2 questions concerning chapter/surah 30 about the romans...
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Peace,
Why do I have to look this stuff up for you? I'm kind of growing a little tired of you challenging my opininons without doing the reseach yourself. If you don't know, just say you don't know. If you need to look it up, say you need to look it up. But why do you need to disagree without doing the research first?
To you the most appopriate land, is too vague. It is not that it doesn't make any sense. But what makes you think that some battle where the Romans were defeated has to be the lowest point on earth. Where they were defeated could have been the most appropriate place for many reasons. But we need to consider the reasons why that land would have been the most appropriate place for their defeat (although God knows those reasons). The idea makes perfect sense on its own, we just would like to know the reasons why.
I went straight to Wehr and got
closer, nearer, situated lower ndown, lower, inferior, smaller, of less significance; more appropriate, better suited, more sutableThen i went to Lane and saw two main distinctions
Lowness lower which extends into the meaning of of less signficance, worse, inferior
&
Closeness closer, nearer which extends into more appropriate, more suitable
So adnaa can mean 'Most near, most apporiate (nearer, more appropriate) or most low, most inferior (lower, worse)
As it concerns the gender adnaal-ardi is suitable. Whether you saw this as lowest or nearest doesn't make a difference. In this sort of idaafa construction the first part can be masculine even though the second part is feminine. For instance you can say akhdarul-ardi (the green part of the land), or fee akhsabul-ardi would be in the most fertile land or part of the land. It would be dunyaa if it were 'feel-ardi-dunyaa' Ard would have to come first and adnaa if an adjective of ard would convert to the feminine dunyaa.
Futhermore fee doesn't mean a point in the land. It just means 'in' or 'on.' What indicates a point in the land is adnaa (most appropriate, most low or closest (point) in the land) That point which I had to put in parenthesis is undestood within adnaa and its position with al-ardi. Just like if I say huwa raheemun, I have to say 'a merciful man' even though it is just 'a merciful' in Arabic and man is understood.
So instead of disagreeing, please look up the word before assuming that the word means only what you remember it meaning or only the meaning you are familiar with (I have been guilty of this in the past as well so don't take this personal it goes for me as well). And please don't try to act as if you are dissapointed in me for something that you do not fully understand but have made a premature decisioin about.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Yeah. I have seen that before. I thought it was interesting then, but there are so many things that Muslims claim as proof of the Quran that are so false. They even said that Armstrong heard the Adhaan is space. Which is also ridiculous as there are no air molecules in space to hear sound. I considered it but that is very minimal in my mind. It is interesting that this can be one of the valid meanings of the word in this context, but think about all of the ridiculous things that can be implied if we don't intelligently interpret Arabic words and use the whole book to confirm those meanings. Did you see how Salaatun can also mean having anal sex with a woman? That would give those who hate God and the Quran a field day to try to say that the Quran means this when it says make Salaat.
Also I learned when I was in college and did a report on how the mountains are actually pegs for the earth's crust, and the Quran calls them arrawaasiyu which means the fixers or stablizers. Like how a ship uses the marsaa to moor. Giving that illusion of stablizing on something that is floating (The earth's crust floats on lava.) I think these things are very good for us as they can make our faith stronger in a book that we already know is full of logic and tells us to use our intelligence and logic to understand it.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Brother Anwar,
I go two steps further; the knowledge/data/information/our own perceptions need not be juxtaposed on Quran. The statement of Quran should be read and the present day knowledge be evaluated in the light of statement of Quran and not opposite of it as majority of people has been doing and because of that also saying some stupid things. I go to the extent that nothing should be inferred from the statement of Quran. If Quran says "room was dark" I should not infer that it was night time; it will be a conjecture, nothing else.
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Brother Anwar,
I go two steps further; the knowledge/data/information/our own perceptions need not be juxtaposed on Quran. The statement of Quran should be read and the present day knowledge be evaluated in the light of statement of Quran and not opposite of it as majority of people has been doing and because of that also saying some stupid things. I go to the extent that nothing should be inferred from the statement of Quran. If Quran says "room was dark" I should not infer that it was night time; it will be a conjecture, nothing else.
That is a good line of thinking. What is your stance on 2401-04? Do you believe this has anything to do with actually stopping adultery?
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Salaams All,
This is my view,
Why in heavens name will anyone be pleased whether the Pakistanis or the Mongols or the British or the Romans win ? isn?t it the believers victory which is to be expected from all the groups in the world?
Remember there are evil people in all communities accept those who truly believe ? don?t you think?
Use lanes;
302-4
Have defeated the desires in their nearest (worldly) disposition and they after their defeat will gain mastery.
Their relationships will determine the fruitfulness of time to come and indeed will rejoice the believers.Thanks and God Bless us.
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Salaams ,
Not desires , but worldly desires , and what are they .........
?worldliness? is having evil thoughts or doing evil deeds. It is not, for instance, merely doing things people in the world do. People in the world eat, they drive cars, they use computers, they read articles. But these activities are not ?worldly? in a quranic sense because they do not necessarily violate God?s law. In order for something to be worldly it must include sin, a violation of the revealation of God.
I think.
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That issue has been taken care of at many other places. Here a fact is being narrated, therefore, why should it be taken symbollically to defeat the desires. We need not play with the words of the Book and try to perceive the "thought" of Allah other than what His words are depicting.
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Salaams Br,
well people having played with words have made oceans devide??? , certainly not i.
Here a fact is being narrated
A fact that presupposes a future event not taken place, well......
may be your right , but ...
