Hell
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He counted the singulars, did he not?
Apparently he left out singulars like Yawmukum (Your day) and Yawmaithin (This day) but included the dual Yawmayn (2 days).
Seems rather arbitrary to me.
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Please note that I may seem strong in my words and sound harsh, but would like to spit it out nevertheless strictly based upon point of views and the relevance of the subject matters carried out without getting bombarded on person and staying within the limits of rules. So here I go
Belief in God is NOT A LAW and Muslims can't seem to understand this, because Muhammad enforced these beliefs and subjugated people as such to believe in him and his god or else get severely punished and ALL Muslims follow his footsteps, be it Quran Only, Quran + Ahadith Only or Quran + Ahadith + Sunnah Only. This is clearly exposed in the Quran alone (the supposed final revelation) which only Muslims believe in, which they can't seem to comprehend. People get punished because of their wrongdoings and misdeeds not because of their beliefs and ideologies. That is totally ludicrous. The notion of "why can't God do this or why can't God do that" and "if God this or if God that" or "God prohibited this and God prohibited that" etc., etc., etc., based upon an ancient book is absolutely baseless. It has no meaning in this real world.
Exactly, accept this or else.....just what the doctor ordered in ancient time and Muslims ardently and wishfully follow this line of thought regardless. This line of reasoning is dangerous to all humanity. If every cult today took this stance and subjugated each other in their godly beliefs, then there would be religious chaos and wars all over the world. Note that it is only Muslims who fight and kill each other for this very belief. For Quran aloners, even this thought is not spared among themselves. It is no wonder that people in Holland and other European, western and Asian countries are getting sick of this nuisance that is causing a total rift of anger among all others and among themselves for which they want this Quran banned altogether. Now we see more and more websites of ex-Muslims popping up just for these reasons.
What happened at Abu Gharab is torture, what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan is torture, what happened at underground "torture chambers" in Iraq by Saddam's men is torture, stoning people to death as witnessed in Iran is torture, massacring and displacing millions of lives in Palestine is torture and these very Muslims yell to the world that all this is unacceptable and cruel yet equate these acts of cruelty upon their Allah when it comes to their Quran for crying out loud and display fascism as to "why can't HE do it"? What? Is your "God" a human? O please, spare this dreadful, illogical and double standard reasonings.From some of the "free-minds" Quran ONLY beliefs, here's the general consesus
All sunnies are hypocrites and disbelievers
All shias are hypocrites and disbelievers
All wahabies are hypocrites and disbelievers
All ex-Muslims are hypocrites and disbelievers
All other Quran Aloners are hypocrites and disbelievers
All other religions and cults are hypocrites and disbelievers
All atheists and agnostics are hypocrites and disbelievers
All information other than the Quran is not needed because it says so.
Everyone of the above is deaf, dumb and blind.
The Quran can only be judged and understood from Arabic dictionaries.
All history is useless.
Islam is not Islam but islam.
Muslims are not Muslims but muslim.
Proper names are not proper names but common nouns.
Mecca never existed during Muhammad.
Quran cannot possibly be sent down other than a fathomless unperceivable GOD.Whatever others claim to say, it magically becomes either out-of-context, metaphorical or literal (whichever suits them) and cannot be understood by others because their minds are sealed. As a matter of fact each Muslim cult blame the other for being hypocrites, disbelievers and their minds being sealed.
The fact is, that if all Muslims relentlessly and unthinkably believe that the Quran is the final word of God and the entire humanity must believe in it for ALL TIMES, then absolutely NONE believe in it themselves. The Quran has become nothing more than a talk-of-the-town and a total farce.
Anything anyone disagrees with, please let it out and explain so that we can discuss it further (perhaps in the Quranic Divinity or Nature of God sections). Thanks.
Excellent post Genteel.
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Where is your evidence that it was a fathomless unperceivable ALLAH who sent one of his body guards named Gabriel to HIS specially chosen Muhammad
Indeed! The bottom line is that there is no undeniable proof - no conclusive evidence - that the Qur'an is Gods word. What evidence is there - is not conclusive. It boils down to whether you believe it or not.
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Indeed! The bottom line is that there is no undeniable proof - no conclusive evidence - that the Qur'an is Gods word. What evidence is there - is not conclusive. It boils down to whether you believe it or not.
There you go. You've finally confirmed the only reason you're here for.
Sincerely,
Deluded Loony Fringe -
O, so its all about Internet, eh, so people like you can LIE AND DECEIVE THE HELL OFF and then talk about reality. I get it? On the contrary, if its not in the Quran it cannot possibly be anywhere written or said? Who told you that? Your fake "god" written in the Quran 1500 years ago? What a shame? Once again, you claim to know it all yet a minute ago you claimed that you don't know. This is the height of LIES and DECEIT coming from YOUR END, the MUSLIMS of the 21st Century? Welcome to the New Age Modern Islam, better than before. BRAVO!!!
