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  2. Critical Examination of Islam
  3. Quranic Divinity
  4. Starjade Sura 4:82 challenges the whole of Islam.

Starjade Sura 4:82 challenges the whole of Islam.

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  • E Offline
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    Elke
    wrote on last edited by
    #4

    lol
    how about errors in the deuteronomy?
    and how come you only give links to pages that don't work?
    no good technique for a prophet but for doomsday it's enough

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      unknownuser
      wrote on last edited by
      #5

      The Links should work. Copy cut and paste them and Type them into your search engine.

      The conversations were taking place at Conspiracy Central. But Horseonwheels wanted me to come here and challenge all of you. I reckon that freedom of discussion is not likely on an islamic website and those conversations already have reached their 19 page on Conspiracy central. No Muslim on any web site yet has been able to defend islam or the Koran or the claims of Muhammad from my Revelations. I ask that you bring along all of your islamic scholars and all your imams and your islamic leaders and make sure they know what has been said here and is being said elswhere by the much loved Deuteronomy Doomsday prophet Starjade.

      Warn them I am not a Novice and Muslims goaded me to challenge islam and on that very day over 1000 Muslims bit the Dust powerless against my religious Revelations. The Sura 482 of the Koran admits that if any errors are found in the Koran then that is the proof that the Koran does not come from God. That fact alone also shows that Muhammad has been decieving you all and is a fraud. Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verses 15 onwards law already established Muhammad as being a fraud thousands of years ago. You need two or three witnesses to prove a thing to be true. You Muslims cannot ignore Deuteronomy law because that law was brought down by Moses from the Living God himself and is therefore the actual word of the Living god.

      We all know Muhammad has no witnesses for his claims.

      http//www.geocities.com/end_of_times/

      http//conspiracycentral.info/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=18 Religion and occult.

      By the way in case you do not know the word occult means that which is hidden.

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        Al-Quraishi
        wrote on last edited by
        #6

        Well hello there everyone.

        Well hello there.

        My name is Starjade I am the Deuteronomy Doomsday prophet Starjade.

        Nice to meet you Starjade, Deuteronomy Prophet eh? Er, we'll discuss that a little later, right now we'll deal with what you came on the forum for.

        As he would not come here to invite you to help those Muslims on that web site I have come here to issue the Sura 482 challenge and invite you to take part in those conversations if you dare.

        Ok then, I pluck up the courage to converse about this issue with you.

        Be wary now for I am not a novice and to this day no Muslim has been able to defend the Koran or the claims of Muhammad from my God given Revelations

        Don't worry, I have been sufficiently warned by you, I shall be weary. &

        So let's start shall we? We need to clear some things up first

        http//conspiracycentral.info/index.php?showtopic=14194&view=getnewpost

        Your link's broke.

        There is a law in the religion of Islam that says if you know something that is not true then you must be unafraid, stand up, and state it.

        Please source this law.

        I am invoking this Islamic law to open up serious religious discussions and Revelations with Muslims.

        If you are invoking Islamic law, then if someone proves you wrong does that mean you will abide by it's judgements?

        The facts are that if just one error exists in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran does not come from God.

        Well according to what you've just said, the facts don't state that.

        You said

        Sura 482 of the Koran says; Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein.

        Please take the time to read what you're posting in order that you may stop contradicting yourself, the verse says that if it isn't from God then surely they would find much discrepancy therein, you will need to elaborate on your claim of

        The facts are that if just one error exists in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran does not come from God.

        Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I disagree with you, you just need to backup your claims, that's all.

        Of course it is known by history and many religious scholars that the god that Muhammad gave his worship to was in fact Hubal al'ilah, a pagan moon god worshipped throughout the middle east and Hubal al?ilah goes by many names one of them being that of Sin. The origin of to worship in Sin.

        Please back this up with facts.

        However, the reference in the Sura 482 of the Koran when it mentions Allah was obviously meant to mean the living God of Abraham and of Moses. The reason why that must be so is because the name Allah means the Supreme God and it is well known that there is only one true Living God and that is the Living God of Abraham and of Moses.

        The pretence of Islam in today?s world is that Muslims are now giving worship to that living God of Moses. When in fact they hide the truth and give their worship to Hubal al?ilah the false pagan moon god. Worshipping in Sin.

        These two paragraphs contradict your previous claim.

