Hitting One's Wife.
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I'm sure this has been discussed many times before - and I'm sure it will be discussed many times again.
But I would be interested to hear how members of this forum explain Verse 34 of Sura an-Nisa?
"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."
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daraba doesn't mean 'beat'
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14390.45
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13327.15
I am going to post Edip Yuksel's understanding here
Does the Quran Permit Men to Beat Their Wives?
A famous (and controversial) passage in the Quran has brought about a great deal of misunderstanding about Islam. In Pickthal's translation, we are told that God offers the following advice to Muslim husbands about their wives
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for their support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then, if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.
In M.H. Shakir's translation, we read
(A)nd (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them..
And here is the popular Yusuf Ali translation of the entire (much-disputed) verse
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
Here is our translation of the same passage, with appropriate sidebar references to disputed passages
! Disputed passage
The traditional rendering is you may beat them.
Men take care of women ? since God has endowed some with qualities that differ in degree, and since men spend from their financial resources. The righteous women are obedient (to God), and during the absence (of their husbands), they honor them according to God's commandment, even when alone in their privacy. As for those women who bring about in you a fear of disloyalty, you shall first advise them. Then (if they continue), you may desert them in bed. Then, (if they continue), you may leave them. If they obey you, (however,) then you must not do any wrong against them. God is Most High, Supreme. ? 434
COMMENTARY ON 434
"Verse 434 of the Quran orders believers to beat their wives; therefore, Islam is a male-dominant religion." Many of us have heard this criticism from Christians, atheists, agnostics, and others. Personally, every time I read conventional translations of 434, I feel that something is deeply wrong. How could God, the Most Wise order us to beat our women? What kind of solution is that? It appears to be in contrast to the verses in which God describes marriage
Among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other. He places in your heart love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are signs for people who think. (3021)
Obviously, these mixed messages have bothered many contemporary translators of the Quran. To avoid the moral and intellectual problems, they tried to soften the word "beat" when they translate the verse 434. For instance, Yusuf Ali uses a merciful parenthesis after "beat," adding the word (lightly). This insertion does not appear in the Arabic text; it serves as a kind of apology for his translation of the surrounding material. Rashad Khalifa, rather than questioning the orthodox translation of the word, demonstrates his discomfort with his own version of orthodox translation by an implausible argument in the footnote and a contradictory subtitle before the verse "Do not beat your wife." (However, Rashad Khalifa does not duplicate the orthodox distortion of other key words in the verse).
Many orthodox translators have tried to beat around the bush when it comes to explaining this passage, and perhaps just as many have beaten a hasty retreat from those inquiring after the author's intention -- but all have found themselves, in the end, beaten by 434.
Now please reread the sentence above. You will see that the word "beat" has been used three times, conveying totally different meanings each time a verbal phrase meaning "avoid approaching directly" ("beat around the bush" a verbal phrase meaning "depart quickly" ("beat a hasty retreat" and the status of having been defeated ("beaten". Interestingly, the Arabic verb traditionally translated by male translators as "beat" or "scourge" -- idribuhunne -- has numerous different meanings in Arabic, which is reflected by the Quran.
When I finished the Turkish translation (1991), this verse was on the top of my list to study carefully. Whenever I encounter a problem regarding the understanding of a Quranic verse, I remember 20114 and pray accordingly "Most Exalted is God, the only true King. Do not rush into (understanding) the Quran before it is revealed to you, and say, 'My Lord, increase my knowledge.'"
Almost all of the translations have mistranslated the four key words or terms of this particular verse. (These are "Qawwamune," "Faddallallahu ba'dahum ala ba'd," "Nushuzehunne," and "Fadribuhunne." In a previous book, "Errors in Turkish Translations" (Istanbul, 1992) I discussed the real meaning of these words and the motivation and reasons for mistranslating them.