I advise you to visit a health clinic, high blood pressure does nobody good.
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There you go. You've finally confirmed the only reason you're here for. )
Sincerely,
Deluded Loony FringeSince coming here people keep speculating about why I am here. Why is everyone so paranoid? Why does it matter why I am here? - is this place for anyone or do you exclude certain people?
Actually I'm not sure why I'm here - but I do know that if my life was sorted, happy and I wasn't going through a very difficult time personally I wouldn't be spending my time on internet forums.
People who spend so much time on the internet clearly have something wrong withe their lives in the 'real world'.
I admit my life is going through a massive upheaval and I am at times very depressed, lonley. I am without doubt a lost soul.
Why are you and OPF and others here?
It seems wierd to me that people should spend so much time obsessing and arguing with people to try and prove they are right - and seems to indicate a great amount of doubts, insecurity or other problems - or frankly you wouldn't spend so much time on the internet - it simply isn't normal.
(and yes I know I include my self - but I admit my life is a mess)
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Since coming here people keep speculating about why I am here. Why is everyone so paranoid? Why does it matter why I am here? - is this place for anyone or do you exclude certain people?
Who's paranoid?
It's clear some are here solely for their agendas or to prove something to themselves so they can feel good about themselves.
Actually I'm not sure why I'm here - but I do know that if my life was sorted, happy and I wasn't going through a very difficult time personally I wouldn't be spending my time on internet forums.
People who spend so much time on the internet clearly have something wrong withe their lives in the 'real world'.
Oh yes, clearly....?
I admit my life is going through a massive upheaval and I am at times very depressed, lonley. I am without doubt a lost soul.
So spending time on internet forums is synonymous with being a lost soul or having a messed up life. Got it.
Why are you and OPF and others here?
I am here to improve my understanding of the quran and grow as a muslim (sorry if I/we have beliefs, cd, genteel). Others, on the other hand, seem to come here solely to prove something to themselves and others.
People act as if we invaded another forum and are trying to prove following only the quran is right or something. This is our forum. Anyone is welcome here, but slander is not. And again, it's painfully clear some have agendas.
It seems wierd to me that people should spend so much time obsessing and arguing with people to try and prove they are right - and seems to indicate a great amount of doubts, insecurity or other problems - or frankly you wouldn't spend so much time on the internet - it simply isn't normal.
(and yes I know I include my self - but I admit my life is a mess)
Ok.
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It seems wierd to me that people should spend so much time obsessing and arguing with people to try and prove they are right
So what? If you don't want people to do this, don't challenge them! It's very simple.
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So what? If you don't want people to do this, don't challenge them! It's very simple.
Oh I don't mind - or I wouldn't still be here would I.
But at least I admit that spending so much time typing out long and involved replies and obsessing on each little quote is wierd, unhealthy and indiciative of something wrong in a persons life.
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It's clear some are here solely for their agendas or to prove something to themselves so they can feel good about themselves.
Some?
Most.
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Oh I don't mind - or I wouldn't still be here would I.
But at least I admit that spending so much time typing out long and involved replies and obsessing on each little quote is wierd, unhealthy and indiciative of something wrong in a persons life.
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Welcome to the interweb. I guess you won't want to touch newsgroups then.
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Welcome to the interweb. I guess you won't want to touch newsgroups then.
To be honest the sooner I get off internet forums and get my life back in order - the better.
These places are like an alchohol or drug addiction.
Not healthy.
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Well, I'm on the same page as you on that one...
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People typing out long thought-out posts indicates to me that they are eager to discuss things and like to share/gain knowledge. But if that tells you that there is something wrong in their personal life then alright. Seems like a strange conclusion.
Not surprising coming from someone who bases things strictly on emotional appeal and has no regard whatsoever for evidence... and hastily refers to people as deluded loony fringes.
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Not surprising coming from someone who bases things strictly on emotional appeal and has no regard whatsoever for evidence... and hastily refers to people as deluded loony fringes.
I believe I apologised for that and have never mentioned it since.
I don't think it is fair that you have now held that against me twice recently.
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Cosmic Dancer,
Then you make claims that GOD punish people solely on mental belief which i have proven wrong according to the Koran
I am not convinced in the slightest by your arguments.
It is clear you simply want to believe whatever you want and don't want to reason. I thought you would actually be someone who will reason and use the intellect rationally. I showed you many references and explicit examples in the QURAN (and in th Bible) that according to these books, GOD doesn't punish people solely on mental cognitive belief but the deeds produced. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that that factual evidence. So it is clear, you really don't want to reason and be logical.
