Hitting One's Wife.
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daraba doesn't mean 'beat'
Da-Ra-Ba is a root and by itself does not mean beat.Does the Quran Permit Men to Beat Their Wives?
Yes, there's no question about the meaning of the word "idribuhunna" to mean "beat/strike/smite them". It DOES NOT mean "leave them" as currently understood as in 434...... As for those women who bring about in you a fear of disloyalty, you shall first advise them. Then (if they continue), you may desert them in bed. Then, (if they continue), you may leave them. If they obey you, (however,) then you must not do any wrong against them. God is Most High, Supreme. ? 434
Incorrect rendition. The word ?idrib? means beat/strike/smite, not ?leave?. The emphasis is on IF, i.e. if they obey, then do no wrong BUT IF they do not obey then do wrong, meaning beat them. Besides, leaving them is already commanded prior to beating them."Verse 434 of the Quran orders believers to beat their wives; therefore, Islam is a male-dominant religion."
All religions have been male-dominant since their inceptions. There is not a known religion bought about by women. Even the supreme god is a HE.Yusuf Ali uses a merciful parenthesis after "beat," adding the word (lightly). This insertion does not appear in the Arabic text; it serves as a kind of apology for his translation of the surrounding material.
So does the new rendered one Men take care of women ? since God has endowed some with qualities that differ in degree, and since men spend from their financial resources. The righteous women are obedient (to God), and during the absence (of their husbands), they honor them according to God's commandment, even when alone in their privacy. As for those women who bring about in you a fear of disloyalty, you shall first advise them. Then (if they continue), you may desert them in bed. Then, (if they continue), you may leave them. If they obey you, (however,) then you must not do any wrong against them. God is Most High, Supreme. ? 434Many orthodox translators have tried to beat around the bush when it comes to explaining this passage, and perhaps just as many have beaten a hasty retreat from those inquiring after the author's intention -- but all have found themselves, in the end, beaten by 434.
Whether othodox or unconventional, traditional or contemporary, ALL translators "beat around the bush" when it comes to explaining the Quran. Perhaps it was never meant for anyone to "explain" the passages of the Quran in the first place. According to popular recent belief, if "God's" special human assistants (prophets) were warned ONLY to "deliver", then who are ordinary men to "explain". It seems that everyone is disobeying "God's message"."beating around the bush" is a phrase and nothing to do with Da-Ra-Ba.
--you "DaRaBa" money. --you "DaRaBa" numbers. --you "DaRaBa" doing work.
What are the Arabic words used here?For instance, if one were to translate "DaRaBa" in 1317 as "beat" (as one could conceivably do), the meaning would be ridiculous
. . . God thus beats truth and falsehood... (1317)
A more sensitive rendering of the context, however, yields a better translation
? God thus explains truth and falsehood... ? 1317
The word in 1317 is neither daraba nor adribu but yadrib used twice. Surely, the words, the contexts and their meanings are different. What would be the meaning of adribu used twice in 812? Surely it isn't anything else but strike/smite/beat. In this verse and in several others (456, 533, 7124, 935, 2071, 2097, 2219-22, 2649, 3857,?), the ?lord? sounds very sadistic, barbaric and utterly cruel. This ?lord? can never be my Lord nor the Creator of creations and neither a Merciful/Gracious One but assuredly seems a physical one, a human in action.Another Take on 434
In keeping with the translation we have used in 3844, we translate the controversial "beating" portion of 434 as "leave her." (Literally, the phrase might also be rendered "strike them out," meaning, in essence, "separate yourselves from such wives."
It is a far fetched comparison to render the phrase "strike them out" to mean "separate yourselves" in similarity.A Coherent Understanding
When we read 434, we should not understand "idribuhunne" as "beat those women". We should, instead, remember that this word has multiple meanings. God gives us three ways of dealing with marital disloyalty on the part of a wife. In the beginning stage of such misbehavior, the husband should begin to address the problem by giving advice. If this does not work, he should stop sleeping in the same bed and see if this produces a change in behavior. And if there is still no improvement in the situation, the husband has the right to compel a separation.
The Quran gives analogous rights to women who must deal with disloyal husbands (412; this is in accordance with the principle that women have "similar" rights to men in such situations, as stated clearly in 228. These would hardly be "similar" rights if women had to suffer physical beatings for marital disloyalty, and men did not!
Even when the word is changed from "beat" to "leave", the disloyalty is burdended upon women, not men, in this case (see underlined above). Is there any discourse clearly detailed in the Quran if the tables were turned around?Beating women who are cheating and betraying the marriage contract is not an ultimate solution, and it is not consistent with the promise of equitability and comparable rights that appears in 228.
Obviously not in today's merciful and peaceful perspectives but in jahilia period that was common not to mention the lashings and this is one reason the Quranic injunctions exposes it. As a matter of fact, wife beating is seen world over even today but more stringent rules applied in western countries.Another argument can be seen from the punishment point of view, where a married person is lashed out/beaten up when adultry takes place, but when a women is unfaithful to her husband, she is simply allowed to "leave" in the end. ???
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The Word Da-ra-ba in quran
http//www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/ArabChristian30907.htm
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daraba doesn't mean 'beat'
If I may ask you to think hypothetically for a moment.
If you discovered that 'udruboohunna' did mean 'beat them' or 'hit them' or 'smack them' would it make you disbelieve in the Qur'an?
Or would it make no difference to you?
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- According to Quran men are allowed to beat (darab) their wives under the condition given in the verse.
