is following quran alone even quranic?
-
peace
and who are the ones with knowledge? imams? parents? teachers in school? because everybody has some knowledge but sometimes they say things that are not in the quran,
so how do i decide which one with knowledge to follow?You are right. No one got all the knowledge. People with knowledge are the experts in the filed your querry belongs to. If you want to understand about a disease, for example, you do not search for a righteous person, but you ask a doctor. If you want to know how much your house is worth, ask a surveyor. In the court, judges should seek testimony or proofs from the experts.
-
Peace all,
"the ones with knowledge" no human has all the knowledge and a person with very intelligent interpretations on some things can be very wrong on other. So imo it comes down to "listen to all the information and chose the best" (for your present state of development).
lk
-
peace
well ok, but what does 'follow the ones with knowledge' mean?
Study what 'imam' means
(imam n.m. (pl. a'immah) 2124, 912, 1117, 1579, 1771, 2173, 2574, 285, 2841, 3224, 3612, 4612)
Let's start with what it (following the leaders) doesn't mean
1421 And they appeared before God, all of them. And the weak ones said to those who were arrogant "We were following you, so will you avail us anything from God's retribution?" They said "If God had guided us, then we would have guided you. It makes no difference if we cry out or are patient, for we have no refuge."
3366 On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say "Oh, we wish we had obeyed God, and obeyed the messenger"
3367 And they will say "Our Lord, we have obeyed our leaders and our learned ones, but they misled us from the path."384 And they were surprised that a warner has come to them from among themselves. And the rejecters said "This is a magician, a liar."
385 "Has he made the gods into One god? This is indeed a strange thing!"
386 And the leaders among them went out "Walk away, and remain patient to your gods. This thing can be turned back."4047 And when they argue in Hell, the weak will say to those who were arrogant "We used to be your followers, can you take from us any portion of the Fire?"
4323 And similarly, We did not send a warner to a town, except its carefree ones said "We found our fathers following a certain way, and we are being guided in their footsteps."
My advice would be what Elke said above.
-
3366 On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say "Oh, we wish we had obeyed God, and obeyed the messenger"
3367 And they will say "Our Lord, we have obeyed our leaders and our learned ones, but they misled us from the path."Oh dear!
-
peace all
ok, still have one more question i forgot to ask...
what about following the ones with knowledge regarding religion?
which one is right?
some say miracles happened, some say they didn't, some say jinn are this some say they are that, some say adam was created a certain way, others say he was created another way... you know
now both versions could happen, both could be true, but only one is, imo, so which one?and they all say they speak arabic and say words mean this and that,
so how do i know which one of them has knowledge?i remember it says in the quran something like they will twist the words of God...
so how do i know they are the ones with knowledge or are they twisting the words from God?ok what elke said was good, listen to all the information and choose the best, but what seems best to me doesn't necessarily mean it's true, in some issues both versions make sense to me and seem best, but which one is real?
-
ok what elke said was good, listen to all the information and choose the best, but what seems best to me doesn't necessarily mean it's true, in some issues both versions make sense to me and seem best, but which one is real?
You are right, and I've been there.
Leave the possibility of both open (I also do this) , don't be strict in what you believe...What really matters is doing good, and avoid evil, all these other things are trivial. Above all else, it has to make sense in every way. Just constantly study and stay open-minded. Truth matters above all else.
-
peace all
i remember it says in the quran something like they will twist the words of God...
so how do i know they are the ones with knowledge or are they twisting the words from God?Dear
That is true
Quran has1Words
which cannot by changed because Allah is by himself custodian2Meaning
There is has been continuous try for the last 1400 yrs to change the meaning of the Quran. It is still going on.So be careful.
Never forge the Roles which the Holy Prophet was assigned
1Recitaion of Verses
2Teaching of the Book and Philosophy
3purification of the souls.
