Would someone explain 6:130 for me
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Salaam Afridi,
I do not know what you have experienced and how, but I have studied the phenomena of spiritual beings for long and there are a lot of rational explanations for the experiences. Your personal experience is not enough as it is subjective. Research should give sufficient answers in the future.
Main point is that the word Jinn has no fixed meaning in the Quran.
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Salaam Afridi,
I do not know what you have experienced and how, but I have studied the phenomena of spiritual beings for long and there are a lot of rational explanations for the experiences. Your personal experience is not enough as it is subjective. Research should give sufficient answers in the future.
Main point is that the word Jinn has no fixed meaning in the Quran.
Salaam arnold
I agree Jinn has no fix meaning but but the which are described in Quran are real like human bud they are hidden and they show them self to some peoples I have seen them with my own eyes this is not a story from a book are from a film if you want to experience then set in a lonely place. OK leave that too dangerous.
i have seen then even on broad day.
Peace
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salaam,
I have settled many times in lonely places but have experienced none. 90% of all Dutch people I know has never experienced anything coming close to encountering spiritual beings. But all Sunni's I know, 90% of them has experienced them. Isn't this a bit strange and a coincidence. The people who are not brought up with these stories, the Dutch people, do not experience them. But people, the Sunni's, who are brought up with these stories do experience them.
It is all about how you teach your brain to explain phenomena. Buddhists will only see Buddha in their dreams, never the virgin Mary. But Catholics do see her. Chrisitians see Jesus, Hindus never see him in their dreams or visions. People who are brought up with the believe spirits walk the earth see them everywhere, people who are not brought up with them never see them.
Do you see a pattern emerge? It is how you are brought up to explain feelings, sounds, twists of the eyes. Your brain searches confirmations to your beliefs. You can say, but Arnold I have talked to them, seen them, felt them.
This subjective experience is not enough to convince they exist. Of the 10 "Jinn experiences", how many of them were not a bit filled in by your brain?I remember when I turned Sunni, I started to search Jinn spirits everywhere. I heard stories from every Sunni how they have encountered them. I looked everywhere and I thought I had encountered some. Whenever something strange happened, it had to be Jinn.
Since I studied the subject and learned it is superstition, I have never experienced them again. You say a desolate place, how come you see them so such? You live in a deserted place?
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I have settled many times in lonely places but have experienced none. 90% of all Dutch people I know has never experienced anything coming close to encountering spiritual beings. But all Sunni's I know, 90% of them has experienced them. Isn't this a bit strange and a coincidence. The people who are not brought up with these stories, the Dutch people, do not experience them. But people, the Sunni's, who are brought up with these stories do experience them.
strawman....
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he's comparing his experience from the people he knows, how many people he know? all dutch and all sunnis in the world? That doesn't mean its true for all dutch or all sunnis per se.
Thing is almost everybody regardless of culture, race, religion ...etc believe in that kind of stuff...
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salaam,
I have settled many times in lonely places but have experienced none. 90% of all Dutch people I know has never experienced anything coming close to encountering spiritual beings. But all Sunni's I know, 90% of them has experienced them. Isn't this a bit strange and a coincidence. The people who are not brought up with these stories, the Dutch people, do not experience them. But people, the Sunni's, who are brought up with these stories do experience them.
It is all about how you teach your brain to explain phenomena. Buddhists will only see Buddha in their dreams, never the virgin Mary. But Catholics do see her. Chrisitians see Jesus, Hindus never see him in their dreams or visions. People who are brought up with the believe spirits walk the earth see them everywhere, people who are not brought up with them never see them.
Do you see a pattern emerge? It is how you are brought up to explain feelings, sounds, twists of the eyes. Your brain searches confirmations to your beliefs. You can say, but Arnold I have talked to them, seen them, felt them.