A Famous Multi-Meaning Word
The main problem comes from the word "Idribuhunne," which has traditionally been translated as "beat them." The root of this word is "DaRaBa". If you look at any Arabic dictionary, you will find a long list of meanings ascribed to this word. In fact, you will find that that list is one of the longest lists in your Arabic dictionary. It can be said that "DaRaBa" is the number-one multi-meaning word in Arabic. It has so many different meanings, we can find numerous different meanings ascribed to it in the Quran.
- To travel, to get out 3156; 4101; 3844; 7320; 2273
- To strike 260,73; 7160; 812; 2077; 2431; 2663; 3793; 474
- To beat 850; 4727
- To set up 4358; 5713
- To give (examples) 1424,45; 1675,76,112; 1832,45; 2435; 3028,58; 3678; 3927,29; 4317; 5921; 6610,11
- To take away, to ignore 435
- To condemn 261
- To seal, to draw over 1811
- To cover 2431
- To explain 1317
As you see, in the Quran alone we can attest to the verb "DaRaBa" having at least ten different meanings. "DaRaBa" has also other meanings that are not mentioned in the Quran. For example, in modern Arabic, you do not print money--you "DaRaBa" money. You do not multiply numbers--you "DaRaBa" numbers. You do not cease doing work--you "DaRaBa" doing work. In Turkish, we have many verbs similar to the Arabic DaRaBa. In English, we have two verbs that are almost equivalent to "DaRaBa". These are "strike" and "beat." Consider, for the sake of comparison, that Webster's Dictionary gives fourteen different meanings to the verb "to strike," and eight to the verb "to beat"! (One strikes a match, strikes a deal, strikes an opponent, strikes gold, goes "on strike" against an unfair employer; one beats another team, beats out a rhythm, beats a retreat, and so on.)
Finding the Appropriate Meaning
Whenever we encounter a multi-meaning word in the Quran ? and this is a frequent occurrence -- we must select the proper meaning (or meanings) given the context, the Arabic forms, the context, the usage of the same word elsewhere in the Quran, and a certain amount of common sense. For instance, if one were to translate "DaRaBa" in 1317 as "beat" (as one could conceivably do), the meaning would be ridiculous
. . . God thus beats truth and falsehood... (1317)
A more sensitive rendering of the context, however, yields a better translation
? God thus explains truth and falsehood... ? 1317
Another example of mistranslation of "DaRaBa" can be found in the translation of 3844. Almost all the translations inject a rather silly story to justify their rendering of the passage. Here is how Yusuf Ali translates the first portion of this verse, which is about Job
And take in the hand a little grass, and strike therewith and break not (the oath). (3844)
Yusuf Ali, in the footnote, narrates the traditional story "He (Job) must have said in his haste to the woman that he would beat her he is asked now to correct her with only a wisp of grass, to show that he was gentle and humble as well as patient and constant."
However, without assuming the existence of this strange, male-viewpoint story (which has no other reference in the Quran), we can translate the verse as
! Disputed passage
The traditional rendering is Now, take grass in your hand and strike her with it and do not break your oath.
"Now, you shall travel the land to fulfill your pledge (to deliver the message of God)." We found him steadfast. What a good servant! He was a submitter. - 3844
Another Take on 434
In keeping with the translation we have used in 3844, we translate the controversial "beating" portion of 434 as "leave her." (Literally, the phrase might also be rendered "strike them out," meaning, in essence, "separate yourselves from such wives."
Additionally, the word "Nushuz" which is generally translated as "opposition" in 434, has another meaning. If we study 434 carefully we will find a clue that leads us to translate that word as embracing a range of related ideas, from "flirting" to "engaging in an extramarital affair" ? indeed, any word or words that reflects the range of disloyalty in marriage. The clue is the phrase before "Nushuz," which reads ". . . they honor them according to God's commandments, even when alone in their privacy." This phrase emphasizes the importance of loyalty in marriage life, and helps us to make better sense of what follows.
Interestingly, the same word, "Nushuz," is used later in the same chapter, in 4128 ? but it is used to describe the misbehavior of husbands, not wives, as it was in 434. In our view, the traditional translation of "Nushuz", that is, "opposition" will not fit in both contexts. However, the understanding of "Nushuz" as marital disloyalty, in a variety of forms, is clearly appropriate for both 434 and 4128.