The Quran is very clear332
(332) Say 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger.3132
(3132) And obey Allah and the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy.459
(459) Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those from among you who are invested with authority; and then if you were to dispute among yourselves about anything refer it to Allah and the Messenger *89 if you indeed believe in Allah and the Last Day; that is better and more commendable in the end.2454
(2454) Say, "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away, you should note it well that the Messenger is responsible for the duty entrusted to him and you are responsible for the duty entrusted to you. If you obey him, you will be rightly guided, for the responsibility of the Messenger is only to convey the Message clearly to you.469
(469) And he who obeys Allah and the Messenger -they shall be with those whom Allah has favoured -the Prophets, those steadfast in truthfulness *99, the martyrs, and the righteous." How excellent will they be for companions!464
(464) (And tell them that) We never sent a Messenger but that he should be obeyed by the leave of Allah. *94 If whenever they wronged themselves they had come to you praying to Allah for forgiveness, and had the Messenger prayed for their forgiveness, they would indeed have found Allah All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate480
(480) He who obeys the Messenger thereby obeys Allah; as for he who turns away, We have not sent you as a keeper over them!
414
(414) And he who disobeys Allah and His Messenger and transgresses the bounds set by Him - him shall Allah cause to enter the Fire. There he will abide. A humiliating chastisement awaits him.3336
(3336) It *65 does not behove a believing man and a believing woman that when Allah and His Messenger have given their decision in a matter, they should exercise an option in that matter of theirs; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Prophet, has indeed strayed into manifest error7223
(7223) My mission is only to convey what I receive from Him and His messages. *22 Now whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger for him awaits the fire of Hell such people shall dwell in it for ever.813
(813) This is because they defied Allah and His Messenger. Whoever defies Allah and His Messenger must know that Allah is severe in punishment.963
(963) Do they not know that whoso opposes Allah and His Messenger shall have the Fire of Hell for him wherein he shall abide for ever? This is a great ignominy.2456
(2456) Therefore, establish Salat, pay the Zakat dues and obey the Messenger; it is expected that you will be shown mercy4115
(4115) As for him who sets himself against the Messenger and follows a path other than that of the believers even after true guidance had become clear to him, We will let him go to the way he has turned to, *143 and We will cast him into Hell - an evil destination.533
(533) He does not speak of his own desire;534
(534) it is but a Revelation which is sent down to him331
(331) (O Messenger!) Tell people 'If you indeed love Allah, follow me, and Allah will love you and will forgive you your sins. Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate.'332
(332) Say 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger. *283164
(3164) Surely Allah conferred a great favour on the believers when He raised from among them a Messenger to recite to them His signs, and to purify them, and to teach them the Book and Wisdom. For before that they were in manifest error.
4113
(4113) (O Messenger!) But for Allah's favour and mercy upon you, a party of them had resolved to mislead you,yet they only misled them selves, and could not have harmed you in any way. *142 Allah revealed to you the Book and Wisdom, and He taught you what you knew not. Great indeed has been Allah's favour upon you. -
Dear
That is true
Quran has1Words
which cannot by changed because Allah is by himself custodian2Meaning
There is has been continuous try for the last 1400 yrs to change the meaning of the Quran. It is still going on.So be careful.
Never forge the Roles which the Holy Prophet was assigned
1Recitaion of Verses
2Teaching of the Book and Philosophy
3purification of the souls.
The Quran is very clearZFirst mistake, the above role was not the prophet's role, but in fact, the "messenger's" role. Secondly, as explained earlier, the recitation of the quranic verses alone , imparts knowldege of scripture and wisdom, and by default, the verses are able to purify the souls.
332
(332) Say 'Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.' If they turn away from this then know that Allah does not love those who refuse to obey Him and His Messenger.Z Indeed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger, or in other words to obey allah and messenger one needs to obey the verses the messenger had recited..
3132
(3132) And obey Allah and the Messenger, that you may be shown mercy.Z The quran is full of mercy, thus in other words, obey allah and obey the verses the messenger had recited that you may be shown mercy..
6155 And this is a Scripture that We have sent down which is blessed, so follow it and be aware, that you may receive mercy.