        In reply to the Muslim who challenged me with the Sura 482. I wrote out 21 errors that exist in the Koran that to this day stand undisputed. A link to those 21 errors in the Koran is linked below.

        Well Starjade, quite conveniently (or unconveniently depending on how you look at it) your second link does not work

        http//www.geocities.com/end_of_times/surahfoureighthytwo.ht

        Oh but wait, it does! You seemed to have put a rather bizarre space between ht and ml! I wonder why that is? How bizarre! confused

        When those Muslims goaded me to challenge Islam with my Revelations, I accepted that challenge however, I challenged the whole of Islam and not just a few and the Islamic law I have invoked states you will have to reject the Koran and the claims of Muhammad. If you do not then what kind of Muslim does that make you.? I say it would make you a Kuffar shirking idolizer of a false prophet who was presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name. That then makes you all guilty of blasphemy and that something detestable in the eyes of the Living God.

        Starjade may I humbly offer some advice? Instead of insulting people, why don't you please elaborate, what is the true religion and who are it's true followers?

        You're throwing some BIG accusations around Starjade. Some BIG accusations.

        Be very wary now for many religious scholars have come before you trying to dispute the Revelations I have given and the many errors that exist in the Koran and the word of Muhammad in a futile attempt to defend Islam. Every one of them has bitten the Dust. I am not a Novice and I suggest you go tell your imams and Islamic scholars what I have said here and dare them to come online to face me.

        As I said, I shall be wary, but please, where are the records and proof of these so many religious scholars who have been proven wrong by you? Please provide us with links to your arguments for the sake of your own reputation.

        Be aware that when I speak of the Living God. I am speaking of the Living White Sphere that lives beyond the Veil of the Abyss in deep space, and there is only one living God.

        Ok, we'll converse this whole Qur'an discrepancy thing, then after that I am very interested to hear more about the Living White Sphere that lives beyond the Veil of the Abyss in deep space and all your other beliefs.

        are you afraid of Starjade's Sura 482 Challenge.

        I personally am not afraid, to me this is not a ego contest, I will welcome any enlightnement I can gain from conversing, debating and rationalising with others on this forum. Unfortunately from the way you're posting it looks like this is one big ego contest.

        So no Starjade - I am not afraid.

        I advise that you go seek the advice off an Islamic scholar or your Imam before you dare to take me on.

        Unfortunately I do not have access to an Islamic scholar or my Imam in time for me to 'dare to take you on' you're confusing me now as the original invitation was to converse, so I take it this is an ego contest?

        However, do warn them that I am religiously superior to all of them combined and I will certainly eat them, the Koran, and the silly claims of Muhammad for breakfast.

        Ok - will do. &

        I'm going to read your working links with interest, in the meantime, could you please respond to my post.

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          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #7

          LOL.

          By the way, messengers don't usually hide behind online nicknames

          So, go outside, proclaim your prophethood as you wish, and let the men in white coats deal with it.

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            Arnold
            wrote on last edited by
            #8

            Please take the time to read what you're posting in order that you may stop contradicting yourself, the verse says that if it isn't from God then surely they would find much discrepancy therein, you will need to elaborate on your claim of

            I do find much discrepancy. I think it says the earth is flat, the sky is a physical covering or canopy, the sun orbits the earth and meteors are thrown at things or fired at things. To me, a 21st century person, this is much discrepancy, just like it says one will find. Muhammad just didn't realize it back then. After all, how could he? Who would have ever guessed the true nature of meteorites as dust and debris? I wouldn't have. It's totally counter to what the naked eye tells us. Who would have guessed that the flames supposedly shooting across the sky were not a sign of the protection of the lowest heaven, as the Quran clearly says, but rather are actually a sign of the protection of the earth? But that's what it is. And yet the Quran got this backwards as most people's intuition and naked eye would as well. Allah had a 7th century understanding of the cosmos. Clearly.

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              Navid
              wrote on last edited by
              #9

              D

              I have yet to see any INTERNAL contradictions with the quran. The quran contradicting the bible does not mean the quran is contradictory. Sorry (

              peace

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                Bahman
                wrote on last edited by
                #10

                Peace DDS
                You may understand meaning of Islam and Muslims. You falsely consider Mohammedans (shia and Sunnis)
                Correct your article using Islam ( submission to God Alone 319) then I would consider to listen to your 500 claims using cyber id as prophet ???
                Peace.

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                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #11

                  Starjade Quote
                  Well hello there everyone.

                  Al-Quraishi you said; Well hello there.