This is not "anecdotal" and subjective but can be scientifically measured.
For example, evidence are within the US prison system where studies have shown inmates who have access to church, masjid, and other religious services are less violent and more compliant within the prison system than those you dont have access to these services. This is a direct relation to the belief in GOD and acting base on that belief.I would be interested to read this study - do you have a link or a reference?
These studies are numerous and have substantial evidence the link faith and belief to deeds and behavior. Shoot, just google "Faith Rehabilitation." However, like i state previously, it seems you don't want to reason and be logical that deeds follow belief (and that the Quran and other religious scripture testifies to this). Here is just just one
"......A study of the effectiveness of a key faith-based prisoner rehabilitation program has found that graduates of the program are less likely to return to a life of crime."
http//pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=2333The concept of Hell basically imprisonment (312, 2222, 3220).
How do you explain the verses that describe in graphic detail excrutiating tortures, such as having one's skin burnt of repeatedly or boiling fluid poured on the head.
Is that your idea of imprisonment?
I dont know why I thought you would actually be reasonable. it is clear you NEVER been in a prison (especially an US prison). Ask any inmate or ex-inmate if he was tortured, and you will hopefully eliminate that stupid idea that human don't "torture" prisons. As a matter of , according to Bush, it was one of the reason to attack Saddan and is "believe" by US official to a good method to get information from "terrorist." This naive idea you have the humans don't torture nor apply torture as an effective method is....stupid.
With regards to your claims in of the Quran detailing torture to humans is idiotic and somewhat sad. Like I said, all Hell verse AT ITS CORE are warnings. That particular verse symbolically states the fact the the retribution doesn't stop nor ease but continues and is constant. Is it logical for GOD to burn off skin than put new skins just to burn those new one off and continue this process over and over?!?! Is this logical from a Being whose creation expressive great effectiveness and EFFICIENCY. Or isnt that statement an effective way to communicate to humans constant retribution? Is it not an analogical statement suggesting continues retribution? Come on Cosmic Dancer. Be logical. be reasonable please.
And honestly, lets be realistic, torture or no torture, hell or not hell........ if a being is most wise, most just, most merciful, and kind, know all things, prefect in all aspects, do you really think such a being CANNOT justify punishing, torturing, and delivering retribution to a person?!?! be logical CosmicDancer.
I will not apologies for the Quran. If you read a verse like that and it causes you to leave your faith after 20years (yet the book contain many other positives and a great mathemtical sign), then it clear the issue is not about GOD, Hell, or Heaven, but you.
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Ask any inmate or ex-inmate if he was tortured, and you will hopefully eliminate that stupid idea that human don't "torture" prisons.
Torture is not acceptable to any decent human being.
Are you saying God is like a corrupt and cruel earthly ruler?
Is it logical for GOD to burn off skin than put new skins just to burn those new one off and continue this process over and over?!?! Is this logical from a Being whose creation expressive great effectiveness and EFFICIENCY. Or isnt that statement an effective way to communicate to humans constant retribution?
Ahh... I see thanks.
So whenGod says he will burn skins of unbelievers and replace them, over and over again, it is really a metaphore for some other form of indescribable torture.
That makes it much better - thanks.
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Torture is not acceptable to any decent human being.
Are you saying God is like a corrupt and cruel earthly ruler?
Ahh... I see thanks.
So when God says he will burn skins of unbelievers and replace them, over and over again, it is really a metaphore for some other form of indescribable torture.
That makes it much better - thanks.
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No, corrupt and cruel earthly rulers torture innocents; God only punishes the guilty.
Quick question; where did you get your definitions of decent, corrupt, and cruel?
Why is stuff like this cruel?
http//www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm
The Holy Trinity
When a sinner had "blasphemed the holy name of god", or when he had perhaps told some truth about the local priest, it was customary to apply the holy trinity. The Iron mask was heated in an open fire until red hot, then put upon his head. The scourge, also red hot, was then applied to his back. After the mask had cooled, it was removed from the sinner, taking skin (and usually eyeballs) with it. The prisoner's mouth was then opened and red hot pincers were used to remove the prisoner's tongue.
If a person has no conscience and authority over others without fear of reprisal; then any act can be explained and justified in the mind of a tormentor. That was the case throughout history and very evident today; what is to stop them?
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No, corrupt and cruel earthly rulers torture innocents
Regardless of who they punish torture is unacceptable.
God only punishes the guilty
The Qur'an says God will repeatedly burn unbelievers.
If you think they deserve that - good for you.