Hell
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I have never been able to accept the idea of a Mercifil and Compassionate God torturing his creation because they didn't believe.
Believe in reference to the Quran (to me) is more that simply "belief" but the action express base on ones awareness and faith. For example, Pharaoh believed he was a god and his actions were base on that belief. Therefore he disbelieved in GOD because based on belief and actions.
Hell is consequence of actions. It is unfair to believe that God is a "push-over" and we can do whatever we want without consequences. Discipline is apart of love and mercy. An example would be a mother that loves its child. Is the mother mean and cruel if it disciplines the child? Or is she the opposite?
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Can you explain how it is supposed to affect us on Earth? We are told God guides who God wills, and nobody can compel someone to guidance even through fear, the idea of eternal burning in hell as a justification for belief/Pascal's wager comes from Christians and atheists alike. The Quran is guidance for mankind, not a tome of worship and incantations (esp. non Arabic speaking Sunnis) for a self-sufficient God.
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No idea - doesn't sound very nice though.
I'll give you a clue, before you were born, what state were you in?
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I'll give you a clue, before you were born, what state were you in?
Are you saying that Hell is neither painful nor pleasurable - it is 'nothingness' - like you don't exist?
What is all this about burning skins, boiling drinks, garments of fire, fruit like the heads of devils etc etc...then?
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What did you believe "adribuuhunna" was?
Hit them.
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Peace Cosmic
It is not torture, it is retribution.
Joe
For not believing in God?
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Is the mother mean and cruel if it disciplines the child? Or is she the opposite?
I discipline my kids.
But I wouldn't burn their skins, pour boiling water into their skull, or make them eat fruit that shred their intestine - over and over again?
What sort of sadistic monster would I be if I did that?
And for what?
Because they murdererd? Raped? or even stole?
No.
Because they didn't believe!
Doesn't sound like a Merciful God.
Sounds like a an vain, egotistical, vindictive, petty, and jealous God.
Sounds like a made up God.
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Peace
Either that or opposition.
Joe
However you spin it - the Qur'an says that unbelievers will be roasted, boiled and generally made to suffer unspeakable agony - over and over again.
I can't believe in such a God.
I used to try and soften and explain all this away by saying it is just allegory and metaphore - but I was being dishonest with myself.
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Peace Cosmic
I'm not sure if you are aware, but there are other attributes attributed to this divine being than that of Mercy.
Joe
I know.
And I don't have a problem with punishing murderers, rapists, tyrants etc...
But good decent people whose only crime is that they didn't believe? That I find I can't believe.
And whenever the Qur'an talks about Hell it is nearly always as a punishment for those who don't believe - not rapists or murderers etc...
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Arnold Yasin did a good piece on this - http//19.org/index.php?id=91,420,0,0,1,0
It seems he is using QXP there, which is not a direct translation (some people find it very hard to comprehend this).
Article is from website
http//19.org/index.php?id=91,420,0,0,1,0The article states
Jahannam(arabic&hebrew)/Gehenna(greek) is an old valley south of Jerusalem, Ja=valley Hannam=valley name. People used to be sacrificed there to idols, also the valley was used later on as an execution ground for criminals and also a place were bodies and clothing were burned, who had died of a contagious diseas. Also in Jesus's time it was still used for burning the rubbish and garbage of Jerusalem. Which in itself gives the idea that Jahannam is made 'out of rubbish' or illusion.
Another attempt to take the shelter of History to explain Quranic words.
{Hatred for Hadith ,Love for history = double standard}Article further says;
God already explains that the descriptions of Gehenna and Djenna are metaphors, allegories. (see 1335 and 4715)
It is another Tampering of Quranic meanings
Actual ayas are
47121335
Where Allah has said "Jannat" and "Jahannum" are
-metaphors
-allegories
Show me -
Peace
I think it quite hard to go about the days of my life without acknowledging and praising the source behind myself and all the relationships with my self.
Joe
Well good for you.
But I cannot believe in a God who tortures people who are not as perfect as you are.
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I fear for you, if that is your learning technique. Pay attention, it is 4715, not 4712. Also, ask the author, not me.
4715 - ) (l
1335 - ) (
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Peace
Perfect as myself? Please, let's not let this conversation get out of hand or I shall have to close this thread or send you a warning. I did not claim to be perfect of course. I'm just speaking from my own experience which is why I was speaking of me and not we.
Joe
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Well good for you.
But I cannot believe in a God who tortures people who are not as perfect as you are.
Torture is very inhuman, and if any god likes that he is very much a psycho for sure!
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Peace
or I shall have to close this thread or send you a warning.
Joerotfl
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Isn't it funny that Leoxyz is addressing and debating others, but not the starter of this thread (whom he obviously disagrees with)?
Or is it that enemy of my enemy thing again? ignoreHe is an open disbeliever.His point of view is obviously not acceptable .
But to change the meaning of the Holy Quran is more detrimental not only for our muslim brothers and sisters over here but also for whole muslim umma.
"Janna " and "Hell" are ther real abodes for the righteous and sinners/unbelievers respectively.
These are neither metaphorical nor allegorical places.