                  Starjade says; hello again Al-Quraishi. I have saved your post to disc as my computer Time is running out. I will read and reply to all of it please have patience.

                  My name is Starjade I am the Deuteronomy Doomsday prophet Starjade.

                  Al-Quraishi you said; Nice to meet you Starjade, Deuteronomy Prophet eh? Er, we'll discuss that a little later, right now we'll deal with what you came on the forum for.

                  Starjade says; Well we shall see? Yes Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 15/18 Doomsday prophet. That very specific Deuteronomy Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up in the midst of the Jews. I do not doubt you find that hard to believe but it can and already has been established by the law of Deuteronomy chapter 19 verses 15 onwards. The evidence. http//www.geocities.com/end_of_times/chaptertwo.htm
                  By the way all those links worked on this forum when I tried them. So I know they work. Sometimes the web site can get overloaded and gives a non display thingy. Try again in about 1 hour if that happens. OK.
                  Starjade says; Oh goody you want to challenge my claim to being that Deuteronomy Prophet. Wonderful. I love chatting about that fact. Be wary though for unbelievable as it sounds I am genuine. I have left a link above to show the evidence in according with Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verses 15 law. And I am also a part of this equation.
                  I am writing a Sura 482 challenge on conspiracy central. The challenge is 20 pages long already. The Muslims there do not respect Islamic law or the Sura 482 of the Koran. This web site got a mention so I asked Horseonewheels to come and invite all you Muslims to come to conspiracy central and attempt to defend the Koran and the silly claims of Muhammad from my God given revelations.
                  He thought you were all the ones for that task. I say it is impossible for any muslim on this planet to defend the Koran or the silly claims of Muhammad from my Revelations that already have proven that the Koran does not come from God and that Muhammad is a liar and a fraud and presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name. I left a link so you can find the Sura 482 challenge in the religion and occult section. I invite all your Islamic scholars and imams and Islamic leaders to come and give your accounts and attempt to defend the Koran and the silly claims of Muhammad from this Sura 4 82 challenge.

                  Horseonwheels said you can but would not come here to invite the followers of islam into those conversations. So I came here in person to issue the Sura; 4-82 challenge to you personally. Already those Sura 482 conversations are in full swing and as usual islam and the Koran and the silly claims of Muhammad have bitten the Dust. So why not come to Conspiracy central and shows me what you all have got.

                  Conspiracy Central.
                  http//conspiracycentral.info/index.php?showtopic=14194&view=getnewpost

                  Starjade Quote
                  As he would not come here to invite you to help those Muslims on that web site I have come here to issue the Sura 482 challenge and invite you to take part in those conversations if you dare.

                  Al-Quraishi you said; Ok then, I pluck up the courage to converse about this issue with you.

                  Starjade laughs; be wary now I am not a novice and many have come before you so very many and they were also Islamic experts. They all bit the Dust. Come to Conspiracy Central and read what you will have to face before you count your chickens. I am most formidable.

                  Starjade Quote
                  Be wary now for I am not a novice and to this day no Muslim has been able to defend the Koran or the claims of Muhammad from my God given Revelations

                  Al-Quraishi you said; Don't worry, I have been sufficiently warned by you, I shall be weary.

                  Starjade says; I think you mean wary but will become weary.

                  Al-Quraishi you said; So let's start shall we? We need to clear some things up first Quote http//conspiracycentral.info/index.php?showtopic=14194&view=getnewpost
                  Your link's broke.

                  Starjade says; I have re linked you. You will have to register. Its only takes a minute then searth the forum for religion and occult. Those links worked already with me. But yesterday they did have a glitch on their computer when I returned to it after posting here. It has since cleared. http//conspiracycentral.info/index.php?showtopic=14194&view=getnewpost

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                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #12

                    Quote
                    There is a law in the religion of Islam that says if you know something that is not true then you must be unafraid, stand up, and state it.

                    Al-Quraishi you said; Please source this law.

                    Starjade says; This is a law that has been quoted to me by Islamic experts. Several different Muslims have quoted that law to me in the early days of my learning about the religion of islam. The law is genuine and you would have to go ask your imam for its source. The Muslims who goaded me to challenge islam with my revelations asked if I would object to only speaking of the religion of Islam under that Islamic law. So we all agreed. The matter would then be discussed and whatever is found to be false must be rejected as being false and whatever is found to be true must be accepted as being true.

