Who built the kaaba that is in Mecca?
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peace all,
Agent
Oh ,, what happened to your Avatar? My little one was quite fond of your previous one,coz she resembled one of her friends in Montessori.
peace
siki
I was going to make a similar comment, except that it is me who was quite fond of the little pretty smiling face. It also makes your posts cool even when they are voodoo
The reason why I have changed my avatar is that I might be included in "the shameless list" of bro ahmed because of this thread and I don't want her pic to be there........thank you very much for expressing your love for her.....she will be back as my avatar as soon as possible.
Siki please convey my love to your little angel http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/new%20good%20gif/angels_17.gif May God bless her.
sis sami this is for you
http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/Picture6a.jpgpeace
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Peace rajah,
Rajah-what was Pakistan before 1947??
Hindustan??.and my heroes from that era are all those who fought against the British rule.
Rajah-Can you call Dr. Iqbal a hero of Pakistan? Jinnah a Hero of Pakistan?
What are you talking about??
Allama Iqbal is our national poet and Mohammed Ali Jinnah is the founder of Pakistan.Rajah-there was no Pakistan 100 years before?
There was no Saudi Arabia, America, Canada, England etc few hundred years back?.what are you trying to say??
Rajah-May be no Pakistan after 100 years?
May be no earth after a 100 years confused.
The geographical boundaries of the sub continent have changed many times in the history?..before the moguls and particularly emperor Akbar?..the subcontinent was divided into small princely states based on ethnics divisions.
Presently the subcontinent has three independent states?Pakistan, India and Bangladesh??our history before 1947 is the same but after 1947 we have our own history and heroes, Bangladesh and India have their own.
Rajah-My Hero is any one who lives and strives for the name of Allah!
Ah another emotional statement without defining the meanings of striving for the name of Allah???is it like smiting the heads of the infidels? Or killing the innocent people by suicide bombings? Many are striving for the name of Allah in a very violent way?.the shias are striving for the name of Allah in their own ways?.the Sunnis and particularly the wahabis are striving in their own way?.Taliban were striving in their own way????.northern alliance was striving in a different way
My heroes are who defend the borders of my country and all those who contribute to the betterment of the people of this country and those whose strive for the honor of this country in what ever way and in what ever field and it doesn?t matter to me if they are Muslims or non Muslims.
Rajah- You and your friends keep on parroting Quran only; Quran Only; but the message of Quran is against nationalism and asks for universal brother hood.
Now you are negating your own divine laws of ?Arabs are the chosen people to lead the world in future"
Universal brother hood means you live in peace with each other in spite of difference in color, caste, creed, nationality.
rajah-I have a dream that one day INDIA/PAKISTAN/JAMMU&Kashmir/Bangladesh will become one again because we were victim of INTERNATIONAL CONSIPIRACY as is Palestine.
What a paradoxical statement?..your heroes are the one who strive for the name of Allah?..how are you going to convince one billion Hindus, Sikhs and other non Muslims in the subcontinent to follow your heroes and belief?.
With the kind of attitude you reflect?.its hard even for moderate Muslims to live with you, so how do expect the non Muslims to digest this rigid approach????in fact this kind of rigid approach is the barrier that make it more and more difficult for people of the subcontinent to live in peace.
Yea international conspiracy?.the battle of camel, Ali and mauvia?s battles, massacre at karbala, the Abbasid?s massacre of banu omaya etc were all international conspiracies.
DID BABER came to the subcontinent and massacred IBRAHIM LODHI and his army because of this international conspiracy??..SHER SHAH SOORI kicked HAMAYUN out of the sub continent??..AURANGZEB killed his brothers and put his father emperor SHAH JEHAN into prison because of this conspiracy.
please Stop blaming other for every wrong doing of our own.
rajah- Quran was revealed in Arabic and to Arabs, THEREFORE THEY ARE THE NATION WHICH HAS BEEN GIVEN IMPORTANCE BY ALLAH TO LEAD THE WORLD IN FUTURE weather yOU, AYMAN or anyone likes it or not!
Agentxxx-Again you make claims that you don?t have any evidence from quran to support.
O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! THE NOBLEST OF YOU, IN THE SIGHT OF ALLAH, IS THE BEST IN CONDUCT. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. 4913.
Rajah
oh! dear; dear!
