Would someone explain 6:130 for me
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I have settled many times in lonely places but have experienced none. 90% of all Dutch people I know has never experienced anything coming close to encountering spiritual beings. But all Sunni's I know, 90% of them has experienced them. Isn't this a bit strange and a coincidence. The people who are not brought up with these stories, the Dutch people, do not experience them. But people, the Sunni's, who are brought up with these stories do experience them.
strawman....
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he's comparing his experience from the people he knows, how many people he know? all dutch and all sunnis in the world? That doesn't mean its true for all dutch or all sunnis per se.
Thing is almost everybody regardless of culture, race, religion ...etc believe in that kind of stuff...
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salaam,
I have settled many times in lonely places but have experienced none. 90% of all Dutch people I know has never experienced anything coming close to encountering spiritual beings. But all Sunni's I know, 90% of them has experienced them. Isn't this a bit strange and a coincidence. The people who are not brought up with these stories, the Dutch people, do not experience them. But people, the Sunni's, who are brought up with these stories do experience them.
It is all about how you teach your brain to explain phenomena. Buddhists will only see Buddha in their dreams, never the virgin Mary. But Catholics do see her. Chrisitians see Jesus, Hindus never see him in their dreams or visions. People who are brought up with the believe spirits walk the earth see them everywhere, people who are not brought up with them never see them.
Do you see a pattern emerge? It is how you are brought up to explain feelings, sounds, twists of the eyes. Your brain searches confirmations to your beliefs. You can say, but Arnold I have talked to them, seen them, felt them.
This subjective experience is not enough to convince they exist. Of the 10 "Jinn experiences", how many of them were not a bit filled in by your brain?I remember when I turned Sunni, I started to search Jinn spirits everywhere. I heard stories from every Sunni how they have encountered them. I looked everywhere and I thought I had encountered some. Whenever something strange happened, it had to be Jinn.
Since I studied the subject and learned it is superstition, I have never experienced them again. You say a desolate place, how come you see them so such? You live in a deserted place?
Salaam arnold
It is not about Sunni or any religion or country. or living in desert places if you read my post i said they dont appear to every one and one still living in my home,
actually i was going to tell you that you set in a lonely place at night in Read so and so verse from Quraan and then you will see for your self but said leave it it is dangerous and you can get kill.
Please dont take it as a personnel attack my personnel belief is that when God says jinn O, ins or tribes off jinn he is telling us about this nation of jinns and not about hidden things.
I accept you have great knowledge of Arabic and you under stand Quraan better then me and i respect you for that but Quraan is God book and it is for every one and very easy when he says man then he means only man and not some thing else.
Peace all
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A Beautiful Mind
http//www.imdb.com/title/tt0268978/
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he's comparing his experience from the people he knows, how many people he know? all dutch and all sunnis in the world? That doesn't mean its true for all dutch or all sunnis per se.
Thing is almost everybody regardless of culture, race, religion ...etc believe in that kind of stuff...
Peace,
I have studied the belief in spirits in cultures on Earth for several years, it is a big part of my Theology study at Amsterdam college. I just gave a short example to explain why I am a skeptic. I respect the belief in spirits, but I believe myself there are many psychological and neurological factors involved that explain them. Mankind has come a long way in understanding the Reality around him. Belief in spirits is one of them. It refers to believing in loose powers in nature, is the same reason why people believed in mutliple gods, seeing the forces of nature unrelated and working loose from each other, seperate powers fighting each other. This is also why everyone on Earth has believed in mutliple gods, spirit belief is directly connected to this.
Polytheism disapeared, but the fragmentary view on nature remained and thus the belief in spirits is maintained. This is also connected with the belief God intervenes constantly in the world. No consistency in the world and the Laws that control it. Views created through not seeing the connection between the Laws of the Universe and seeign them as chaotic.
And where does it say in the Quran you can summon spirits with it? It is a Guidance for mankind, not a seance book. It is send as blessing to Mankind and now you say you can summon evil jinn with it? Sorry Afridi, but this belief goes directly against the Quran. Self-imposed fear can create experiences to fulfill the expected result.
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peace Arnold
Sure, I understand, I was just saying... I do agree with your general point that your mind manifests things, however at the same time i have known many people to have seen these things... people who were not at all superstitious, people who were skeptic of such things, and a friend of mine's brother has a recorded video of a ghost....It is what it is, I am not really sure either way
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Peace,
Many people can experience Placement-memories. Information stored in the energyfields of the surroundings, we can pick up these imprints and as our brain cannot understand it, and plus we are partially grown up with horror movies or certain beliefs, we are trained to fear it.
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plus we are partially grown up with horror movies or certain beliefs, we are trained to fear it.
again i've known people who have had these occurrences, who disbelieved in ghosts, spirits etc....I am not saying i buy into it either, I just see evidence on both sides and I consider both and like on many issues I've stayed undecided.?