                    You do realise then if you take on this challenge you would and should have to reject the Koran and the claims of Muhammad. Neither came from nor were they sent from God and this is a fact that is already proven. My computer Time is ending. So I shall have to reply to the rest of what you have said on another day. Meanwhile on conspiracy central I have said a whole lot more. Please do read all 20 pages to catch up on what has been said. Then reply if you dare and if you can. Take care Byeee (pop) gone?

                    P.S. Love the collection of smilies.

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                      afridi220
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #13

                      Starjade says; This is a law that has been quoted to me by Islamic experts. Several different Muslims have quoted that law to me in the early days of my learning about the religion of islam. The law is genuine and you would have to go ask your imam for its source. The Muslims who goaded me to challenge islam with my revelations asked if I would object to only speaking of the religion of Islam under that Islamic law. So we all agreed. The matter would then be discussed and whatever is found to be false must be rejected as being false and whatever is found to be true must be accepted as being true.

                      You do realise then if you take on this challenge you would and should have to reject the Koran and the claims of Muhammad. Neither came from nor were they sent from God and this is a fact that is already proven. My computer Time is ending. So I shall have to reply to the rest of what you have said on another day. Meanwhile on conspiracy central I have said a whole lot more. Please do read all 20 pages to catch up on what has been said. Then reply if you dare and if you can. Take care Byeee (pop) gone?

                      P.S. Love the collection of smilies.

                      Your claims and challenges are mere bluff and you need a head doctor

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                        savage_carrot
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #14

                        This is a law that has been quoted to me by Islamic experts. Several different Muslims have quoted that law to me in the early days of my learning about the religion of islam. The law is genuine and you would have to go ask your imam for its source.

                        Imams decide the laws lol. Have fun Quraishi, don't say we didn't warn you!

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                          Arnold
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #15

                          D

                          I have yet to see any INTERNAL contradictions with the quran. The quran contradicting the bible does not mean the quran is contradictory. Sorry

                          peace

                          I do find much discrepancy. I think it says the earth is flat, the sky is a physical covering or canopy, the sun orbits the earth and meteors are thrown at things or fired at things. To me, a 21st century person, this is much discrepancy, just like it says one will find. Muhammad just didn't realize it back then. After all, how could he? Who would have ever guessed the true nature of meteorites as dust and debris? I wouldn't have. It's totally counter to what the naked eye tells us. Who would have guessed that the flames supposedly shooting across the sky were not a sign of the protection of the lowest heaven, as the Quran clearly says, but rather are actually a sign of the protection of the earth? But that's what it is. And yet the Quran got this backwards as most people's intuition and naked eye would as well. Allah had a 7th century understanding of the cosmos. Clearly.

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                            Navid
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #16

                            I do find much discrepancy. I think it says the earth is flat, the sky is a physical covering or canopy, the sun orbits the earth and meteors are thrown at things or fired at things. To me, a 21st century person, this is much discrepancy, just like it says one will find. Muhammad just didn't realize it back then. After all, how could he? Who would have ever guessed the true nature of meteorites as dust and debris? I wouldn't have. It's totally counter to what the naked eye tells us. Who would have guessed that the flames supposedly shooting across the sky were not a sign of the protection of the lowest heaven, as the Quran clearly says, but rather are actually a sign of the protection of the earth? But that's what it is. And yet the Quran got this backwards as most people's intuition and naked eye would as well. Allah had a 7th century understanding of the cosmos. Clearly.

                            Wow, nice choice of words (bold).

                            Bring forth verses, with the Arabic, and show us every error you speak of, if you are truthful. In the other thread, it has already been proven that it DOES NOT mean "flat." There is no getting around this. However, instead of openmindedly admitting a mistake, you continue to grasp the straws.

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                              Arnold
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #17

                              Wow, nice choice of words (bold).

                              Bring forth verses, with the Arabic, and show us every error you speak of, if you are truthful. In the other thread, it has already been proven that it DOES NOT mean "flat."

                              Ummm...no it hasn't yet. Did you see my response? Do you think any old answer constitutes a refutation? I don't think so. Read my response. Just because someone can type words, doesn't mean the point has been answered for as much as you appear to wish it was.

                              There is no getting around this. However, instead of openmindedly admitting a mistake, you continue to grasp the straws.

                              What mistake? Be very specific and very clear. So far, it's not there.