459
(459) Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those from among you who are invested with authority; and then if you were to dispute among yourselves about anything refer it to Allah and the Messenger *89 if you indeed believe in Allah and the Last Day; that is better and more commendable in the end.Z Again, obey allah and obey the messenger, and those in authority, (be they parents etc), however if by chance there is an issue with those in authority then we are to turn to obeying allah and the messenger, or in other words, the verses the messenger recited...
Confirming this simple point are the following quranic verses instructing us to turn to the scripture(Obey God and the Messenger) when in dispute with others..
4105
We have sent down to you the scripture, truthfully, in order to judge among the people in accordance with what GOD has shown you. You shall not side with the betrayers2213
The people used to be one community when GOD sent the prophets as bearers of good news, as well as warners. He sent down with them the scripture, bearing the truth, to judge among the people in their disputes. Ironically, those who received the scripture were the ones who rejected any new scripture, despite clear proofs given to them. This is due to jealousy on their part. GOD guides those who believe to the truth that is disputed by all others, in accordance with His will. GOD guides whoever wills in a straight path.
This stuff is just way too obvious for me to waste anymore time on...
Basically, Obeying God and obeying the Messenger is obeying the Message the messenger delivered.
Peace..
-
You are right. No one got all the knowledge. People with knowledge are the experts in the filed your querry belongs to. If you want to understand about a disease, for example, you do not search for a righteous person, but you ask a doctor. If you want to know how much your house is worth, ask a surveyor. In the court, judges should seek testimony or proofs from the experts.
I absolutely agree as we need advice of
-doctor for disease
-engineer for building a house
-lawyer for legal matters
We have to consult the Holy ProphetPBUH for explanation of the Quranic laws
His role was "
1To recite the verses
2To teach the book and philosophy of Deen
3To purify the soulsWho can be more expert than the Holy Prophet PBUH himself.
-
Who can be more expert than the Holy Prophet PBUH himself.
Z Maybe a simple answer can work for our simpleton friend.
551 The Almighty
552 Taught the quran
...
554 Taught humans how to distinguishAnd of course, he still teaches the quran, and teaches humans how to distinguish.
5440 We made the Quran easy to learn. Do any of you wish to learn?
-
maybe you wanna read this.....
Say ?I only call on my Lord, and I do not associate anyone with Him.?
Say ?I have no power to cause you harm nor to show you what is right.?
Say ?No one can protect me from God, and I will not find any refuge except with Him.?
peace -
I absolutely agree as we need advice of
-doctor for disease
-engineer for building a house
-lawyer for legal matters
We have to consult the Holy ProphetPBUH for explanation of the Quranic laws
His role was "
1To recite the verses
2To teach the book and philosophy of Deen
3To purify the soulsWho can be more expert than the Holy Prophet PBUH himself.
How about asking him how the female was created?
-
How about asking him how the female was created?
Do you know how female was created ??
If you know then how is it possible that he, to whom the "Holy book" was directly revealed , did not know.(common sense ).If Allah can tell you how female was created ,why not to him (Prophet PBUH).Or
Allah has told you but not to him ?? Is this, last the case ?? -
Do you know how female was created ??
If you know then how is it possible that he, to whom the "Holy book" was directly revealed , did not know.(common sense ).If Allah can tell you how female was created ,why not to him (Prophet PBUH).Or
Allah has told you but not to him ?? Is this, last the case ??I agree with all you say. But what do you think of this hadith the prophet said women are created from a crooked rib?
-
I agree with all you say. But what do you think of this hadith the prophet said women are created from a crooked rib?
Putting aside what is the value of this Hadith ?
First question to be settled is
Do we know about Quran explanation better or the Prophet PBUH??
This is fundamental Question because all other questions stem from it???
If you are brave enough ,give me clear answer . -
The Last Messenger {Peace and Salam is always upon him} knew only that what he was told in the Quran.
Quran tells him that "You and your nation did not know it earlier" and reminds him "You were not present there when so and so happened".
