A Quranist and Quran translation tampering QXP
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Dear brother/sisters.
QXP 2nd Edition 2005
Author Shabbir Ahmed ,M.D (Florida)
Actual AyaFurther Reference
http//www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/ARABICSCRIPT/AYAT/5/5_6.htm
Traslated by Shabbir Ahmed
56 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When you congregate for Salat, wash you faces and your forearms ,hands to the elbows. Lightly rub you heads and your feet to the anklesI challenge to Prove this translation from the Quranic Text .
Another Explicit example of Tanslation Tampering -
Peace,
Dear Jankren, please read the preface before making such ignorant claims
QXP is a Tasreef-based understanding of the Qur?an presented in contemporary English that is easy enough even for teenagers. It is not a literal translation.
Tasreef is the Qur?anic process where verses in one part of the Qur?an explain or provide deeper understanding of the verses in other parts of the Book. Concisely, it means looking at the Qur?an in its Big Picture. The Qur?an,thus, lets us look at its terms and concepts from very diverse vantage points.This is how special care has been taken to explain every verse from within the Qur?an itself.
The respected reader should expect to find ?The Qur?an As It Explains Itself?different from the prevalent translations and explanations because of the use of Tasreef and the Quraish dialect, and for rejecting extrinsic sources.
The work although close to translation, is more of an understanding from within the Qur?an itself. This Divine Writ calls itself An-Noor (the Light) and light needs no extrinsic sources to show itself. Therefore, I have based my presentation on two principles
Focusing on the language in which the Qur?an was revealed.
Making use of Tasreef, that is, how the Qur?an repeats its messages from very diverse vantage points.
A diligent study of the Book using Tasreef helps us look at the Qur?an in its Big Picture, and this method gives us a phenomenal advantage toward its understanding. -
Peace,
Dear Jankren, please read the preface before making such ignorant claims
QXP is a Tasreef-based understanding of the Qur?an presented in contemporary English that is easy enough even for teenagers. It is not a literal translation.
Tasreef is the Qur?anic process where verses in one part of the Qur?an explain or provide deeper understanding of the verses in other parts of the Book. Concisely, it means looking at the Qur?an in its Big Picture. The Qur?an,thus, lets us look at its terms and concepts from very diverse vantage points.This is how special care has been taken to explain every verse from within the Qur?an itself.
The respected reader should expect to find ?The Qur?an As It Explains Itself?different from the prevalent translations and explanations because of the use of Tasreef and the Quraish dialect, and for rejecting extrinsic sources.
The work although close to translation, is more of an understanding from within the Qur?an itself. This Divine Writ calls itself An-Noor (the Light) and light needs no extrinsic sources to show itself. Therefore, I have based my presentation on two principles
Focusing on the language in which the Qur?an was revealed.
Making use of Tasreef, that is, how the Qur?an repeats its messages from very diverse vantage points.
A diligent study of the Book using Tasreef helps us look at the Qur?an in its Big Picture, and this method gives us a phenomenal advantage toward its understanding.Does tasreef allow one to tamper the translation and commit "Tahreef bil Mahna"
The Holy Quran warned us(446) Among those who have become Jews ,there are some who alter the words from their context,
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If you are correct, then I would advise that people be mindful of 378 also.
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If you are correct, then I would advise that people be mindful of 378 also.
Thanks a lot that you agreed to my point of viewThe aya referred by you
378
(37 And there is a party among them who twist their tongues while reciting the Book to make you think that it is part of the Book when in fact it is not. They say 'It is from Allah', when in fact it is not from Allah. They falsely fix a lie upon Allah, and do so wittingly.This is what I am saying "Tahreef" in Holy books is a crime
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Peace,
It might be relevant if the text claimed itself to be a translation. Fortunately for the authors, it does not. Please refrain from baseless accusations, particularly in thread titles.
Peace,
TayDear Brother
How can you call it as "accusation".I provided the proof.
Accusation is when it is false.
What I have pointed out if this is wrong,I will apologize to the author and all of you.
But first prove that author's translation is correct. -
But first prove that author's translation is correct.
That is the point - it is not a translation. More correctly, you should say "prove that author's interpretation/explanation is correct". For this, you'd have to ask the author, who as far as I'm aware is not a member of the forum, so asking here is pointless. His email is on the ourbeacon.com site.
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That is the point - it is not a translation. More correctly, you should say "prove that author's interpretation/explanation is correct". For this, you'd have to ask the author, who as far as I'm aware is not a member of the forum, so asking here is pointless. His email is on the ourbeacon.com site.
Dear Waqas
I do not want to know why he has done.This is expected.I just to let the readers know what is there.
Don't you bash the traditionlist interpretation ?
If not aware read whole of Literature by G.A Perwez.
The Holy Quran says
613
Is this not so?? -
Salaam Aleikum,
AKUM vs IKUM - Wudhu
Posted By Dr. Shabbir - Florida
Date Tuesday, 28 November 2006, at 408 a.m.Email
56 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When you congregate for Salat, wash your faces and your forearms, hands to the elbows. Lightly rub your heads and your feet to the ankles. ---.
"56. Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha qumtum ila alssalati faighsiloo wujoohakum waaydiyakum ila almarafiqi waimsahoo biruoosikum waarjulakum ila alkaAAbayni
****faighsiloo wujoohakum = wash your faces,(notice the end of the word ..akum)
****waimsahoo biruoosikum = wipe your head,(notice the end of the word ..ikum)
****waarjulakum = and your feet ,(notice the end of the word ..akum)
Because the word waarjulakum is written with .....lakum, it follows the washing of the face.....lakum, grammatically.
For the feet to follow the wiping of the head it should have been writttten as waarjulikum , that is .....likum and NOT ....lakum as it is in the verse."