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8715.0Salaams
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well people having played with words have made oceans devide??? , certainly not i. {mz
}Half of the thing has been said and half kept back. How could we make anything out of it? Please say something complete so that we can understand in what context it is being said or what is the complete statement. It may not be presumed that we have read everything said by everyone.
A fact that presupposes a future event not taken place, well?..{mz}
Today NASA gives me the news that after 1000 years there shall be an eclipse. I accept it without questioning. Why? I accept it because I know they have said it on the basis of knowledge that they have. They tell me that on such and such date at such and such time a cyclone will hit your seashore, we immediately take appropriate precautionary measures. If Allah had given news about the happening in future 3-9 years, what is strange in it that this news should not have been accepted? One Messenger had told his nation that enjoy for another three days and then you will face a tragedy and Book tells that it happened. What is strange in it not to accept?
All actions are taken only with a purpose. If we are not sure of the possibility of achieving the desired result, men of prudence do not perform an act. There is always doubt before knowledge. And there is always a conviction/belief/understanding of achieving the desired result for which we intend/decide to take an action.
And our capability of action is dependent upon the fact that Allah has created everything by and making it . Had everything around us not like that, could we imagine of taking a decision even for taking a glass of water? We know the things only by relationship. And anyone who is not aware of the result of his doings seems to have been acting in a distorted state of mind. We know the future; we know our destiny; we are the writers of our own book, which will decide our fate. We will be our own judge. Everything is recorded. And when we read about our past actions, we recall and see them in our vision. That day we will recall/see minutest of things done good or bad.
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?but he's tryin to say it has nothing to do with the romans... so base your counterpoints on that! ?{AaRun}
Dear AaRun, Who is he who is saying that?
?thanks mz, i was waiting for someone to postulate that perhaps rwm has nothing to do with romans at all.
i've been saying it for years but very few listen? {AaRun}
Here you use the word "perhaps", still you are bold enough to ask for the counterpoints on it. If you ask me to prove the esistence of sun, do you expect I will start giving you arguments. And see mz does not seem to have applied his own mind; he says Lane had applied his mind. You seem to be little bit tired. Refresh up and we will discuss.
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Use lanes;
302-4
Have defeated the desires in their nearest (worldly) disposition and they after their defeat will gain mastery.
Their relationships will determine the fruitfulness of time to come and indeed will rejoice the believers.302 Ghulibati alrroomu
Usually ?al? denounces a noun and without cross-reference to another verse one is left to ponder if it?s an Arabic word or ever applied to anything other than ?The Romans? in other literature at the time.
Using Lanes to study roots of ?borrowed? words doesn?t always work well; i.e. with 1051 alfeel, a loanword from Persian ?peel? meaning ?elephant? (no ?p? sound thus ?f? used).
As for ability to prophesy future events, consider dreams in Surah 12?
1241 "O my two companions of the prison! As to one of you, he will pour out the wine for his lord to drink as for the other, he will hang from the cross, and the birds will eat from off his head. (so) hath been decreed that matter whereof ye twain do enquire"...
Peace
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Half of the thing has been said and half kept back. How could we make anything out of it? Please say something complete so that we can understand in what context it is being said or what is the complete statement. It may not be presumed that we have read everything said by everyone.
Sorry Mazhar - i was talking about Moses splitting the sea - bazaar or what and its all playing with words.
Today NASA gives me the news that after 1000 years there shall be an eclipse. I accept it without questioning. Why? I accept it because I know they have said it on the basis of knowledge that they have. They tell me that on such and such date at such and such time a cyclone will hit your seashore, we immediately take appropriate precautionary measures. If Allah had given news about the happening in future 3-9 years, what is strange in it that this news should not have been accepted? One Messenger had told his nation that enjoy for another three days and then you will face a tragedy and Book tells that it happened. What is strange in it not to accept?
Again Mazhar there is nothing about future events in the quran - its too long an argument to discuss, accept you will get good for being good and vice versa , i think.
All actions are taken only with a purpose. If we are not sure of the possibility of achieving the desired result, men of prudence do not perform an act. There is always doubt before knowledge. And there is always a conviction/belief/understanding of achieving the desired result for which we intend/decide to take an action.
And our capability of action is dependent upon the fact that Allah has created everything by and making it . Had everything around us not like that, could we imagine of taking a decision even for taking a glass of water? We know the things only by relationship. And anyone who is not aware of the result of his doings seems to have been acting in a distorted state of mind. We know the future; we know our destiny; we are the writers of our own book, which will decide our fate. We will be our own judge. Everything is recorded. And when we read about our past actions, we recall and see them in our vision. That day we will recall/see minutest of things done good or bad.
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"?So obviously joseph new their law and consequently after careful thought investigation told them what their outcome was going to be ? I believe?{mz253}
Your beliefs are quite interesting. "His careful thought investigation" told him that one of the two prisoners will become very close to the king!!
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Brother Nun,
Try
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9769.msg43192#msg43192
God Bless All.
Brother mz,
Try
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13232.msg110315#msg110315
Still have these occasionally about once a month. D
Peace
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I have seen how rum and feel can mean other things as well. Feel can mean something along the lines of doubt and confusion, and rum something like worldy desires as Mz say but I need to jog my memory. Mz, would you mind posting the citations, word by word, of lane for rum and feel. That would help your point if you could actually post the citations for everyone to see.
I'm going to look it up for myself as well, but please post your evidences if you are going to make claims.Godbless,
Anwar