This subjective experience is not enough to convince they exist. Of the 10 "Jinn experiences", how many of them were not a bit filled in by your brain?I remember when I turned Sunni, I started to search Jinn spirits everywhere. I heard stories from every Sunni how they have encountered them. I looked everywhere and I thought I had encountered some. Whenever something strange happened, it had to be Jinn.
Since I studied the subject and learned it is superstition, I have never experienced them again. You say a desolate place, how come you see them so such? You live in a deserted place?
Salaam arnold
It is not about Sunni or any religion or country. or living in desert places if you read my post i said they dont appear to every one and one still living in my home,
actually i was going to tell you that you set in a lonely place at night in Read so and so verse from Quraan and then you will see for your self but said leave it it is dangerous and you can get kill.
Please dont take it as a personnel attack my personnel belief is that when God says jinn O, ins or tribes off jinn he is telling us about this nation of jinns and not about hidden things.
I accept you have great knowledge of Arabic and you under stand Quraan better then me and i respect you for that but Quraan is God book and it is for every one and very easy when he says man then he means only man and not some thing else.
Peace all
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A Beautiful Mind
http//www.imdb.com/title/tt0268978/
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he's comparing his experience from the people he knows, how many people he know? all dutch and all sunnis in the world? That doesn't mean its true for all dutch or all sunnis per se.
Thing is almost everybody regardless of culture, race, religion ...etc believe in that kind of stuff...
Peace,
I have studied the belief in spirits in cultures on Earth for several years, it is a big part of my Theology study at Amsterdam college. I just gave a short example to explain why I am a skeptic. I respect the belief in spirits, but I believe myself there are many psychological and neurological factors involved that explain them. Mankind has come a long way in understanding the Reality around him. Belief in spirits is one of them. It refers to believing in loose powers in nature, is the same reason why people believed in mutliple gods, seeing the forces of nature unrelated and working loose from each other, seperate powers fighting each other. This is also why everyone on Earth has believed in mutliple gods, spirit belief is directly connected to this.
Polytheism disapeared, but the fragmentary view on nature remained and thus the belief in spirits is maintained. This is also connected with the belief God intervenes constantly in the world. No consistency in the world and the Laws that control it. Views created through not seeing the connection between the Laws of the Universe and seeign them as chaotic.
And where does it say in the Quran you can summon spirits with it? It is a Guidance for mankind, not a seance book. It is send as blessing to Mankind and now you say you can summon evil jinn with it? Sorry Afridi, but this belief goes directly against the Quran. Self-imposed fear can create experiences to fulfill the expected result.
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peace Arnold
Sure, I understand, I was just saying... I do agree with your general point that your mind manifests things, however at the same time i have known many people to have seen these things... people who were not at all superstitious, people who were skeptic of such things, and a friend of mine's brother has a recorded video of a ghost....It is what it is, I am not really sure either way
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Peace,
Many people can experience Placement-memories. Information stored in the energyfields of the surroundings, we can pick up these imprints and as our brain cannot understand it, and plus we are partially grown up with horror movies or certain beliefs, we are trained to fear it.
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plus we are partially grown up with horror movies or certain beliefs, we are trained to fear it.
again i've known people who have had these occurrences, who disbelieved in ghosts, spirits etc....I am not saying i buy into it either, I just see evidence on both sides and I consider both and like on many issues I've stayed undecided.?
Many people can experience Placement-memories. Information stored in the energyfields of the surroundings, we can pick up these imprints and as our brain cannot understand it
how can you prove this theory? it intrigues me
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It has a lot to do with the Quantum Field
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,419,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=bebbbd198d7f9b1ef4723e2f9fbb5600
The above is a small intro to the theory. There is also a book written about it by a Professor who has studied the phenomena for years
http//www.amazon.com/Poltergeist-William-G-Roll/dp/1931044694/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-5432730-5633751?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185397176&sr=1-1
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It has a lot to do with the Quantum Field
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,419,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=bebbbd198d7f9b1ef4723e2f9fbb5600
The above is a small intro to the theory. There is also a book written about it by a Professor who has studied the phenomena for years
http//www.amazon.com/Poltergeist-William-G-Roll/dp/1931044694/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-5432730-5633751?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185397176&sr=1-1
http//www.quraninenglish.com/cgi-local/pages.pl?/quran&img=1965
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peace,
Yes and? These talk about those rarely seen=jinn who believed Jesus was the son of God and Mary the mother of God, and used Astrology. These were the Christian monks living in the Arabian who were famous for their Astrology, people came to them for advice. Just as the Quran says.