We are not talking about what will happen at the day of judgement, offcourse it will be according to what deeds one has done weather an arabic or non arabic. I am talking about Quran being revealed in arabic and Arabs leading the world as IS RECORDED IN HISTORY, MUHAMMAD WAS AN ARAB and for HUNDRED OF YEARS AFTER MUHAMMAD THEY LEAD THE WORLD.My dear Rajah Sahib, First you talk about the future and when you couldn?t produce a proof supporting your claim, you shift your focus into the past.
Where in the above mentioned comments of mine and the verse that I posted is a talk about JD?
Those days that you are referring to are long gone with the wind?...the Saudis had to call French commandos to liberate the Kaaba when a group of fanatics seized it in 1979?the Saudis had to call the U.S and UK for help when Sadam seized Kuwait and threatned them.
This is the reality today.Theek hay; acha hay; laikan pehley "Allah" phir Pakistan.
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Allah is the first and the last, its nonsense to compare it with Pakistan?
The name of Allah and our Belief is not for showoff purpose?.it is for practicing??..you can utter the name of almighty a million time a day but unless you reflect that in your attitude and conduct its nothing but trying to fool others and make a mockery of his name.
peace
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Peace Bro agentxxx
Well said... please stop wasting your time with him (raj-ah)...
I was unaware AB (Ahmed) had a "hall of shame" on his web-site, I visited it once and was surprised at how little he attracted in his forum, and now that you let me know, will never visit it again.
It is really shameful to do such a thing, and I have but contempt with people who thrive on confrontation!
Talk about having the Prophet's character! o -
peace bro Nabster,
Thank you for your comments, You are right, I think enough has been posted and now we have also drifted away from the main topic.
so it's the end from me.Rajah sahib a last message for you http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/new%20good%20gif/lizard.gif D
http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/gif-1/good-luck.gif
God bless you.
peace
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sis sami this is for you
http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/Picture6a.jpgpeace
Thanks a lot
Isn't she an angel -*Rajah sahib a last message for you http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/new%20good%20gif/lizard.gif D
http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/gif-1/good-luck.gifpeace
hehehe
Good your avatar is changed
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Agentxxx
Thank you for your comments, You are right, I think enough has been posted and now we have also drifted away from the main topic.
so it's the end from me.I think this was best time for you to pack up, dear Agentxxx, as you have nothing to add up to the the topic, OK let us conclude then the thread
The thread was titled "Who built the Kaaba that is in Mecca"? Surely the one who posted the question did not knew the answer that was why he posted the question!
We never came to knew what actually his stance was regarding the matter, all he could do was post the links to the articles of ayman?
The only reason I got engaged in this thread with Agent xxx or tried to got engaged with Tanveer (which he did not responded for) was to viewrs got know the other side of the story.
In my next post I will try to post conclusion of discussion from my side.
We will just stick to the question asked? Who built the Kaaba that is in Mecca?
To answer this question first of all we have to be sure is KAABa the house of ALLAh located in Mecca? Is this KAABa which Allah has ordained us to visit?
Once the location of the KAABA is determined, next we are sure that WHo built it! becuase Quran tells us that Abraham and Ismail built it? therefore the Question becomes know
Where is the House of Allah located?
According to some ANYWHERE? and this is just stupid as we will prove it from Quran!
According to some Jerusalem?For locating HOUSE OF ALLAH we will use Quranic and Historical data available.
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First we will take the claim of those who say House of Allah can be anywhere!
Our Lord! Lo! I have settled some of my posterity in an uncultivable valley near unto Thy holy House, our Lord! that they may establish proper worship; so incline some hearts of men that they may yearn toward them, and provide Thou them with fruits in order that they may be thankful.
This verse clearly tells us settling of Ismail in an Uncultivable Land near Allah's house, and offcourse that cannot be JUST ANY WHERE.
The lie has been exposed. If it could have just been ANYWHERE, then why the people from furthest locations have to travel to a particular place.
as Quran tells usThe first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings In it are signs manifest; (for example) the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith Allah stands not in need of any of his creatures. (The Noble Quran, 396-97)"
So if you say that Allah's House is not in particular place and Just ANYWHERE then listen what Allah has to say
but if any deny faith Allah stands not in need of any of his creatures.....So House of Allah being AnyWHere is just a stupid thought, and bringing in the argument that how can ALLAH befit in a small house is hieght of stupidity and lackness of positive thought; who told them that ALLAH resides in that particular house, that is the place of worship for MANKIND for different reasons.
Allah Ho AKbar.
