To Obey the Prophet(PBUH) is obligatory to every Muslim
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Samia,The opinion of Imam Shafii who wrote on the importance of hadeeth is that Hadeeth never abrogates the Qur'an and that is the opinion of the bigger scholars of Sunnis Islam, esepcially the four Imams. As for the examples that you brought out. They are examples of particular exceptions to general rules, but no abrogation.
Salaam Hussein
Whose opinion it is does not matter. This is not the subject here. What matters is that such an opinion found its way to Islamic law.
Please tell me how "for the parents and nearest of kin" is general and contains "no heirs"? Which is a general rule and which is an exceptional rule? When you say it is (a particular exception to a general rule) the two should not be mutually exclusive. These are mutually exclusive. You can't have the parents and nearest of kin on a will and no heirs at the same time. Contradicting laws and only one is applicable means the applied one abrogated the non applied one. You just can't say it is not abrogation and get away with it. This is false by logic. Actually, this is given as an example of abrogation of a verse by hadith. Stoning is given as an example of abrogation by action.
You were not there to say or know what she did.
Nor was the mulla who was justifying the story. If I remember, it was you who wrote this story of justification in one of your posts. I do not remember you commenting that this mulla was not there.
At least I am commenting on the comments of someone who was not there either. I am not commenting on the hadith. I am taking it as it is told and throwing it altogether in the garbage No make up would work.A rule made on a hadeeth can be always reversed if the hadeeth is proven wrong or disputed. That has always been the case.
Please tell me of the last time, or anytime, the Islamic law went under a reform scheme.
As for your last sentence, the risk is there in hadeeth and it is present when you are allowed to use your brain for a ruling or to play mainpulative games with the Qur'anic statements. I can see many examples from posters on this forum, where their "rulings" can cause chaos all over.
Typical. When you have no valid argument, jump to your personal attacks.
You can't equate me or any individual person to the law maker mulla. If I want to write a will the way I want, my opinion is useless and the Islamic law will prevail no matter what. And please give an example of any ruling in this forum that can cause chaos all over. -
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Which is low in your case your age or your IQ?
Both
I know you must beyond 70yr and your IQ = 130.
Your posts about "Khimaar" are pretty obvious.
Proof is HereSamia said
"Sorry, I am not in a position to say which is correct, and I do not see why both cannot be correct. When it is cold, and I have no access to warm water, I would rub my feet; or if I am somewhere where the sink is too high for me, I can't just splash water on the floor, so I rub. Otherwise I wash them (washing is the default in my case). Perhaps God left it like that as a way of making things easy for us".
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Zulf,Have you observed God? This is an example of why you need to question your logic. Will you reject God because you have not observed him? It is true that you should not accept everything that you cannot verify, but neither should you reject it either. Sometimes you have to depend on your heart and mind and on probabilities rather than strictly observing.
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LEOXYZ I believe that the quran is from God and that its message has been preserved.
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HUSSEIN
Can anyone observe God? Can God be proven? How? God gives us signs. God asks us to observe his creation so that we may realize his existence. In that way I have indeed observed God.. and I think that the existence of God is quite logical as far as we humans can comprehend.
Well, my thinking goes like this I have chosen to believe that the quran is from God due to how the quran is written and what is written in it etc. It is from the quran that I derive the basis for my hadeeth-independence.
If we may depend on the heart, mind and probabilities in accepting that written laws are from God, then we may accept hadeeth, BUT in that case we must also accept OTHER sources as a law from God and follow them on the same conditions! Such sources could be anything, e.g. Biblical texts, Vedas, Talmud and many other texts and scriptures that have "Godly" messages. If we not only follow the quran, but also hadeeth, then there are no resons not to follow further other texts!
IMO, the proving of hadeeth as mandatory through the quran has a strong resemblance to the christians proving that jesus is the son of God through the bible.
Ok.
One straight question Do you think that one may enter heaven if one has consciously decided to reject hadeeth as something mandatory to follow??
Another version of the same question Is it necessary to follow hadeeth for salvation??
Yet another version Can one neter heaven if you live only by the quran and don't follow the hadeeth(i.e. not taking it as anything necessary)??Peace!
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btw, God is not part of his creation imo. God is beyond the creation. Proving/verifying God would not be the same as proving/verifying some part of his creation. Or?
Classical Quranist mentality Avoid and circumvent the Question.
So you Admit that Quran is not "Creation" .
Right ?
Would you please tell this to other friends of you?? -
Salaam Hussein
That's not true. If they believe that a hadith can abrogate a verse, then not only do they believe that hadith is divine law, but they believe that it is more divine than the qur'aan. Example "No will to benefit a heir laa wasiyyata liwaarithin" abrogates 2180; stoning/killing adulterers abrogates 242; killing the apostates contradicts the teachings of the qur'aan. The theory of hadith/actions of the prophet abrogating some verses finds its way to the Islamic law/shari3a
I have to agree that Hadith cannot abrogate the Quran.But why a Quranist abrogates the order of the Quranic Ayaat e.g.
Do you blieve in "Itaa3t ur Rasool " mentioned in this aya;459
So you do not believe in abrogation of Quranic Aya, then why to reject "itaa3t ur Rasool"??? or double standards as usual. -
Dear
What is the Criteria that you think 100% that Quran is from God and it is preserved??Like I mentioned in my pre-previous post (pls read it again) I BELIEVE that the quran is from God due to its contents and form. I can't prove it. No-one can. I can just believe. But it's not blind faith becasue someone said that's how it is. For example, I haven't come across anything that point toward that the quran would NOT be from God. Same goes for the preservation of the message.
Classical Quranist mentality Avoid and circumvent the Question.
So you Admit that Quran is not "Creation" .
Right ?