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                                Navid
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #18

                                Ummm...no it hasn't yet. Did you see my response? Do you think any old answer constitutes a refutation? I don't think so. Read my response. Just because someone can type words, doesn't mean the point has been answered for as much as you appear to wish it was.

                                What mistake? Be very specific and very clear. So far, it's not there.

                                There is no mention of anyhting flat. None. You are only left with manipulation to get the meaning you want.

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #19

                                  Your claims and challenges are mere bluff and you need a head doctor P

                                  Starjade says; I am here challenging the whole of islam and inviting you to bring along all your islamic scholars and imams and your most hard core wanna cut your head of muslims to defend the koran and the claims of Muhammad. It would be foolish of you to think I was bluffing. I can walk the walk and talk the talk and everything I do with regards to religious matters is something I take very seriously. Do not let my sense of humour sway you. I am the challenger of Islam and it is Islam that is always biting the Dust.

                                  It seems you Muslims are not as religious as you claim. Why would you be afraid to back your mouths up on your islamic claims. The Sura 482 is that chance to get things out in the open. One way or another. Either islam is true or it is presumptuous to think it can speak in Gods name.

                                  Now I am prepared to back my mouth up. So what about you. Dont you think your religion is strong enough to stand against just one man. Or do you already realise I am going to eat you all for breakfast. eat rotfl

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                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #20

                                    Wow, nice choice of words (bold).

                                    Bring forth verses, with the Arabic, and show us every error you speak of, if you are truthful. In the other thread, it has already been proven that it DOES NOT mean "flat." There is no getting around this. However, instead of openmindedly admitting a mistake, you continue to grasp the straws.

                                    Starjade laughs; Oh not the old must be in Arabic ploy. The Koran is not written in pure Arabic and never has been.

                                    There are many foreign words or phrases which are employed in the Qur'an, some of which have no Arabic equivalent, and others which do.

                                    Arthur Jeffrey, in his book Foreign Vocabulary of the , has gathered some 300 pages dealing with foreign words in the Qur'an, many of which must have been used in pre-Qur'anic Arabic, but quite a number also which must have been used little or not at all before they were included in the Qur'an. One must wonder why these words were borrowed, as it puts doubt on whether "Allah's language" is sufficient enough to explain and reveal all that Allah had intended. Some of the foreign words include

                                    a. Pharaoh an Egyptian word which means king or potentate, which is repeated in the Qur'an 84 times.

                                    b. Adam and Eden Accadian words which are repeated 24 times. A more correct term for "Adam" in Arabic would be basharan or insan, meaning "mankind." "Eden" would be the word janna in Arabic, which means "garden."

                                    c. Abraham (sometimes recorded as Ibrahim) comes from the Assyrian language. The correct Arabic equivalent would be Abu Raheem.

                                    d. Persian words

                                    i. Haroot and Maroot are Persian names for angels.
                                    ii. Sirat meaning "the path" has the Arabic equivalent, Altareeq.
                                    iii. Hoor meaning "disciple" has the Arabic equivalent, Tilmeeth.
                                    iv. Jinn meaning "good or evil demons" has the Arabic equivalent, Ruh. v.Firdaus meaning "the highest or seventh heaven" has the Arabic equivalent, Jannah.

                                    e. Syriac words Taboot, Taghouth, Zakat, Malakout are all Syriac words which have been borrowed and included in the 'Arabic' Qur'an.

                                    f. Hebrew words Heber, Sakinah, Maoon, Taurat, Jehannim, Tufan (deluge) are all Hebrew words which have been borrowed and included in the 'Arabic' Qur'an.

                                    g. Greek words Injil, which means "gospel" was borrowed, yet it has the Arabic equivalent, Bisharah. Iblis is not Arabic, but a corruption of the Greek word Diabolos.

                                    h. Christian Aramaic Qiyama is the Aramaic word for resurrection.
                                    i. Christian Ethiopic Malak (233) is the Ethiopic word for angel.

                                    Starjade says; Muhammad believed the earth was flat and the sun set in a pool of muddy water. The question is do you Muslims believe Muhammad was right.

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                                      unknownuser
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #21

                                      Starjade Quote
                                      I am invoking this Islamic law to open up serious religious discussions and Revelations with Muslims.

                                      Al-Quraishi you said; If you are invoking Islamic law, then if someone proves you wrong does that mean you will abide by it's judgements?