Many people can experience Placement-memories. Information stored in the energyfields of the surroundings, we can pick up these imprints and as our brain cannot understand it
how can you prove this theory? it intrigues me
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It has a lot to do with the Quantum Field
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,419,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=bebbbd198d7f9b1ef4723e2f9fbb5600
The above is a small intro to the theory. There is also a book written about it by a Professor who has studied the phenomena for years
http//www.amazon.com/Poltergeist-William-G-Roll/dp/1931044694/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-5432730-5633751?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185397176&sr=1-1
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It has a lot to do with the Quantum Field
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,419,0,0,1,0&PHPSESSID=bebbbd198d7f9b1ef4723e2f9fbb5600
The above is a small intro to the theory. There is also a book written about it by a Professor who has studied the phenomena for years
http//www.amazon.com/Poltergeist-William-G-Roll/dp/1931044694/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-5432730-5633751?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185397176&sr=1-1
http//www.quraninenglish.com/cgi-local/pages.pl?/quran&img=1965
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peace,
Yes and? These talk about those rarely seen=jinn who believed Jesus was the son of God and Mary the mother of God, and used Astrology. These were the Christian monks living in the Arabian who were famous for their Astrology, people came to them for advice. Just as the Quran says.
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Peace,
I have studied the belief in spirits in cultures on Earth for several years, it is a big part of my Theology study at Amsterdam college. I just gave a short example to explain why I am a skeptic. I respect the belief in spirits, but I believe myself there are many psychological and neurological factors involved that explain them. Mankind has come a long way in understanding the Reality around him. Belief in spirits is one of them. It refers to believing in loose powers in nature, is the same reason why people believed in mutliple gods, seeing the forces of nature unrelated and working loose from each other, seperate powers fighting each other. This is also why everyone on Earth has believed in mutliple gods, spirit belief is directly connected to this.
Polytheism disapeared, but the fragmentary view on nature remained and thus the belief in spirits is maintained. This is also connected with the belief God intervenes constantly in the world. No consistency in the world and the Laws that control it. Views created through not seeing the connection between the Laws of the Universe and seeign them as chaotic.
And where does it say in the Quran you can summon spirits with it? It is a Guidance for mankind, not a seance book. It is send as blessing to Mankind and now you say you can summon evil jinn with it? Sorry Afridi, but this belief goes directly against the Quran. Self-imposed fear can create experiences to fulfill the expected result.
Very interesting !
See also
http//www.theness.com/articles.asp?id=67 -
Agree with OPF,
The meaning is determined by the context. See
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,417,0,0,1,0
I haven't read the whole article as I'm in a hurry, but just for the record, sh-y-t-a-n (Satan)'s root in Arabic is sheen-ya-ta, not sheen-ta-noon. The form is "f-3-l-a-n", there's no such a form as "f-y-3-a-l".
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Arnold,
I have read your article at 19.org and have recently been discussing this issue with Khidir from Tawhiyd website who shares similar opinions as yourself. I sent him your article and he enjoyed it although didn't agree with everything. He disagrees with the idea that Iblis is part of man and says that Iblis was indeed a separate creation. He also says that you may have used "different translations of the Qur?aan that were mistranslations/interpretations." He particularly enjoyed this part of the article where you say
?This understanding clearly changes again the whole concept and understanding of jinn, and proves the word is used differently, based on the context. It is interesting to note the power of suggestion as a lot of the claimed powers of the mythological invisible spirits, come from these verses. As here the jinn says that he will bring the throne in a blink of an eye, and by thus people believe the jinn are as fast as light. When in normal life, people would say this, no-one will believe you do it in a blink of an eye, they know it is just an expression. But with the expressions used in the Quran, people do take it seriously. This contradicting behavior with interpretation can be seen with a lot of interpretations of the Quran. Here the jinn says, ?I?ll bring it before you rise from your seat?, which is clearly just meant as an expression.?
If you haven't seen his site check it out. Its great. Here is the linkhttp//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/index.htm
I think you guys need to butt heads on these issues. You both have very intelligent takes on these things and it would benefit us all if more people like you guys shared ideas. You should try and contact him. He is fluent in Arabic and has a good attitude.
Peace
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peace Falcon,
I haven't read the whole article as I'm in a hurry, but just for the record, sh-y-t-a-n (Satan)'s root in Arabic is sheen-ya-ta, not sheen-ta-noon. The form is "f-3-l-a-n", there's no such a form as "f-y-3-a-l".
See http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
Specifically Shiin-Tay-Nun
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/Lane/ShTayNun_OR_ShYaTay.jpg
What do you make of Lane's notes on the root?
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That Joseph with many coloured coat - is he generally accepted as a prophet? I ask because it appears he did dream interpretation - which is widely understood to be linked with astrology - yet I have not seen any mention of this act of dream interpretation being condoned in the Quran - rahter Joseph appears to be accepted as a prophet.
I have seen a reference in the Quran stated somewhereon this forum that when you are reciting the Quran you need to call on God's protection - what exactly was meant here?
Before I started doing meditation I had 0 experience of paranormal activity. But without prejudice for or against such matter - paranormal expereinces developed. My solution and saviour was by turning to one God alone and listening to the messages contained in the Quran, instead of living a parananormal compatible type of lifestyle so to speak. I think once you have been to the dark side and practiced the arts for yourself with dedication and sincerity and with an open mind and not with preconcived ideas - e.g the same way we are requested to read teh Quran with a pure and non-preconceived ideas way, then and only then will you be more (note - not completely but only more )qualified to say what is real and is not real. Before that point you are likely to be biased either by your own interpretation of the Quran or by your own hypotheses or by man-made theories (be that based on metphysics) all based on intellect. The strongest proof of truth can be found by observation and experience by themselves - not through the intellect alone.
