Hitting One's Wife.
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The Word Da-ra-ba in quran http//www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/ArabChristian30907.htm
I've read many articles presented by several well known interpreters/translators of the word idrib to mean beat/strike/smite and naturally by a few apologists (especially Quran aloners), but the link above tops them all; well defined, explained and fully detailed as per their contexts. Other than that, I've read number of ahadith proclaiming the same, including the historicity and nature of wife beating as a final resort. The "beating/striking/smiting" part is also evident in other parts of the Quran 812, 850, 474, 4727, to name a few.
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Dear
I have said that the word "Udruboohunna" which you have used does not exist in arabic literature according to my very primitive knowledge.How can Zamakhshari use it?? .If it had been "Idhriboohunna" I would have accepted.You said in you introduction that you are qualified in arabic .
You said
I do speak, read and write Arabic and have a 1st class honours degree in Arabic - thanks
Please forgive me - it is not udruboohunna but as you say Idhriboohunna or with the waw wadriboohunna
Now...
Did you read what Zamakhshari said? (the guy Ahmad Ali apparently uses for his translation).
"It must be a light beating that does not injure nor break her bones and must avoid the face."
Why do you think all the scholars for 1400 years have clearly all agreed it says "hit them" ?
And why is it only today that a handful of modern Muslims who find wife hitting a very uncomfortable thing to believe in - have suddenly discovered the real truth about what this passage means?
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OK - please forgive me - The verse in question - the bit where it says wadriboohunna... which some nasty people translate as; then hit them... is that OK?
Now...
Did you read what Zamakhshari said?
Dear
No problem .you are welcome.
I am not in debate with you about the meaning of this word. -
I do speak, read and write Arabic and have a 1st class honours degree in Arabic - thanks
Please forgive me - it is not udruboohunna but as you say Idhriboohunna or with the waw wadriboohunna
Now...
Did you read what Zamakhshari said? (the guy Ahmad Ali apparently uses for his translation).
"It must be a light beating that does not injure nor break her bones and must avoid the face."
Why do you think all the scholars for 1400 years have clearly all agreed it says "hit them" ?
And why is it only today that a handful of modern Muslims who find wife hitting a very uncomfortable thing to believe in - have suddenly discovered the real truth about what this passage means?
You have a point, but the majority is not always right
Similar to the salat/zakat issue
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Why do you think all the scholars for 1400 years have clearly all agreed it says "hit them" ?
And why is it only today that a handful of modern Muslims who find wife hitting a very uncomfortable thing to believe in - have suddenly discovered the real truth about what this passage means?
Same reason Christian scholars conformed to the idea of slavery and "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection? and Pope is the infallible proxy of God on earth. In addition, non conformance or even hinting at a new interpretation may get them killed.
Thus a line of parrots parroting other parrots due out of fear and personal gain.
Today people have the anonymity to speak their mind and research for themselves. Really makes no difference to me how many parrots in the world; important is that one is convinced and the verse makes perfect sense as?
434?.and those whom you fear their quarrel, so advise them and desert them in the place of lying down, and show them, so if they obeyed you, so do not transgress on them?
1424, 1445; 1675, 1676, 16112; 1832, 1845; 2435; 3028, 3058; 3678; 3927,3929; 4317; 5921; 6610, 6611
This is the ?example? deceptively/cleverly avoided by the Christian Arab in article. Most think women only use sex as tool to get what they want ? not true, it works both ways and women may enjoy it even more so. lol
People read the Qur?an in interpret in different ways to suite their agenda
Christian extremists, Hadithist fanatics, anti-Islamists, etc. are basically same?
1111 Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! Perish he!- Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.
Peace
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Same reason Christian scholars conformed to the idea of slavery and "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection? and Pope is the infallible proxy of God on earth. In addition, non conformance or even hinting at a new interpretation may get them killed.
Thus a line of parrots parroting other parrots due out of fear and personal gain.
Today people have the anonymity to speak their mind and research for themselves. Really makes no difference to me how many parrots in the world; important is that one is convinced and the verse makes perfect sense as?
434?.and those whom you fear their quarrel, so advise them and desert them in the place of lying down, and show them, so if they obeyed you, so do not transgress on them?
1424, 1445; 1675, 1676, 16112; 1832, 1845; 2435; 3028, 3058; 3678; 3927,3929; 4317; 5921; 6610, 6611
This is the ?example? deceptively/cleverly avoided by the Christian Arab in article. Most think women only use sex as tool to get what they want ? not true, it works both ways and women may enjoy it even more so. lol
People read the Qur?an in interpret in different ways to suite their agenda
Christian extremists, Hadithist fanatics, anti-Islamists, etc. are basically same?
1111 Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! Perish he!- Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.
Peace
I completely agree that one should not simply parrot what many people have said a long time ago.
But nor does that mean I will try to convince myself of the absurd and ridiculous simply because the facts are too hard to bear.
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Peace,
I haven't any knowledge of Arabic(can read some) but I have heard that there are more than one meaning of a word so why can you not accept that for daraba?
Majidah
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Peace,
I haven't any knowledge of Arabic(can read some) but I have heard that there are more than one meaning of a word so why can you not accept that for daraba?
Majidah
I cannot accept it because it is ridiculous.
Anyone who has studied Arabic and Islam knows that this verse means "Hit them" - apart from some very self-deluded individuals and their followers.