Next; let us see the claim of those who say that "House of Allah" is located in Jerusalem and not in Mecca.
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I think this thread is going to start all over again like a broken record!!
Salaam Rajah
The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings In it are signs manifest; (for example) the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith Allah stands not in need of any of his creatures. (The Noble Quran, 396-97)"
Next; let us see the claim of those who say that "House of Allah" is located in Jerusalem and not in Mecca.
I suggest that the "Next" should be to show that Bacca is Mecca. If this is proven, then the location of the house in Jerusalem will automatically be refuted.
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Now; when it has been established from the previous post from Quranic evidence that House of Allah just can't be Anywhere.
Then where it is?
Jerusalem or Mecca?Let us also consider the article of layth on the issue as most of the food for opponent's argument is based on this article
?And call out to mankind with the Pilgrimage, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure.? (Quran 2227)
Layth
The single most overlooked clue regarding Pilgrimage is regarding the ?audience?. Abraham is calling out to ?mankind? and not to the ?believers or Muslims?. This information poses a serious problem to the belief that Pilgrimage is a set of rituals as non-believers would not be able to identify with any of these rituals and would thus not carry them out
Abraham is calling out to "mankind" correct; But unless you donot believe in the teachings of Abraham and Quran which tells us about Abraham's teachings what will he do at the House of Allah??
I mean to say if an "Athiest" reads or hears the call of Abraham will he visit House of Allah with the purpose Allah wants him to visit?, No! because he is Jsut a "MAnkind" and doesnot know what Abraham is talking about? Once he recognizes the teaching of Abraham and believes in them he becomes a "MUslim" and each and every "Muslim" visits the Kaaba that is in Mecca without any boundage.Al-Quran
And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the system, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you 'Muslims' from before as well as in this. So let the messenger be witness over you and you be witness over mankind. So hold the assembly and contribute towards betterment and hold tight to God, He is your patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Supporter.Allah Ho Akbar
Layth writes again
Here are the three reasons people would gather
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To be made aware of the system established by God for the people.
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To witness benefits for themselves.
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To recall God?s name over the animal livestock.
Quran tells us according to LAyth's translation
?The first Sanctuary established for the people is the one in Bakk?a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds. In it are clear signs the situation of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure. And God is owed from mankind to make Pilgrimage to the sanctuary, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then God has no need of the worlds.? (Quran 396-97)
?So that they may witness benefits for themselves and recall God?s name in the appointed days over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. So eat from it and feed the needy and the poor. Then let them complete their duties and fulfill their vows, and let them partake at the ancient sanctuary.? (Quran 2228-29)
But who will be these people? common sense tells us those; who will believe that there is a benefit in doing this all (pleasing God/Allah) and they according to Quran as I have mentioned above according to Quran are "Muslims"
Why would some one who thinks that Quran is not the final testament and a fabricated story (JEWS & CHRISTIANS) palagrized from Torah and New testament will ever try to these three obligations you just mentioned? and travel by paying Physically and Financially.
What are the duties? mentioned in above Ayat and the Vows which we have to fullfill? why will the non believers of Quran follow the instructions of Quran, so to follow the instructions of Quran One has to be a MUSLIM first, and you trying to misguide the younger generation of ISlam in the name of Quran alone has failed in his mission.Allah Ho Akbar.
Layth writes again
The Quran identifies the first place for the Pilgrimage as ?Bakk?a?. Now, while Mecca and Bakk?a may rhyme, they are clearly not the same name. Many Muslims have claimed that Mecca used to be known as Bakk?a, but that its name was later changed. Now, this presents a problem to any student of the Scripture as no verification is able to be made that this was indeed the case of a ?name change?. Looking at ancient maps from the time of the Prophet (from Roman times or otherwise) there is no indication that what is today called ?Mecca? has ever carried the name ?Bakk?a?.
I will not engage in long debate again, as I have posted enough work by different scholars who think they are the same and all the Physical and Quranic evidences lead towards their being same
It is very simple LAyth or any if you think that Bakkah is not an ancient name of BAKKAH
Encyclopedia Britanica is one prestigious organization who only enters any entry or article on its pages which are Scholary and have enough evidences
let us see what does it has to sayArabic Makkah, ancient Bakkah or Macoraba city, western Saudi Arabia, located in the Sirat Mountains, inland from the Red Sea coast. It is the holiest of Muslim cities
Now if you think you have enough contra evidence for this and think MAkkah and Bakkah are two seperate places, it is easy; forward it to diffrent WOrld wide bodies who keep the record and tell them to correct what they have, but how will this happen??
