Hell
-
So what? If you don't want people to do this, don't challenge them! It's very simple.
Oh I don't mind - or I wouldn't still be here would I.
But at least I admit that spending so much time typing out long and involved replies and obsessing on each little quote is wierd, unhealthy and indiciative of something wrong in a persons life.
-
It's clear some are here solely for their agendas or to prove something to themselves so they can feel good about themselves.
Some?
Most.
-
Oh I don't mind - or I wouldn't still be here would I.
But at least I admit that spending so much time typing out long and involved replies and obsessing on each little quote is wierd, unhealthy and indiciative of something wrong in a persons life.
)
Welcome to the interweb. I guess you won't want to touch newsgroups then.
-
Welcome to the interweb. I guess you won't want to touch newsgroups then.
To be honest the sooner I get off internet forums and get my life back in order - the better.
These places are like an alchohol or drug addiction.
Not healthy.
-
Well, I'm on the same page as you on that one...
-
People typing out long thought-out posts indicates to me that they are eager to discuss things and like to share/gain knowledge. But if that tells you that there is something wrong in their personal life then alright. Seems like a strange conclusion.
Not surprising coming from someone who bases things strictly on emotional appeal and has no regard whatsoever for evidence... and hastily refers to people as deluded loony fringes.
-
Not surprising coming from someone who bases things strictly on emotional appeal and has no regard whatsoever for evidence... and hastily refers to people as deluded loony fringes.
I believe I apologised for that and have never mentioned it since.
I don't think it is fair that you have now held that against me twice recently.
-
Cosmic Dancer,
Then you make claims that GOD punish people solely on mental belief which i have proven wrong according to the Koran
I am not convinced in the slightest by your arguments.
It is clear you simply want to believe whatever you want and don't want to reason. I thought you would actually be someone who will reason and use the intellect rationally. I showed you many references and explicit examples in the QURAN (and in th Bible) that according to these books, GOD doesn't punish people solely on mental cognitive belief but the deeds produced. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that that factual evidence. So it is clear, you really don't want to reason and be logical.
This is not "anecdotal" and subjective but can be scientifically measured.
For example, evidence are within the US prison system where studies have shown inmates who have access to church, masjid, and other religious services are less violent and more compliant within the prison system than those you dont have access to these services. This is a direct relation to the belief in GOD and acting base on that belief.I would be interested to read this study - do you have a link or a reference?
These studies are numerous and have substantial evidence the link faith and belief to deeds and behavior. Shoot, just google "Faith Rehabilitation." However, like i state previously, it seems you don't want to reason and be logical that deeds follow belief (and that the Quran and other religious scripture testifies to this). Here is just just one
"......A study of the effectiveness of a key faith-based prisoner rehabilitation program has found that graduates of the program are less likely to return to a life of crime."
http//pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=2333The concept of Hell basically imprisonment (312, 2222, 3220).
How do you explain the verses that describe in graphic detail excrutiating tortures, such as having one's skin burnt of repeatedly or boiling fluid poured on the head.
Is that your idea of imprisonment?
I dont know why I thought you would actually be reasonable. it is clear you NEVER been in a prison (especially an US prison). Ask any inmate or ex-inmate if he was tortured, and you will hopefully eliminate that stupid idea that human don't "torture" prisons. As a matter of , according to Bush, it was one of the reason to attack Saddan and is "believe" by US official to a good method to get information from "terrorist." This naive idea you have the humans don't torture nor apply torture as an effective method is....stupid.
With regards to your claims in of the Quran detailing torture to humans is idiotic and somewhat sad. Like I said, all Hell verse AT ITS CORE are warnings. That particular verse symbolically states the fact the the retribution doesn't stop nor ease but continues and is constant. Is it logical for GOD to burn off skin than put new skins just to burn those new one off and continue this process over and over?!?! Is this logical from a Being whose creation expressive great effectiveness and EFFICIENCY. Or isnt that statement an effective way to communicate to humans constant retribution? Is it not an analogical statement suggesting continues retribution? Come on Cosmic Dancer. Be logical. be reasonable please.
And honestly, lets be realistic, torture or no torture, hell or not hell........ if a being is most wise, most just, most merciful, and kind, know all things, prefect in all aspects, do you really think such a being CANNOT justify punishing, torturing, and delivering retribution to a person?!?! be logical CosmicDancer.
I will not apologies for the Quran. If you read a verse like that and it causes you to leave your faith after 20years (yet the book contain many other positives and a great mathemtical sign), then it clear the issue is not about GOD, Hell, or Heaven, but you.
-
Ask any inmate or ex-inmate if he was tortured, and you will hopefully eliminate that stupid idea that human don't "torture" prisons.
Torture is not acceptable to any decent human being.
Are you saying God is like a corrupt and cruel earthly ruler?
Is it logical for GOD to burn off skin than put new skins just to burn those new one off and continue this process over and over?!?! Is this logical from a Being whose creation expressive great effectiveness and EFFICIENCY. Or isnt that statement an effective way to communicate to humans constant retribution?