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I cannot accept it because it is ridiculous.
Anyone who has studied Arabic and Islam knows that this verse means "Hit them" - apart from some very self-deluded individuals and their followers.
Please go ahead and show us the other verses using the same root. Then tell us, what the root means in those verses.
Thanks.
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Please go ahead and show us the other verses using the same root. Then tell us, what the root means in those verses.
Thanks.
Sorry, I'm not playing silly games.
Believe what you want.
It doesn't change the fact you are a deluded loony fringe.
I have to admit I had no idea this site was a Qur'an only site.
While I despise the literalists like the Wahhabis - frankly, they have more integrity than Qur'an only... ers lol
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Sorry, I'm not playing silly games.
Believe what you want.
It doesn't change the fact you are a deluded loony fringe.
I have to admit I had no idea this site was a Qur'an only site.
While I despise the literalists like the Wahhabis - frankly, they have more integrity than Qur'an only... ers lol
So cross-referencing the root with other verses, to gain a clear understanding, is a "silly game?"
Cool. You're welcome to leave the site, of course. It seems to genuinely disturb you. Why put yourself through that?
Peace.
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I cannot accept it because it is ridiculous.
Anyone who has studied Arabic and Islam knows that this verse means "Hit them" - apart from some very self-deluded individuals and their followers.
Peace,
Maybe it's ridiculous when you having in your back comments from Ahmad Ali as beat them lighty.
If we only look at it from the only source(Quran) then I don't see it as ridiculous.
If Quran is preaching peace, then I doubt alot that beating of wives are allowed.
Majidah
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Peace,
Anyone who has studied Arabic and Islam knows that this verse means "Hit them" - apart from some very self-deluded individuals and their followers.
So if the majority agrees with something, its the truth?! What kind of logic is that? You also don't mention the FACT that the same people who 'studied arabic and islam' WANT a particular meaning to hold on to silly fairy-tale hadeeths. I.E. Justifying hadeeth using quran (Backwards mentality)
You are WANTING for quran to say 'beat' just so you have reasons to disbelieve in it, me I don't care what 'daraba' means, i am interested in the truth alone.
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Peace
I have asked a native Arabic speaker. He says 434 is not there but 4101 (??) and that the word being explained is "darb", the gerund (more "??"
Then I went to ask the author of the article at webislam.com where the explanation about the amazing meaning and the Raghib mention are, but the forum is closed for holidays. I'll ask later, after their holidays time )Thanks for presenting that evidence. I wonder where they saw the link between the camel and the quran. Perhaps is there another part of Raghib's work where "daraba" is explained apart from the gerund explanation? If you find it, let me know.
Dear sister/Alena
I am happy that I am seeing some post with some references.That is appreciable.
Look at my highlighted sentences.Now first part of your sentence about camel copulation is there ,but I am unable to find that "Raghib gives the exmple of aya 434.The actual aya is
Raghib's Description is
- } { } { } { } { } { } { . . } { } { } { } { } { } { } { } { . } { } { } { } { } { } { } { } { .
. . .
I am an non-arabic,I might have missed that aya (434) as an example in it.
please just highlight that "example" and post it back.
Thanks -
You are WANTING for quran to say 'beat' just so you have reasons to disbelieve in it, me I don't care what 'daraba' means, i am interested in the truth alone.
I'm afraid you are completely wrong if you think I WANTED the Qur'an to say 'beat'.
This verse troubled me for a long time. The LAST thing I wanted was for it to mean "Hit" or "Beat".
I tried to explain it away in so many ways and I looked at so many Tafseers.
I was a Muslim for 48 years.
I only finally decided to reject Islam a few months ago.
Actually it was when I started coming across the pathetic and ridiculous explanations such as the ones I have seen here, that I really became sick of the whole dishonest process of trying to make the Qur'an fit what I wanted.
I realised I had to accept the Qur'an as it is - and either accept it is God's Divine word or not.
I finally decided it was not.
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I will leave you all in peace now.
I'm sorry to intrude on your little imaginary world - I mistakenly thought that the description of "Free Minds" and "Progressive Muslims" meant that you were actually open-minded freethinkers.
But you are just as dogmatic as the worst Wahhabi - only you believe in even more ridiculous nonsense.
Well good luck with all that.
Bye.
)
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fair enough, it does seem like you have a bias against quran, you continuously mention point of views from scholars who support your point of view. That's not the objective way to look at it. You have to look at all sides, yet you have already decided that people who adhere to the quran are 'deluded and loony' (again a bias)
I guess you haven't learned objectivity in 48 years
Actually it was when I started coming across the pathetic and ridiculous explanations such as the ones I have seen here, that I really became sick of the whole dishonest process of trying to make the Qur'an fit what I wanted.
Bias yet again, you are engaging in typical sunni attitude 'when i can't defeat them linguistically, i will defeat them through personal insults!'
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if that's leaving 'in peace' i am glad you won't be here...I am sorry but you lie to your face and ours. The best you came up with were insults. Good job; takes lots of guts to personally insult people in an online forum, great guts!
Funny in your initial post, i thought you were here not to insult anyone. I bought that actually.
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Association with a certain militant (figuratively) group who shall not be named (there are two) tends to bring such talk from otherwise normal and tolerant people.
Have fun, there is nothing either of us can do to change or guide. )
Can you just explain your perception of God before you leave or have you slammed the door already?