By the article of ayman? who even this sites says is controversial article.Allah Ho Akbar.
So until the entry in encyclopedia britanica or anyother respected and well known pedia is not changed, we are sure that Bakkah is Makkah.
Next in next post.
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Peace
The word Ka'abah is not mentioned in The Quran, only in the hadiths.
Therefore, Allah has not validated or asked for that a structure called Ka'abah be constructed, as simple as that.
What is the use of a town then that will house a structure that was not meant to exist.
Now if we are talking about a Temple / Mosque, that is something else...
End of Argument... -
Peace Rajah,
First we will take the claim of those who say House of Allah can be anywhere!
Our Lord! Lo! I have settled some of my posterity in an uncultivable valley near unto Thy holy House, our Lord! that they may establish proper worship; so incline some hearts of men that they may yearn toward them, and provide Thou them with fruits in order that they may be thankful.
This verse clearly tells us settling of Ismail in an Uncultivable Land near Allah's house, and offcourse that cannot be JUST ANY WHERE.No, it doesn't tell us what you propose. The translation that you quoted is false. Please see Classical Arabic dictionaries and the use of the term "zar3" in 1247, 5664, 4829, 6141, 1611, 134, 1437, 1832, 3227, 3921, 26148, and 4426. You can see that "zar3" involves an act of human cultivation. This doesn't mean that the valley was barren, i.e., without naturally occurring plants. So the passage is certainly talking about an "uncultivated valley" not an "uncultivable valley". This is also confirmed by the fact that the people of the prophet were engaged in agriculture activities as per passages such as 5664, etc.
Now why does 1437 simply tell us "an uncultivated valley"? Why doesn't the god tell us in 1437 or in any other passage in the great reading the name of that valley? For example, he could have easily said the valley of Mecca or the valley of so and so. If you believe that the god does everything for a reason then the only logical conclusion is that the name of the valley and its exact location are not important.
The lie has been exposed. If it could have just been ANYWHERE, then why the people from furthest locations have to travel to a particular place.
as Quran tells usAre you implying that the god is lying when he told us the location of the house in 2226?
Are you implying that the god neglected to tell us the name of the town in passages such as 902 and 953?
The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings In it are signs manifest; (for example) the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith Allah stands not in need of any of his creatures. (The Noble Quran, 396-97)"
So if you say that Allah's House is not in particular place and Just ANYWHERE then listen what Allah has to say
but if any deny faith Allah stands not in need of any of his creatures.....But none of the people of the book interpret the term "bakka" as the town named Mecca. Some interpret it as a location near Jerusalem but most of them interpret it not as a physical place at all but as a metaphor for deep sorrow.
According to Classical Arabic dictionaries the word "bakka" in Arabic means competition and crowding.
So House of Allah being AnyWHere is just a stupid thought, and bringing in the argument that how can ALLAH befit in a small house is hieght of stupidity and lackness of positive thought; who told them that ALLAH resides in that particular house, that is the place of worship for MANKIND for different reasons.
The height of stupidity is proposing that the god's house that whoever ENTERS it is safe (397) and INSIDE it are clarifying signs (397) is a stone room 13m x 11m x 14m (it is not even a cube) set on a pedestal and that has no windows and two doors that were elevated to prevent people from entering. How can mankind ENTER INSIDE and as you say "worship" in a stone false cube?!
Peace,
Ayman
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rajah dear warner, I think you are so impressed by ayman and Co.'s propoganda (the number of whom can be counted on fingures) that you just don't want to open up your eyes to the real life. Encyclopedia Britanica is one prestigious organization who only enters any entry or article on its pages which are Scholary and have enough evidences
let us see what does it has to sayDear Sister Salaam
I like to inform you that I am not influenced by Aymans theory on this subject and do not accept it. But most of Aymans refutations on the almost cubic stone structure in Mecca S.A. and the pilgrimage practices around that place are correct since none of that has any support from the Quraan. I hope you open your eyes to the Quraan.
The number of real followers some Messengers had could be counted with fingers. I believe just as every follower of tradition, hearsay hadeeth , tafsirs and other man made books you are deluded away in these false propaganda. Because nothing you say has any support in the Quraan. You boast about numbers, established following, popularity, majority rule concepts. These are the exact arguments disbelievers threw at every Messenger. Just as the Jews and the Christians are deluded about the Temple in Jerusalem and Sinai the tradition followers are lost in their own falsehood and on what the shaitan has thrown in.