- I am not sure why Yosuf Ali has to add his personal opinions using brackets. beat (lightly).
- Yes I find it awkward.
Thanks - I find your honesty and frankness refreshing.
How does your rational mind deal with such an uncomfortable truth?
)
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Yes, there's no question about the meaning of the word "idribuhunna" to mean "beat/strike/smite them". It DOES NOT mean "leave them"
Thank you.
May I ask - are you a Muslim?
How does this verse impact upon your faith?
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Thank you.
May I ask - are you a Muslim?
How does this verse impact upon your faith?
I percieve him as rejecting the Quran, at least by saying "it is tales of old". Why would it impact his faith?
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Peace opf
i don't want to answer on behalf of genteel, but "tales of the old" can also mean that the text has to be placed in its context. Which does not necessarily mean rejectionof the quranic message.
lk
I don't speak on behalf, sorry, should have clarified. I percieve that as rejection. I can be wrong, probably am. Why is there no "delete" button?
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Thanks - I find your honesty and frankness refreshing.
How does your rational mind deal with such an uncomfortable truth?
This is how think about it
To be very logical, this ungraceful (or seemingly ungraceful) instruction is not a valid ground to say that Quran is not a word of God. It does add a slight bias though, however it does not prove anything. Issues that tops the ungraceful (or seemingly ungraceful) list are cutting hands, four marriages, permission to the prophet for more than four. On logical grounds they do not prove anything either. "Mistakes" are the only criteria that will prove that this is a man written book. Humans can make mistake. God cannot. Be them internal contradictions or contradiction with science.There are three kinds of people
1- Who rejects the book.
2- Who accepts the book on the face value with best meanings.
3- Who tries to tweak part of the book to make it more acceptable by inventing meanings.I want to be in group 1 or 2.
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I?ve given up on most translations except for quick reference and use mostly literal.
an-Nisa' (Women) 434
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/4/34/
Alrrijalu qawwamoona AAala alnnisa-i bima faddala Allahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabima anfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatun hafithatun lilghaybi bima hafitha Allahu waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakum fala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kana AAaliyyan kabeeran
Literal The men (are) taking care of matters for livelihood on (for) the women with what God preferred/favoured some of them (men and women) on some, and with what they spent from their (M) properties/possession , so the correct/righteous females are obeying humbly , worshipping humbly, protecting/safekeeping to the invisible with what God protected ; and those whom (F) you fear their (F) quarrel (disobedience) , so advise/warn them (F) and desert/abandon them (F) in the place of lying down (beds), and ignore/disregard/push them(F), so if they obeyed you, so do not oppress/transgress on them (F) a way/method, that God was/is high, mighty/great.
Ya Sin (Ya Sin, Ya-Seen) 3613
Waidrib lahum mathalan as-haba alqaryati ith jaaha almursaloona
Literal And give for them an example/proverb (of) the village's/urban city's owners/company, when the messengers came to them.al-Kahf (The Cave) 1832
Waidrib lahum mathalan rajulayni jaAAalna li-ahadihima jannatayni min aAAnabin wahafafnahuma binakhlin wajaAAalna baynahuma zarAAan
Literal And give for them an example/proverb (of) two men, We made/created to one of them two treed gardens from grapes, and We surrounded/encircled them (B) with palm trees, and We made/put between them (B) plants/crops.
Not a step approach (1st, 2nd, 3rd) rather an (if then else) ?attitude? basically...
Refuse sex thus set forth/show them an example or simply ignore them and go on a sex strike! >(
az-Zumar (The Troops, Throngs, The Companies) 3918
Allatheena yastamiAAoona alqawla fayattabiAAoona ahsanahu ola-ika allatheena hadahumu Allahu waola-ika hum oloo al-albabi
Literal Those who hear/listen (to) the word/opinion and belief so they follow its best, those are, those whom God guided them, and those, they are (owners) of the pure minds/hearts.Peace
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Peace
But I would be interested to hear how members of this forum explain Verse 34 of Sura an-Nisa?
apart from the traditional beat meaning, the more recent leave meaning, and the amazing make love with them meaning, I find significant what Wakas pointed out somewhere in the forum, that the verse is about an hypothetical situation, not about something really happened. "If you fear ..."
Anyway, of course I reject the beat meaning completely, never mind if the quran really says that or not.
Clarification if needed, I am not muslim.
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Nobody on the "beat" side - people of hadeeth + others - has answered this question.
Why does the Quran not give a distinct crime for this distinct punishment (i.e. beating)? We are told to lash x100 for public sex, amputate/cut off means for theft, and so on, but why no actual crime here? Why does it not specify a quantitative degree of moderation for this punishment? To lash x100, or halve or double the punishment, for instance?
With reference, please.
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If women are disloyal, Quran has proposed following line of action to men
1- admonish them
2- stop sleeping with them
3- hit themIf men are disloyal, could some one tell me in the light of Quran what should they do?
Hello,
Can you explain the above discrepancy BEFORE asking this question? Does beating even stand up?
The punishment for homosexuality is equal between sexes, which is interesting.
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Hello,
Can you explain the above discrepancy BEFORE asking this question? Does beating even stand up?
The punishment for homosexuality is equal between sexes, which is interesting.
Beating is more like lots of hitting.
As far as I know "darab" means a "hit".
I would say Quran is saying "hit them" or "smack them". Shouldn't we assume "one smack" since the number has not been proposed.
If I say "smack him" that means I am asking you to smack him only once.