A Coherent Understanding
When we read 434, we should not understand "idribuhunne" as "beat those women". We should, instead, remember that this word has multiple meanings. God gives us three ways of dealing with marital disloyalty on the part of a wife. In the beginning stage of such misbehavior, the husband should begin to address the problem by giving advice. If this does not work, he should stop sleeping in the same bed and see if this produces a change in behavior. And if there is still no improvement in the situation, the husband has the right to compel a separation.
The Quran gives analogous rights to women who must deal with disloyal husbands (412; this is in accordance with the principle that women have "similar" rights to men in such situations, as stated clearly in 228. These would hardly be "similar" rights if women had to suffer physical beatings for marital disloyalty, and men did not!
Beating women who are cheating and betraying the marriage contract is not an ultimate solution, and it is not consistent with the promise of equitability and comparable rights that appears in 228. (This is an important consideration, because the Quran proclaims, and Muslims believe, that it is utterly free from inconsistencies.) But "striking out" disloyal wives ? that is, separating from them -- is consistent, and it is the best solution. It is also fair.
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daraba doesn't mean 'beat'
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"Now, you shall travel the land to fulfill your pledge (to deliver the message of God)." We found him steadfast. What a good servant! He was a submitter. - 3844
Dear
Actual Aya is
3844which words of this Aya have been translated in the underlined sentence.
Another example of tempering of translation . -
Deleted.
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daraba doesn't mean 'beat'
Da-Ra-Ba is a root and by itself does not mean beat.Does the Quran Permit Men to Beat Their Wives?
Yes, there's no question about the meaning of the word "idribuhunna" to mean "beat/strike/smite them". It DOES NOT mean "leave them" as currently understood as in 434...... As for those women who bring about in you a fear of disloyalty, you shall first advise them. Then (if they continue), you may desert them in bed. Then, (if they continue), you may leave them. If they obey you, (however,) then you must not do any wrong against them. God is Most High, Supreme. ? 434
Incorrect rendition. The word ?idrib? means beat/strike/smite, not ?leave?. The emphasis is on IF, i.e. if they obey, then do no wrong BUT IF they do not obey then do wrong, meaning beat them. Besides, leaving them is already commanded prior to beating them."Verse 434 of the Quran orders believers to beat their wives; therefore, Islam is a male-dominant religion."
All religions have been male-dominant since their inceptions. There is not a known religion bought about by women. Even the supreme god is a HE.Yusuf Ali uses a merciful parenthesis after "beat," adding the word (lightly). This insertion does not appear in the Arabic text; it serves as a kind of apology for his translation of the surrounding material.
So does the new rendered one Men take care of women ? since God has endowed some with qualities that differ in degree, and since men spend from their financial resources. The righteous women are obedient (to God), and during the absence (of their husbands), they honor them according to God's commandment, even when alone in their privacy. As for those women who bring about in you a fear of disloyalty, you shall first advise them. Then (if they continue), you may desert them in bed. Then, (if they continue), you may leave them. If they obey you, (however,) then you must not do any wrong against them. God is Most High, Supreme. ? 434Many orthodox translators have tried to beat around the bush when it comes to explaining this passage, and perhaps just as many have beaten a hasty retreat from those inquiring after the author's intention -- but all have found themselves, in the end, beaten by 434.
Whether othodox or unconventional, traditional or contemporary, ALL translators "beat around the bush" when it comes to explaining the Quran. Perhaps it was never meant for anyone to "explain" the passages of the Quran in the first place. According to popular recent belief, if "God's" special human assistants (prophets) were warned ONLY to "deliver", then who are ordinary men to "explain". It seems that everyone is disobeying "God's message"."beating around the bush" is a phrase and nothing to do with Da-Ra-Ba.
--you "DaRaBa" money. --you "DaRaBa" numbers. --you "DaRaBa" doing work.