Quraan explains your following as,
3769- 70
Truly they found their fathers on the wrong Path;
So they (too) were rushed down on their footsteps!
Rajah Arabic Makkah, ancient Bakkah or Macoraba city, western Saudi Arabia, located in the Sirat Mountains, inland from the Red Sea coast. It is the holiest of Muslim cities
Now if you think you have enough contra evidence for this and think MAkkah and Bakkah are two seperate places, it is easy; forward it to diffrent WOrld wide bodies who keep the record and tell them to correct what they have, but how will this happen??
By the article of ayman? who even this sites says is controversial article.Since Britannica says Mecca is Bakkah, it has to be. Great argument. Why dont you forward the Quraan to these world bodies and get their opinion that it is Gods words. Look up in Britannica for Abraham, Jesus, crucifixion and other numerous issues and you will know how good their research is. Britannica even gives you the place of Jesus crucifixion. Britannica is not a research organization to verify scientific and archeological facts. Your blind following of books other than the Quraan has made you believe in Britannica without question. It is sad you chose Britannica to explain the Quran.
Please check the following
http//www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_mccabe/lies_of_britannica.html
Bakka is not mecca and the Quraan does not support it. Quraan does not support that Mecca is a city in S.A. Quraan does not say the Messenger was born in Mecca, S.A.. The Quraan doe not say al masjid al haram is the mosque around the cubic structure.
Rajah So how will you translate it??
Haram is forbidden or restricted. How did it become Sacred.
I do not have a problem anyone expanding their mosque but my question is do we have to
Face this mosque when we do salat?raj-ah you crack me up laughing...
why do you always have to revert to threats of doom on those who do not agree with you...Well laughing some times is good for health.
So enjoy!This was not my comment.
Also Abraham and Ismael did not build a House or a Kaaba they raised the foundation from the House.
Who grew Balsam in the uncultivable valley ?
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warner
I like to inform you that I am not influenced by Aymans theory on this subject and do not accept it
Ok! good.
Warner
But most of Aymans refutations on the ?almost cubic stone structure? in Mecca S.A. and the pilgrimage practices around that place are correct since none of that has any support from the Quraan. I hope you open your eyes to the Quraan.
dear; if you have read my posts, you will clearly find out that I kept on repeating "After time of Abraham the piligrimage practices around Makkah were corrupted which were corrected by Muhammad and now again 1500 years have been passed and there are some corruptions or some sort of idol worship emerging and we should keep them pointing out" but that does not mean at all we start changing the House of Allah to place about which we ourselves donot know.
The number of real followers some Messengers had could be counted with fingers. I believe just as every follower of tradition, hearsay hadeeth , tafsirs and other man made books you are deluded away in these false propaganda. Because nothing you say has any support in the Quraan. You boast about numbers, established following, popularity, majority rule concepts. These are the exact arguments disbelievers threw at every Messenger. Just as the Jews and the Christians are deluded about the Temple in Jerusalem and Sinai the tradition followers are lost in their own falsehood and on what the shaitan has thrown in.
Come on ayman is'nt any messanger.
Warner
Since Britannica says Mecca is Bakkah, it has to be. Great argument. Why don?t you forward the Quraan to these world bodies and get their opinion that it is Gods words. Look up in Britannica for Abraham, Jesus, crucifixion and other numerous issues and you will know how good their research is. Britannica even gives you the place of Jesus? crucifixion. Britannica is not a research organization to verify scientific and archeological facts. Your blind following of books other than the Quraan has made you believe in Britannica without question. It is sad you chose Britannica to explain the Quran.
I think you donot study a lot, or if you do; you dont not the works of those who are well researched and have some ratings in the eyes of Scholars and masses.
No one is saying that Encyclopedia britannica or anyother research is error free and no one has claimed that but they have a reputation not for unattainable perfection but for strong scholarship,sound judgment, and disciplined editorial review. These practices are the foundation of any reliablereference work. Britannica undergoes continuous revision and fact checking. Their editors work unceasingly to reviseand improve the encyclopedia and to publish the results in a timely way. They work with thousandsof contributors and advisers around the world?scholars and experts all?and maintain a brisk cor-respondence with their readers as well. If they investigate any claims of error that come to their atten-tion, and when one is valid, they fix the error.