Would you please tell this to other friends of you??Brother LEOXYZ,
First of all, I haven't been following the debate on the quran being created or uncreated or what.. so I haven't made any stand on that! Ok?
And how did you come to the conclusion that I think quran is not part of creation. I said GOD is not part of creation. I didn't even mention the quran being created or not!! I didn't discuss it!
Second of all, please put your question again that you claim I have circumvented and avoided so that I can answer it. I don't know what you mean. What was the question? Please, hold your horses.
Third, my friends don't even know about this website, so why should I bring that up with them? -
I have to agree that Hadith cannot abrogate the Quran.But why a Quranist abrogates the order of the Quranic Ayaat e.g.
Do you blieve in "Itaa3t ur Rasool " mentioned in this aya;459
So you do not believe in abrogation of Quranic Aya, then why to reject "itaa3t ur Rasool"??? or double standards as usual.Obey/follow messenger according to Qur?an; e.g. be nice to parents, don?t frown at the blind, etc?
AAabasa watawalla
801 Frowned and turned away.
Nun, the "make" in make easy for Yassarna does not have to mean the make of create. You can make your speech easy or difficult. Your speech is still not a creation because the words are always in you and never leave you. They are merely communicated to others through means of communication. The words themselves are in the speaker or the listener or carried in means of communication. They never stand alone.
hlatif, thank you for the reply; at least we can discuss things sensibly.
Yes, I can accommodate my speech which is a form of creation and this is not about my speech and really don't know how things work with God; it's beyond my scope and will not dwell too much into ambiguities.
Peace
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Like I mentioned in my pre-previous post (pls read it again) I BELIEVE that the quran is from God due to its contents and form. I can't prove it. No-one can. I can just believe. But it's not blind faith becasue someone said that's how it is. For example, I haven't come across anything that point toward that the quran would NOT be from God. Same goes for the preservation of the message.
you want to say that there is
-no proof that Quran is from God
-no Proof that Quran is presereved
Am If right to understand you ? -
you want to say that there is
-no proof that Quran is from God
-no Proof that Quran is presereved
Am If right to understand you ?My brother,
- regarding the preservation of the quran As far as I know, historical records point towards the preservation of the quran, i.e. there are not different versions of the quran in terms of the message contained in the text, only minor differences in terms of spelling etc (as far as I know). Call it whatever you want, proof or not proof. All I'm saying is that there seems to be no reasons thinking the quran is not preserved. That's what I'm saying. Nothing points to the contrary... be that proof or not.
- If there was clear proof of anything pertaining to religion, then wouldn't everyone believe in that thing? I don't know of any proof that would convince everyone that the quran is from God. Most people don't give a damn about proof anyway, they just follow what their parents followed and cling to that no matter what is presented. I believe the quran is from God due to all that is written in it. Like I have already said, I don't know of anything that points toward that the quran is not from God. I'm not in a position of saying whether there are proofs or not. Maybe there are, but I haven't found them?
so to your two questions about proof I can't say yes or no... i don't know. But according to me, everything points toward that the quran is from God and is preserved. Nothing points to the contrary. Do you understand what I mean?
- Why don't you answer some of my questions aswell... I'm answering all your as well as I can. Let's make it reciprocal, give and take.
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"Another sunni mentalist show
The Holy Quran says"
26-10
I agree with you that ayaas are exposing particular mentality and pointing to those people who are (Quran speaks)
332
4733
6412
414
3336
7223
963
You know how clear these verses are.Allah told us 1400 yrs ago.Allaho Akbar
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My brother,
- regarding the preservation of the quran As far as I know, historical records point towards the preservation of the quran, i.e. there are not different versions of the quran in terms of the message contained in the text, only minor differences in terms of spelling etc (as far as I know). Call it whatever you want, proof or not proof. All I'm saying is that there seems to be no reasons thinking the quran is not preserved. That's what I'm saying. Nothing points to the contrary... be that proof or not.
- If there was clear proof of anything pertaining to religion, then wouldn't everyone believe in that thing? I don't know of any proof that would convince everyone that the quran is from God. Most people don't give a damn about proof anyway, they just follow what their parents followed and cling to that no matter what is presented. I believe the quran is from God due to all that is written in it. Like I have already said, I don't know of anything that points toward that the quran is not from God. I'm not in a position of saying whether there are proofs or not. Maybe there are, but I haven't found them?
so to your two questions about proof I can't say yes or no... i don't know. But according to me, everything points toward that the quran is from God and is preserved. Nothing points to the contrary. Do you understand what I mean?
- Why don't you answer some of my questions aswell... I'm answering all your as well as I can. Let's make it reciprocal, give and take.
Dear ;
Let me put it another way.you were born and during your childhood you were introduced with Quran as a devine book.
-Did Quran itself tell you that it is a devine book or
-someone else told you
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LEOXYZ
Dear ;
Let me put it another way.you were born and during your childhood you were introduced with Quran as a devine book.
-Did Quran itself tell you that it is a devine book or
-someone else told you
??I was born - yes
Was I introduced to the quran as a divine book during my childhood? - NO, not at all!
Did the quran tell you its a divine book? - Yes, haven't you read it??
Did someone else tell you? - No-one preached it to me, or wanted me to believe it.So...You don't feel like answering any of my questions? Ok then.... thanks. giveup
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LEOXYZ
I was born - yes
Was I introduced to the quran as a divine book during my childhood? - NO, not at all!
Did the quran tell you its a divine book? - Yes, haven't you read it??
Did someone else tell you? - No-one preached it to me, or wanted me to believe it.So...You don't feel like answering any of my questions? Ok then.... thanks. giveup
You are very lucky that Quran walked to you from shelf and came forward and told you how to read it and what message does it contain ?
All these miracles can happen to a "Quranist" only
& &