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Peace,
I have studied the belief in spirits in cultures on Earth for several years, it is a big part of my Theology study at Amsterdam college. I just gave a short example to explain why I am a skeptic. I respect the belief in spirits, but I believe myself there are many psychological and neurological factors involved that explain them. Mankind has come a long way in understanding the Reality around him. Belief in spirits is one of them. It refers to believing in loose powers in nature, is the same reason why people believed in mutliple gods, seeing the forces of nature unrelated and working loose from each other, seperate powers fighting each other. This is also why everyone on Earth has believed in mutliple gods, spirit belief is directly connected to this.
Polytheism disapeared, but the fragmentary view on nature remained and thus the belief in spirits is maintained. This is also connected with the belief God intervenes constantly in the world. No consistency in the world and the Laws that control it. Views created through not seeing the connection between the Laws of the Universe and seeign them as chaotic.
And where does it say in the Quran you can summon spirits with it? It is a Guidance for mankind, not a seance book. It is send as blessing to Mankind and now you say you can summon evil jinn with it? Sorry Afridi, but this belief goes directly against the Quran. Self-imposed fear can create experiences to fulfill the expected result.
Very interesting !
See also
http//www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=67 -
Agree with OPF,
The meaning is determined by the context. See
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,417,0,0,1,0
I haven't read the whole article as I'm in a hurry, but just for the record, sh-y-t-a-n (Satan)'s root in Arabic is sheen-ya-ta, not sheen-ta-noon. The form is "f-3-l-a-n", there's no such a form as "f-y-3-a-l".
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Arnold,
I have read your article at 19.org and have recently been discussing this issue with Khidir from Tawhiyd website who shares similar opinions as yourself. I sent him your article and he enjoyed it although didn't agree with everything. He disagrees with the idea that Iblis is part of man and says that Iblis was indeed a separate creation. He also says that you may have used "different translations of the Qur?aan that were mistranslations/interpretations." He particularly enjoyed this part of the article where you say
?This understanding clearly changes again the whole concept and understanding of jinn, and proves the word is used differently, based on the context. It is interesting to note the power of suggestion as a lot of the claimed powers of the mythological invisible spirits, come from these verses. As here the jinn says that he will bring the throne in a blink of an eye, and by thus people believe the jinn are as fast as light. When in normal life, people would say this, no-one will believe you do it in a blink of an eye, they know it is just an expression. But with the expressions used in the Quran, people do take it seriously. This contradicting behavior with interpretation can be seen with a lot of interpretations of the Quran. Here the jinn says, ?I?ll bring it before you rise from your seat?, which is clearly just meant as an expression.?
If you haven't seen his site check it out. Its great. Here is the linkhttp//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/index.htm
I think you guys need to butt heads on these issues. You both have very intelligent takes on these things and it would benefit us all if more people like you guys shared ideas. You should try and contact him. He is fluent in Arabic and has a good attitude.
Peace
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peace Falcon,
I haven't read the whole article as I'm in a hurry, but just for the record, sh-y-t-a-n (Satan)'s root in Arabic is sheen-ya-ta, not sheen-ta-noon. The form is "f-3-l-a-n", there's no such a form as "f-y-3-a-l".
See http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Specifically Shiin-Tay-Nun
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/Lane/ShTayNun_OR_ShYaTay.jpg
What do you make of Lane's notes on the root?
