, look at your post count, it's 666!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it's a miracle.Yes, I saw that.... but how 666 is a miracle I have no idea bro -[ .....
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As-Salaamu Alaikum Forum,
Just some words from Al Quran to remind those who will be participating
{125}
Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.
{53}
Say to My servants that they should (only) say those things that are best for Satan doth sow dissensions among them For Satan is to man an avowed enemy.
{54}
It is your Lord that knoweth you best If He please, He granteth you mercy, or if He please, punishment We have not sent thee to be a disposer of their affairs for them.
{104}
Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong They are the ones to attain felicity.
{105}
Be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputations after receiving Clear Signs For them is a dreadful penalty,-
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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And i cannot disagree more. how racist and bigoted. i would suggest you both don't make such blanketed statements about people based on their origins. why didn't you finish up to verse 99 bro jafar?
Its not bigoted, its facts. Arabs as a WHOLE, and not everyone are known not be objective. The Arab poetry is NEVER objective but opposite extremes, its known. Its either hija or madh, absolute criticism and absolute praise. Just look at how they talk about the West, they either worship it or hate its guts, never objective. Never we like their science and technology and their charitable works but oppose its political policies and some of its racism. If you say that one side will call you are a religious extremist(liberals) the other will call you an apostate(islamist) &
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I also agree with Quran on that... how many Arab scholars do we see? The only arabic-English lexicon we have is written by lane, What these arabs have done for Islam? They are hypocrites they do not want people to understand Quran, they are the number one enemies of Islam...And its just waste of time to talk to these ignorants.
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat9_files/9_97.gif
The Arabs are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy, and the most likely to ignore the laws that GOD has revealed to His messenger. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat9_files/9_98.gif
Some Arabs consider their spending (in the cause of God) to be a loss, and even wait in anticipation that a disaster may hit you. It is they who will incur
the worst disaster. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.Only the verse 99 says some of them believe in God...
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat9_files/9_99.gifBut some of the desert Arabs believe in God and the Last Day, and look on their payments as pious gifts bringing them nearer to God and obtaining the prayers of the Apostle. Aye, indeed they bring them nearer (to Him) soon will God admit them to His Mercy for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
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330 MILLION people live in the middle east (not including those that live outside of the region) and you are judging them all based on your reading of Arabic Poetry?
As a basic rule, bro Bigmo, poetry is meant to appeal to emotions and the senses. Hence, you will never find an unbiased poem. How presumptuous it is to base your racist remarks on a bunch of poems you read.
May a word to the wise be sufficient God warned us of the consequences of ARROGANCE.
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I will not be diverted into petty arguments over such ignorance. Arabs are people like you and me. There are some that are believers and others that are not. This is the same for Pakistanis and any other ethnic group. Only the one who has a disease in his heart will read those three verses as anything else than that basic principle that in every group of people you will find the good and the bad.
I take great offense to your statements RasulHamsa.
Back to the topic.
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330 MILLION people live in the middle east (not including those that live outside of the region) and you are judging them all based on your reading of Arabic Poetry?
As a basic rule, bro Bigmo, poetry is meant to appeal to emotions and the senses. Hence, you will never find an unbiased poem. How presumptuous it is to base your racist remarks on a bunch of poems you read.
May a word to the wise be sufficient God warned us of the consequences of ARROGANCE.
Ok, then so be it, but I will tell you, there is nowhere in the Muslim world where Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi and Tabari reigns like the Arab world and those in the
Muslim world that are influenced by them. Nowhere in the Mulsim are the Wahhabi influence greater and nowhere in the muslim world are the Western influence greater. You figure it out. hmmArabs are nothing but bad news, be honest they probably more than any other Muslims became Muslims by the sword and the conquest of the 4 Caliphs. Yet they brag and boast like no other. hail They gave the world nothing but suicide bombers and terror yet they brag and boast like they are something. They assume they are the best of Muslims and think they are all that but 250 million of them couldn't even fight 5 million Jews. Yet they still brag and boast. Every where they spread their version of Islam its nothing but disaster.
Ok, your choice. giveup
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They gave the world nothing but suicide bombers and terror yet they brag and boast like they are something. They assume they are the best of Muslims and think they are all that but 250 million of them couldn't even fight 5 million Jews. Yet they still brag and boast. Every where they spread their version of Islam its nothing but disaster.
Ok, your choice. giveup
Maybe Arabs today give little to the world. But in the past they gave a lot.