Also in the Quran it mention how each person will be endowed with a differnt goal ..so therefore it is reasonable to accept that some people may have extra-ordinary sensual perception than others - as each person may be endowed with different abilities.
I beleive the primary function of the Quran is for acting as a guidance for mankind not as a means of discovering or understanding the unknown - as has been indicated in the Quran that many things are outside of our understanding and only God knows the ultimate truth and that if we knew more we may be frightened. I am so sorry I don't have the exact references to hand but those more familiar with teh Quran should know what I am talking about.
Now please do feel free to rip me to shreds
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Peace Amin,
I know Khidr. We frequently mail each other and supply each other with information. As for his conclusion that I may have used 'mistranslations' is a wrong conclusion as I based my conclusions on the Arabic. But if I would write the article today I would make the translations myself to explain my point better but the conclusions would be almost similair.
As for Iblis being a seperate creature. I understand this conclusion, but it would contradict 2130 and several other verses. Khidr has a more ' religious' minded understanding of the Quran as he focusses on rituals and as far as I know he believes in the concept of forgiveness, while this concept rejects the Quran. The Quran uses compensation as its justice system.
Religious mindsets that are pursuing personal salvation mostly focus on forces outside of them to blame for the evil done. These 2 always come together and are hard to seperate.
So I do not believe we will come together on any conclusion as both sides have a different view on the universal workings. I respect his work and thinking, but our approaches are very different on many things. Arabic is the key to the Quran, but your mind is still the filter and can cripple your whole understanding.
As for my above claims on the Quran's Justice system
6918-20 On the Day you will be brought, not a single hidden deed of yours will
remain hidden. Then he who is given his record in his right hand, will say, ?Come
all of you around! Read this my record. Behold, I always thought that my
account would be given to me.?Forgiveness means the ignoring of deeds done, which the above verse clearly denies, also forgiveness is about PERSONAL salvation while the Quran focusses on Universal development. The Quran is very practical, one must compensate for the deeds done
11114 Strive to establish and consolidate the Divine System, day and night.
Actions that create balance in the society/Al-Hassanat remove the ill effects of inequities/Al-Sayyi.Good deeds remove bad deeds. This is a Reminder for those who pay attention.Al-Hassanat=Ha-Siin-Nun = To be handsome, make good, seem good/beautiful/comely/pleasing, be excellent, make or render a thing good or goodly, to beautify/embellish/adorn a thing, strive or compete in goodness, to do good or act well, act or behave with goodness or in a pleasing manner towards a person, confer a benefit or benefits upon a person, act graciously with a person, know a thing well, beautify/embellish/adorn oneself, reckon/account/esteem a person to be good/beautiful/pleasing.
Al-Sayyi=Siin-Waw-Alif = to treat badly, do evil to disgrace, be evil/wicked/vicious, ill, anything that makes a person sad and sorrowful, bad action, mischief and corruption, sin, evil doer, wretched or grievous, vex, annoy. su'atun (pl. suat) - corpse, external portion of both sexes, shame.
2147 We will set up the Scales of justice on the Day of Resurrection, and no
person will be wronged in the least. Though the good or evil be of the weight
of a mustard seed, We will bring it forth. We are Sufficient for reckoning and
none can take account as We do.And Allah made it easy for us
- He who does a good deed will receive ten times its worth; and he who does evil will be requited to an equal degree; and no one will be wronged.
1 good deed=10x
1 bad deed=1xGhafour means The Protector, not the Forgiver as the root Gh-F-R refers to shield/helmet/protection against harm or dirt and Rahman/Raheem comes from R-H-M which refers to a woman's womb and thus stands for the providing of nourishment and protection. The term "Merciful" is a Christian word that has no real connection with the words Rahman/Raheem.
This has created a very wrong concept of the Quran where people focus on personal salvation instead of benefitting Mankind in total
1317...That will remain on Earth that which benefits Mankind.
Hajj means Debate/Conference and To repair something. It refers to a Global Debate for repairing the harms done to each other. Salat is explained in 2441 and in Chapter 106.
2441 shows that every creature knows it Salat, meaning they know what to follow (S-L-W=To follow closely/stay attached) to do their Tasbeeh (S-B-H=To swim/to struggle), meaning they follow their instinct to know how to fulfill their potential. We have no instinct, but we have the Quran as our instinct which we must follow. In Chapter 106 we see that in verse 4 Salat is used as worship, but in verse 5 it says that they do not know their real Salat, which is explained in verse 1-3 where it means to benefit Mankind by feeding the poor and help the needy.
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peace Arnold, all,
I'm not entirely sure what you meant with "we have no instinct" but I think you meant chapter 107 in your last paragraph.
Also, if you use Project Root List, it would be preferable to provide a link for others, for reference and verification purposes. Thanks.
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