Messenger was not there when woman was created. And Allah did not tell him in the Quran about the manner and methodology of creation of first woman. Therefore it is conjecture and attributing a false thing to the Messenger if someone says that he narrated the manner of creation of the first woman. It is a blatent lie attributed to the Messenger.
Messenger categorically replied to the people who were interested to listen something, from his own knowledge instead of Quran, that he does not alter the words with his own perception/thought and knowledge.
Quran did not tell the Messenger and the humanity about the time and manner of creation of water. Then can anyone including the Messenger inform us with any amount of certainity about the creation of water?
I hope no one attributed this sort of Hadith to the Messenger. -
Salaam all,
The Last Messenger {Peace and Salam is always upon him} knew only that what he was told in the Quran.
There are two main issues with this
1- You have no proof of this. Indeed the Qur'an says that the book came to your (Muhammad) heart and mind. The book is a wider designation than Qur'an. It encompasses the Qur'an and much more.2- Even if the prophet knew only the Qur'an, then you cannot assume that you will know of the Qur'an same as his knowledge. In fact, you and all of our knowledge is a fraction of his. So, you have to follow him, because he may have caught something or many many things that you and I missed.
Nerspi, the issue of the language and the fact that many people claim that they speak Arabic and claim that they are right while the others are wrong is a very important question. Also, the issue of the truth has to be one or something. Here is my take on it
If people want to understand the Qur'an purely on linguistic tools, as the Qur'an aloners want, then they need to have a coherent method of studying the Qur'an and of applying the linguistic tools. The evidence of wishy washyness is too clear to be denied on this forum. What are the more consistent rules of language?
Take words as concepts with a wide range of meaning that spans the concrete and the abstract, then limit the understanding through context, observed facts that make some of the range of the meaning impossible, or other clear and specific statements of the Qur'an that make part of the range of the meaning impossible.
This is as far as linguistics will take you. Taking bias and thinking that it is logic and imposing it on the Qur'an is unacceptable. What are people doing here?
They place limits on the range of the meanings when they could not. They sometimes try to expand some meanings beyond their range. And then they start fighting with each other and with Sunnis who will show them the different range of the meanings.How does hadeeth fall into this?
1- If the hadeeth is consistent with the range of the meaning of the Ayat or words, then no one can be 100% sure that it is fabricated and it will have to at least be considered, especially if the Isnad is good too.2- Also, the authentic hadeeth, as the understanding of the prophet, on whom the message came in his own language but dialect, may provide the person with a narrower range of the meaning. Something that makes it liveable in case the linguistic range was too wide and inapplicable. Examples
1- The issue of relationships between men and women during menses.
2- The issues of Salat, Zakat, Hajj, Sujood, Rukoo and so on.
3- probably many more that I cannot think of at this point.Take care and have a great day.
Hussein
-
{Quote}There are two main issues with this
1- You have no proof of this. Indeed the Qur'an says that the book came to your (Muhammad) heart and mind. The book is a wider designation than Qur'an. It encompasses the Qur'an and much more.{Hussein}I did not say anything. It is Quran that says like that. Quran tells him that "You and your nation did not know it earlier" and reminds him "You were not present there when so and so happened". I think for a man like you I need not quote the reference from the verses of Quran.
?Even if the prophet knew only the Qur'an, then you cannot assume that you will know of the Qur'an same as his knowledge. In fact, you and all of our knowledge is a fraction of his. So, you have to follow him, because he may have caught something or many many things that you and I missed. {Hussein}
If this could be considered an argument, perhaps there is none who ever claimed to know the Quran as the Last Messenger knew. But the question is how to determine what knowledge beyond the visible words of Quran he taught to people of his time?
Do you think the ?Hadith? of Allah was so complex/confusing/ mysterious that the words of Arabic could not simply narrate that? Quran is the Hadith of Allah and now it is the Qaul of the Last Messenger {Peace and salam always upon him}.
Do you think the Qaul of the Last Messenger is not sufficient but those people are more important who start with two ?Qala Qala? to understand the Qaul of the Messenger?