I have discussed this with several arabic speaking persons, and most confirm the verse says 'rub your head and feet'. But still i would like to understand the above better.
- A questioner
Answer
IKUM and AKUM are not grammatically important here.
KUM is sufficient (YOUR in plural). The flow of the verse here means 'wipe your feet'. Shias are right here but for the wrong reason.
The Sunnis write AKUM.
The Shias write IKUM from the so-called non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS (Abdullah bin Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib.)
Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas was the son of the exalted prophet's paternal uncle, Hazrat Abbas). How could the prophet's cousin have a different copy of the Qur'an.
Interestingly, through the same non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS, the Shias bring support for MUT'AH (temporary marriage.) They maintain that that QIR'AT said, "Marry women ILA AJALIM-MUSAMMA" (Marry women for an appointed or pre-determined time).
Allah says in 2231 - DO NOT MAKE ALLAH'S VERSES A LAUGHING STOCK.
You know QIR'AT means a way of reciting and not writing.
I hope, I am clear.
-SA
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Peace Leoxyz,
How can you call it as "accusation".I provided the proof.
The accusation that the translation is "tampering" the quran is baseless because the text you are quoting from is not a translation. The text, called QXP, is self-described as "more of an understanding from within the Qur?an itself" as Arnold quoted for you in the preface. Thus, any and all criticism regarding it's worthiness as a translation is completely irrelevant.
The authors clearly went to great lengths to explain their goals and probably to avoid this very type of misunderstanding. I would suggest reading the preface again to better grasp this.
Peace,
Tay -
Would it be better called exegesis/tafseer?
By the way, there is a hadeeth about people nitpicking every single fault baselessly while ignoring themselves. I'll find it, God willing.
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Peace Leoxyz,
The accusation that the translation is "tampering" the quran is baseless because the text you are quoting from is not a translation. The text, called QXP, is self-described as "more of an understanding from within the Qur?an itself" as Arnold quoted for you in the preface. Thus, any and all criticism regarding it's worthiness as a translation is completely irrelevant.
The authors clearly went to great lengths to explain their goals and probably to avoid this very type of misunderstanding. I would suggest reading the preface again to better grasp this.
Peace,
TayWhich interpretation/tafseer of this aya signifies "rub the feet".??
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I hope you have booked your appointment. May I suggest that going through the NHS can get you a slight discount on the price of the frame.
Answer
IKUM and AKUM are not grammatically important here.
KUM is sufficient (YOUR in plural). The flow of the verse here means 'wipe your feet'. Shias are right here but for the wrong reason.
The Sunnis write AKUM.
The Shias write IKUM from the so-called non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS (Abdullah bin Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib.)
Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas was the son of the exalted prophet's paternal uncle, Hazrat Abbas). How could the prophet's cousin have a different copy of the Qur'an.
Interestingly, through the same non-existent QIR'AT IBN 'ABBAS, the Shias bring support for MUT'AH (temporary marriage.) They maintain that that QIR'AT said, "Marry women ILA AJALIM-MUSAMMA" (Marry women for an appointed or pre-determined time).
Allah says in 2231 - DO NOT MAKE ALLAH'S VERSES A LAUGHING STOCK.
You know QIR'AT means a way of reciting and not writing.
I hope, I am clear.
-SA
I also wonder what happened to Little Old Lady, did "her" proxy break down?
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I hope you have booked your appointment. May I suggest that going through the NHS can get you a slight discount on the price of the frame.
I also wonder what happened to Little Old Lady, did "her" proxy break down?
Dear '
Do not take the shelter of Weak and Fabricated "Hadiths" (what a pity taking shelter of Fabricated Hadiths and www.blablabla.)
My authority is QuranTranslate it and prove it .
The second source of this Quranic aya;
http//www.islamicity.com/MOSQUE/ARABICSCRIPT/AYAT/5/5_6.htmIn other words you are trying to tell me that Maazullah this Aya is not correct .
2156 -
In other words you are trying to tell me that Maazullah this Aya is not correct .
2156Salaam Leoxyz
It's not about a verse being correct or incorrect. No one is saying it's incorrect. It's about vocalization of the word "arjulakum or arjulikum". If one adopts the fisrt one, and on mere grammatical grounds, it will follow wash your faces wujuuhakum", so it will mean wash your feet.
On the other hand, if one adopts wa arjulikum", it will follow rub your heads ru'uusikum" and it will mean rub your feet.
or
And for your information, no one here messes with qur'aan, quite the opposite. If some people divide their efforts between the quraan and some twenty-hundreds other books, we concentrate ALL our efforts on the quraan. Keep an open mind and try to read more than talk.
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Salaam Leoxyz
It's not about a verse being correct or incorrect. No one is saying it's incorrect. It's about vocalization of the word "arjulakum or arjulikum". If one adopts the fisrt one, and on mere grammatical grounds, it will follow wash your faces wujuuhakum", so it will mean wash your feet.
On the other hand, if one adopts wa arjulikum", it will follow rub your heads ru'uusikum" and it will mean rub your feet.
or
And for your information, no one here messes with qur'aan, quite the opposite. If some people divide their efforts between the quraan and some twenty-hundreds other books, we concentrate ALL our efforts on the quraan. Keep an open mind and try to read more than talk.
Dear Samia
Thanks for reply
Arabic is read and translated according to voweling (ihraab).
according to illiterate people like me.Please correct if I am wrong.
you have quoted two ayaas with two different vowelling.Only one is correct.Naturally both cannot be correct at the same time.Please give the correct Aya.Which one is correct??
So according to you (the criteria of reading) if someone reads/writes the word ( ) as "aalimulghab or aalamulghab" per your arabic and Quranists's lingual somersault ,it does not make any difference.It is ok to pronounce and write both ways.