That is why I RECOMMENDED TO YOU AND AYMAN OR ANY WHO THINKS THAT MAKKAH IS NOT BAKKAH provide them the evidence and they will change it.
Remember the editors of encyclopedia are not Osama or Mullah Umer!It is sad that some of our viewrs donot know the importance of research work, you being one of them.
Now you giving me url of INFIDELS for your support just tells the story. It is similar to some one asking Bush regarding Osama's biography.
Haram is forbidden or restricted. How did it become Sacred.
I do not have a problem anyone expanding their mosque but my question is do we have to
Face this mosque when we do salat?Brother you are at very intial stage.
Therefore I asked you how will you translate it?Warner
Also Abraham and Ismael did not build a House or a Kaaba they ?raised the foundation from the House?.
Please read previous posts regarding this.
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Warner
Who grew Balsam in the uncultivable valley ?
ayman
But none of the people of the book interpret the term "bakka" as the town named Mecca. Some interpret it as a location near Jerusalem but most of them interpret it not as a physical place at all but as a metaphor for deep sorrow.
According to Classical Arabic dictionaries the word "bakka" in Arabic means competition and crowding.
The Anchor Bible Dictionary quotes
Baca, The Valley Of (PLACE) , The valley of Baca (Psalms 841) is either a historical place name or a symbolical expression for "deep sorrow". The first part of Psalms 846 seems to mean that by "passing through the experience of deep sorrow, righteous ones can make it the source of life." The Septuagint translated the phrase into Greek as "the valley of weeping". The word 'emeq "valley" has the root meaning of "deep", so the expression may mean "deep sorrow".
However, some have considered it as the "valley of the balsam tree" from the same word in plural form found in 2 Samuel 524. This is based on the assumption that baka may be a "gum-exuding tree". Another possibility is that the word beka'im (plural of baka) may mean "weeping wall-rocks" in the valley of Rephaim on whose tops David and his troops were waiting for the coming of the Philistine army passing through the valley below (2 Samuel 524). It seems safe to seek the meaning of baka in relation to the dripping water, since we often find this word in the names related to rivers and wadis, such as Wadi al-Baka in the Sinaitic district and Baca on the wadi in the central Galilee area, W of Meroth. It is also possible to understand beka'im as the place of "weepings" of the Philistine army for their defeat by David. After all these considerations, the expression of "valley of baka" can best be taken as a symbolic expression "weeping" or "deep sorrow" which fits well in the context of Psalms 846
The Jewish Encylopedia states
Baca, The Valley Of A valley mentioned in Psalms LXXXIV7. Since it is there said that pilgrims transform the valley into a land of wells, an old translators gave to Baca, the meaning of a "valley of weeping"; but it signifies rather any valley lacking water. Support for this latter view is to be found in II Samuel V23 et seq.; I Chronicles XIV14 et seq., in which the plural form of the same word designates a tree similar to the balsam tree; and it was supposed that a dry valley could be named after this tree. Konig takes Baca from the Arabian Baka'a, and translates it "lack of streams". The Psalmist apparently has in mind a particular valley whose natural condition led him to adopt its name.
Some say that because "Bakkah" is a word often found in names related to rivers and wadis, such as Wadi al-Bakkah in the Sinai, and Bakkah on the wadi in the central Galilee area, west of Meroth, the use of "Bakkah" could mean any similar area. This does little, however, to explain the use of the Bakkah when the verse is in context.
So ayman what is your stance upon the issue do you think it is a Metaphor? I guess this is your stance, then we will be heading towards the discussion held with ARNOLD YASEEN, where I asked him to please establish first or draw a clear cut line between Metaphoric and Literal Quran.
Further more all the other verses I mentioned before lead us towards it being a Physical place.
and even these tell us that some thing PHSYICAL is going on"So turn thy face toward the Sacred Mosque, and (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces toward it."- (HOLY QURAN 2144).
"Now when Daniel...went into his house; and his window being open in his chamber towards Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and thanks before his God, as he did aforetime."-(DANIEL 610).
"And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed..."-(MATTHEW 2639).
"And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship..."-(JOSHUA 514).
"And he (Elijah) cast himself down upon the earth, and put his face between his knees."-(1 KINGS 1842).
"And they (Moses and Aaron) fell upon their faces..."-(NUMBERS 206).
"And Abraham fell on his face..."-(GENESIS 173).Islam is a Physical and Practical DEEN and not just a Illusion.