What are the Arabic words used here?For instance, if one were to translate "DaRaBa" in 1317 as "beat" (as one could conceivably do), the meaning would be ridiculous
. . . God thus beats truth and falsehood... (1317)
A more sensitive rendering of the context, however, yields a better translation
? God thus explains truth and falsehood... ? 1317
The word in 1317 is neither daraba nor adribu but yadrib used twice. Surely, the words, the contexts and their meanings are different. What would be the meaning of adribu used twice in 812? Surely it isn't anything else but strike/smite/beat. In this verse and in several others (456, 533, 7124, 935, 2071, 2097, 2219-22, 2649, 3857,?), the ?lord? sounds very sadistic, barbaric and utterly cruel. This ?lord? can never be my Lord nor the Creator of creations and neither a Merciful/Gracious One but assuredly seems a physical one, a human in action.Another Take on 434
In keeping with the translation we have used in 3844, we translate the controversial "beating" portion of 434 as "leave her." (Literally, the phrase might also be rendered "strike them out," meaning, in essence, "separate yourselves from such wives."
It is a far fetched comparison to render the phrase "strike them out" to mean "separate yourselves" in similarity.A Coherent Understanding
When we read 434, we should not understand "idribuhunne" as "beat those women". We should, instead, remember that this word has multiple meanings. God gives us three ways of dealing with marital disloyalty on the part of a wife. In the beginning stage of such misbehavior, the husband should begin to address the problem by giving advice. If this does not work, he should stop sleeping in the same bed and see if this produces a change in behavior. And if there is still no improvement in the situation, the husband has the right to compel a separation.
The Quran gives analogous rights to women who must deal with disloyal husbands (412; this is in accordance with the principle that women have "similar" rights to men in such situations, as stated clearly in 228. These would hardly be "similar" rights if women had to suffer physical beatings for marital disloyalty, and men did not!
Even when the word is changed from "beat" to "leave", the disloyalty is burdended upon women, not men, in this case (see underlined above). Is there any discourse clearly detailed in the Quran if the tables were turned around?Beating women who are cheating and betraying the marriage contract is not an ultimate solution, and it is not consistent with the promise of equitability and comparable rights that appears in 228.
Obviously not in today's merciful and peaceful perspectives but in jahilia period that was common not to mention the lashings and this is one reason the Quranic injunctions exposes it. As a matter of fact, wife beating is seen world over even today but more stringent rules applied in western countries.Another argument can be seen from the punishment point of view, where a married person is lashed out/beaten up when adultry takes place, but when a women is unfaithful to her husband, she is simply allowed to "leave" in the end. ???
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The Word Da-ra-ba in quran
http//www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/ArabChristian30907.htm
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daraba doesn't mean 'beat'
If I may ask you to think hypothetically for a moment.
If you discovered that 'udruboohunna' did mean 'beat them' or 'hit them' or 'smack them' would it make you disbelieve in the Qur'an?
Or would it make no difference to you?
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- According to Quran men are allowed to beat (darab) their wives under the condition given in the verse.
- I am not sure why Yosuf Ali has to add his personal opinions using brackets. beat (lightly).
- Yes I find it awkward.
Thanks - I find your honesty and frankness refreshing.
How does your rational mind deal with such an uncomfortable truth?
)
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Yes, there's no question about the meaning of the word "idribuhunna" to mean "beat/strike/smite them". It DOES NOT mean "leave them"
Thank you.
May I ask - are you a Muslim?
How does this verse impact upon your faith?
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Thank you.
May I ask - are you a Muslim?
How does this verse impact upon your faith?
I percieve him as rejecting the Quran, at least by saying "it is tales of old". Why would it impact his faith?
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Peace opf
i don't want to answer on behalf of genteel, but "tales of the old" can also mean that the text has to be placed in its context. Which does not necessarily mean rejectionof the quranic message.
lk
I don't speak on behalf, sorry, should have clarified. I percieve that as rejection. I can be wrong, probably am. Why is there no "delete" button?