                                      Starjade says; To err is human. We can all make mistakes. However, If someone proves that the errors I have listed are not errors that exist in the Koran then of course I shall accept it. That law governs that conversation by agreement from both sides. What is true is true and what is false is false. A female Muslim called Hafsa managed to dispute two of the hundreds of errors that exist in the Koran and I saw that was so and I withdrew them. Should you visit the End of Times web site you can find those conversations in the why Islam bites the Dust thread. You can then see that will be so for yourself.

                                      Starjade Quote
                                      The facts are that if just one error exists in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran does not come from God.

                                      Al-Quraishi you said; Well according to what you've just said, the facts don't state that.

                                      Starjade says; point is taken. I oft forget the original challenge from the followers of islam when they goaded me was to find just one error in the Koran. However, after reading the Sura 482 of the Koran it states much discrepancy. So then, I went with that and showed much discrepancy in the Koran. Do you dispute that discrepancies are errors. I have shown hundreds of error found in the Koran and the beliefs of Muhammad and islam as a whole. I also named 11 Chapters of the Koran that glorify jesus as being the Prophet that jesus has proclaimed himself to being as also being many errors in the Koran. Too many for Muslims to account for. Especially considering the silly claims of Muhammad and Muhammads personal belief in Jesus.

                                      Starjade Quote
                                      Sura 482 of the Koran says; do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein.

                                      Al-Quraishi you said; Please take the time to read what you're posting in order that you may stop contradicting yourself, the verse says that if it isn't from God then surely they would find much discrepancy therein, you will need to elaborate on your claim of

                                      Starjade says; I got your point the first time and also pointed that out to the Muslims who goaded me to challenge islam. I then staggered them with errors found in the Koran and they who challenged me shirked the Sura 482 challenge. Over 1000 Muslims found they could not defend the Koran or the claims of Muhammad and Islam bit the Dust. The word Allah means Supreme God and though Muslims give worship to Hubal alilah that is simply the moon god of the Arabs. It is not the Supreme God. The supreme God is the Living God of Moses and of Starjade. That is by the way the Living White Sphere that lives beyond the Veil of the Abyss in deep space.

                                      So upon that understanding I am not trying to prove that the Koran came from the pagan moon god Hubal alilah as that would be just too silly, but what I am proving is that the Koran does not come from the living God of Abraham and of Moses and of the much loved Deuteronomy Prophet Starjade. Do you understand what I have said. ?

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                                        unknownuser
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #22

                                        Starjade Quote
                                        The facts are that if just one error exists in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran does not come from God.

                                        Al-Quraishi you said; Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I disagree with you, you just need to backup your claims, that's all.

                                        Starjade says; even though I shall and have staggered you Muslims with many errors that exist in the Koran it is still a fact that if one error exists in the Koran that is not true then that is still proof that the Koran does not come from the Living God. The Living God does not make mistakes. Do not forget also that the silly claim of Muhammad is that the words of the Koran came from the (cough) Angel Gabriel. Do you admit that this Angel Gabriel has made some mistake?

                                        Starjade Quote
                                        Of course it is known by history and many religious scholars that the god that Muhammad gave his worship to was in fact Hubal al'ilah, a pagan moon god worshipped throughout the middle east and Hubal alilah goes by many names one of them being that of Sin. The origin of to worship in Sin.

                                        Al-Quraishi you said; Please back this up with facts.

                                        Starjade says; I already have on Conspiracy Central. And I was being brief as it is a lot of data. Do not forget this Sura 482 challenge here is an invitation to all Muslims to to go to that open Sura 482 challenge discussion. The Muslims there are shirkers and powerless against me. I have that effect on people.

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                                          The Archeology of The Middle East

                                          Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-god. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites."

                                          In ancient Syria and Canna, the Moon-god Sin was usually represented by the moon in its crescent phase. At times the full moon was placed inside the crescent moon to emphasize all the phases of the moon. The sun-goddess was the wife of Sin and the stars were their daughters. For example, Istar was a daughter of Sin. Sacrifices to the Moon-god are described in the Pas Shamra texts. In the Ugaritic texts, the Moon-god was sometimes called Kusuh. In Persia, as well as in Egypt, the Moon-god is depicted on wall murals and on the heads of statues. He was the Judge of men and gods. The Old Testament constantly rebuked the worship of the Moon-god (see Deut. 419;173; II Kngs. 213,5; 235; Jer. 82; 1913; Zeph. 15, etc.)