Ahh... I see thanks.
So whenGod says he will burn skins of unbelievers and replace them, over and over again, it is really a metaphore for some other form of indescribable torture.
That makes it much better - thanks.
)
-
Torture is not acceptable to any decent human being.
Are you saying God is like a corrupt and cruel earthly ruler?
Ahh... I see thanks.
So when God says he will burn skins of unbelievers and replace them, over and over again, it is really a metaphore for some other form of indescribable torture.
That makes it much better - thanks.
)
No, corrupt and cruel earthly rulers torture innocents; God only punishes the guilty.
Quick question; where did you get your definitions of decent, corrupt, and cruel?
Why is stuff like this cruel?
http//www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm
The Holy Trinity
When a sinner had "blasphemed the holy name of god", or when he had perhaps told some truth about the local priest, it was customary to apply the holy trinity. The Iron mask was heated in an open fire until red hot, then put upon his head. The scourge, also red hot, was then applied to his back. After the mask had cooled, it was removed from the sinner, taking skin (and usually eyeballs) with it. The prisoner's mouth was then opened and red hot pincers were used to remove the prisoner's tongue.
If a person has no conscience and authority over others without fear of reprisal; then any act can be explained and justified in the mind of a tormentor. That was the case throughout history and very evident today; what is to stop them?
-
No, corrupt and cruel earthly rulers torture innocents
Regardless of who they punish torture is unacceptable.
God only punishes the guilty
The Qur'an says God will repeatedly burn unbelievers.
If you think they deserve that - good for you.
-
So when God says he will burn skins of unbelievers and replace them, over and over again, it is really a metaphore for some other form of indescribable torture.
CosmicDancer, where is your proof that GOD torture people? Where is your evidence of this?
-
Cosmic Dancer,
Regardless of who they punish torture is unacceptable.
where is you proof that GOD will torture people in the Quran?
Also, where is you proof that the term "torture" is used in the Quran or the bible of something?
Please present a reference of something.. thanks -
CosmicDancer, where is your proof that GOD torture people? Where is your evidence of this?
I don't believe God tortures people.
The Qur'an (which I don't believe in) says God tortures people. Here are a few verses
I will drive him into Hellfire. And what can make you know what is Hellfire? It lets nothing remain and leaves nothing (unburned), altering the skins. (7426-29)
"As for those who reject Our Signs, We will roast them in a Fire. Every time their skins are burned off, We will replace them with new skins so that they can taste the punishment" (456)
"As for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured over their heads, melting that which is in their bellies and their skins too, and for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape they are driven back therein and (it will be said) Taste the doom of burning." (2219-22)
-
peace
http//mwillett.org/atheism/eternal.htm
here's an article I found...I agree with it to some extent.
As I mentioned before, I used to have nightmares about heaven. I have never particularly liked the idea of an eternal heaven.
We all hate death, but that's what makes life worth it. The realization that one day all of this will end so we better get on with it.
And we all hate conflicts and problems, but those are what make life interesting. Would our goals mean anything if we would achieve them with a snap of our fingers?
But wait...would we even have goals? What's the point of life without goals?
Life in heaven will just be living and living and living and living and living and living..... -
As I mentioned before, I used to have nightmares about heaven. I have never particularly liked the idea of an eternal heaven.
Me too, I'm surprised someone else got affected like I did. It would make me shudder just thinking about it. Fear of eternity is worse than any other fear.
-
peace
http//mwillett.org/atheism/eternal.htm
here's an article I found...I agree with it to some extent.
As I mentioned before, I used to have nightmares about heaven. I have never particularly liked the idea of an eternal heaven.
We all hate death, but that's what makes life worth it. The realization that one day all of this will end so we better get on with it.
And we all hate conflicts and problems, but those are what make life interesting. Would our goals mean anything if we would achieve them with a snap of our fingers?
But wait...would we even have goals? What's the point of life without goals?
Life in heaven will just be living and living and living and living and living and living.....Thought provoking and amusing article. Thanks for linking bro.
I assume you know Urdu, so it follows that you would've heard of this
zidd hain
ab toh hain khud ko mitana
hona hain tujhmein fanaaWhich read "There is determinition, now there is for me to erase myself, to become annihilated within you."
What does it mean to be annihilated within your beloved? Think about it. As one singer puts it
Mein ishq da piyala pee aaya.
Ek pal mein sadiyan jee aayaWhich reads "I drank from the cup of love; In a moment I lived for centuries."
Could this experience be juxtaposed with the hereafter?
I mean, don't you wish that the moment lasted forever when you're intimate with your loved one?
Shouldn't the same go for god?
Nadeem
-
Me too, I'm surprised someone else got affected like I did. It would make me shudder just thinking about it. Fear of eternity is worse than any other fear.
I find it scary too. Eternity blows my mind - I can't get my head round it.