                                          When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually the cult of the Moon-god. As a matter of fact, everywhere in the ancient world, the symbol of the crescent moon can be found on seal impressions, steles, pottery, amulets, clay tablets, cylinders, weights, earrings, necklaces, wall murals, etc. In Tell-el-Obeid, a copper calf was found with a crescent moon on its forehead. An idol with the body of a bull and the head of man has a crescent moon inlaid on its forehead with shells. In Ur, the Stela of Ur-Nammu has the crescent symbol placed at the top of the register of gods because the Moon-god was the head of the gods. Even bread was baked in the form of a crescent as an act of devotion to the Moon-god. The Ur of the Chaldees was so devoted to the Moon-god that it was sometimes called Nannar in tablets from that time period.

                                          A temple of the Moon-god has been excavated in Ur by Sir Leonard Woolley. He dug up many examples of moon worship in Ur and these are displayed in the British Museum to this day. Harran was likewise noted for its devotion to the Moon-god. In the 1950's a major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazer in Palestine. Two idols of the moon god were found. Each was a stature of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved on his chest . The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the Moon-god. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the "daughters" of the Moon-god. What about Arabia? As pointed out by Prof. Coon, "Muslims are notoriously loath to preserve traditions of earlier paganism and like to garble what pre-Islamic history they permit to survive in anachronistic terms."

                                          During the nineteenth century, Amaud, Halevy and Glaser went to Southern Arabia and dug up thousands of Sabean, Minaean, and Qatabanian inscriptions which were subsequently translated. In the 1940's, the archeologists G. Caton Thompson and Carleton S. Coon made some amazing discoveries in Arabia. During the 1950's, Wendell Phillips, W.F. Albright, Richard Bower and others excavated sites at Qataban, Timna, and Marib (the ancient capital of Sheba). Thousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in Northern Arabia have also been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Allah the Moon-god represented by a crescent moon above them. The archeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion of Arabia was the cult of the Moon-god.

                                          In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last king of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia as a center of Moon-god worship. Segall stated, "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations." Many scholars have also noticed that the Moon-god's name "Sin" is a part of such Arabic words as "Sinai," the "wilderness of Sin," etc. When the popularity of the Moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the Moon-god was the greatest of all gods. While they worshipped 360 gods at the Kabah in Mecca, the Moon-god was the chief deity. Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the Moon-god.
                                          This is what made it the most sacred site of Arabian paganism. In 1944, G. Caton Thompson revealed in her book, The Tombs and Moon Temple of Hureidha, that she had uncovered a temple of the Moon-god in southern Arabia. The symbols of the crescent moon and no less than twenty-one inscriptions with the name Sin were found in this temple. An idol which may be the Moon-god himself was also discovered. This was later confirmed by other well-known archeologists.

                                          The evidence reveals that the temple of the Moon-god was active even in the Christian era. Evidence gathered from both North and South Arabia demonstrate that Moon-god worship was clearly active even in Muhammad's day and was still the dominant cult. According to numerous inscriptions, while the name of the Moon-god was Sin, his title was al-ilah, i.e. "the deity," meaning that he was the chief or high god among the gods. As Coon pointed out, "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al-ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.

                                          The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being."

                                          This fact answers the questions, "Why is Allah never defined in the Qur'an? Why did Muhammad assume that the pagan Arabs already knew who Allah was?" Muhammad was raised in the religion of the Moon-god Allah. But he went one step further than his fellow pagan Arabs. While they believed that Allah, i.e. the Moon-god, was the greatest of all gods and the supreme deity in a pantheon of deities, Muhammad decided that Allah was not only the greatest god but the only god.

                                          In effect he said, "Look, you already believe that the Moon-god Allah is the greatest of all gods. All I want you to do is to accept that the idea that he is the only god. I am not taking away the Allah you already worship. I am only taking away his wife and his daughters and all the other gods." This is seen from the fact that the first point of the Muslim creed is not, "Allah is great" but "Allah is the greatest," i.e., he is the greatest among the gods. Why would Muhammad say that Allah is the "greatest" except in a polytheistic context? The Arabic word is used to contrast the greater from the lesser. That this is true is seen from the fact that the pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. This "Allah" was the Moon-god according to the archeological evidence. Muhammad thus attempted to have it both ways. To the pagans, he said that he still believed in the Moon-god Allah. To the Jews and the Christians, he said that Allah was their God too. But both the Jews and the Christians knew better and that is why they rejected his god Allah as a false god.

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