Meteors chase things?
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The "fishing" is to test if it is plausible. And it is.
It is? Have you been reading any of my responses?
There is a rational explanation for everything, and this is the assumption I am testing the Quran on when "fishing".
OK, whatever.
In 3680, does it mean fire literally blew out from the green tree or does it mean the components of fire (oxygen, carbon and friction) originated from the specifically GREEN tree? What gives a tree or any plant its green colour, and what is its relationship with fire?
Chloroform? Or maybe even it's pigment? Why don't you just say it? I'm not responding to a time wasting little game. Why do you do this? you're not being clever in the least, so stop trying so hard and just say it in plain, simple terms.If "jinn" are deterministic machines like us,
Now us and the jinn are deterministic machines? My God, you are all over the map. I'm losing patience with the conversation.
then by disrupting their chemical balance or structure. In the same way that prolonged contact with potassium will hurt, by reacting with our skin, or gas by burning, or by a 2 ton block by crushing, such can plasma interact. If "jinn" are pursued actively or passively by objects in the lower samawat, then that could be rationally explained by them becoming charged in some way, or having a net change in some kind of energy content that interacts with the plasma. I said electric charge because of the nature of plasma as ionised gas, and the nature of jinn as smokeless fire, living in relation to water (though whether the Quran states "jinn" are alive, I have to recheck). The Quran should be used to show the described nature of "jinn", and not any external source, if we are to challenge the Quran. So far, verses in the Quran show "jinn" are alive entities who are hidden away.
This conversation is simply going into outer space. Go right a science fiction novel. By the way, as far as the Jinn being alive, go read sura 72 Al-Jinn, okay? What's you're point?
Now, on the nature, "iblees" in 3873-76 is shown to not be a "malaika", because all the "malaika" did their "sujood" towards "adam", but there is a comparison - in the words of this "iblees", humans are created from clay (see clayparticles theory) and he was created from fire, and iblees was of the jinn (1850). If these have the same nature, then it can be said that "jinn" are living beings, consisting of water in some form, in the same way as humans - we may originate from clay, but we are not made from clay.
So what? What's your point?
Another thing, when you consider that all living beings are made of water (2445), another plausible explanation has to do with radio waves attacking the "jinn", or some form of EM radiation (See John Kanzius, for instance).
Are radio waves bright for us to see as per 1518? What are you on?
There is a rational explanation for everything the Quran gave so far to my understanding in regards to "jinn".
Just says every living creature.
Quite complex.
OMG WTF
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Check out a mirror sometime
I'm not inventing anything. I'm going with the most obvious, simplest interpretation. And my interpretation works across the board for all verses. There's only one problem with my interpretation, and that is that it puts the Quran at odds with science. But science should be totally irrelevant when interpreting the Quran. One should not "fudge" the Quran to make it work with science. That is inaccurate, and some might even go as far as calling it dishonest.
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I'm not inventing anything. I'm going with the most obvious, simplest interpretation. And my interpretation works across the board for all verses. There's only one problem with my interpretation, and that is that it puts the Quran at odds with science. But science should be totally irrelevant when interpreting the Quran. One should not "fudge" the Quran to make it work with science. That is inaccurate, and some might even go as far as calling it dishonest.
But who told you that science is 100 % correct
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But who told you that science is 100 % correct
You've missed the point if you asked a question like that. The point is that Muslims fudge and reinterpret the Quran to make it fit science. It has absolutely nothing to do with wheter science is correct or not.
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No, they do not go to the sky. They try to get to the sky but the presence of meteorites prevents them.
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Your point?
The meaning of the verse is that jinn try to get to the sky to snatch a hearing, but the presence of meteorites prevents them from hearing too much.
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The meaning of the verse is that jinn try to get to the sky to snatch a hearing, but the presence of meteorites prevents them from hearing too much.
Actually, here are the verses
1516 It is We Who have set out the zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair-seeming to (all) beholders;
1517 And (moreover) We have guarded them from every cursed devil
1518 But any that gains a hearing by stealth, is pursued by a flaming fire, bright (to see).
So here, it would seem that the heavens are guarded, but that occasionally, through stealth, one or a few might snatch a hearing, at which point a flame chases them if they do. So what you said isn't entirely accurate.
376 We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-
377 (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
So far, it seems like the stars guard
37 8 (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,
379 Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty
3710 Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
There it is. 3710 says the same thing as 1518. Only the ones who gain a hearing by steal are pursued by a bright flame
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The word
is wrongly translated as to follow. It means to "guard it of".
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Is that word in either 1518 or 3710? Are you trying to be irrelevant on purpose?
It's the same word in both verses.
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So what? The point is that only the jinn who snatch a hearing by stealth are pursued. Are you purposefully trying to confuse the subject?
No, they are payed attention to/taken care of.
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OK, whatever.
So, it's settled.
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It is? Have you been reading any of my responses?
OK, whatever.
Chloroform? Or maybe even it's pigment? Why don't you just say it? I'm not responding to a time wasting little game. Why do you do this? you're not being clever in the least, so stop trying so hard and just say it in plain, simple terms.Now us and the jinn are deterministic machines? My God, you are all over the map. I'm losing patience with the conversation.
This conversation is simply going into outer space. Go right a science fiction novel. By the way, as far as the Jinn being alive, go read sura 72 Al-Jinn, okay? What's you're point?
So what? What's your point?
Are radio waves bright for us to see as per 1518? What are you on?
OMG WTF
What are your responses? All I see is a barrage of questions that have been answered. Point them out, it would be easier.
Chloroform? Or maybe even it's pigment? Why don't you just say it? I'm not responding to a time wasting little game. Why do you do this? you're not being clever in the least, so stop trying so hard and just say it in plain, simple terms.
Anything to avoid thinking, and hence, having to compare a Quranic statement to reality, instead of your own preconception, eh? There is no "being clever" or "trying hard", I'm asking you a simple question.
Now us and the jinn are deterministic machines? My God, you are all over the map. I'm losing patience with the conversation.
I said "IF". Also, you addressed the wrong part of the paragraph. That was pure nitpicking.
This conversation is simply going into outer space. Go right a science fiction novel. By the way, as far as the Jinn being alive, go read sura 72 Al-Jinn, okay? What's you're point?
The point is to show that it is physically possible that only a "jinn" that "steals a hearing" will be chased, and nothing more. As for the jinn being alive, surah al-jinn has nothing that I can see that points to it. Personification is a common theme in the Quran, for instance, the universe is said to perform sujood to Allah, willingly and unwillingly, and God "speaks" to inanimate objects, and so on. The Quran indirectly and directly states humans are alive (as in actively, not passively - 2554, 228, 2266, 3926), maybe I'm being oblivious, but I haven't seen one which links it to jinn as well. One possible reference is 6130 but that could also be otherwise.
So what? What's your point?
To demonstrate that it is physically possible.
Are radio waves bright for us to see as per 1518? What are you on?
After a bit of doppler shifting, yes ;D
But I threw that out there randomly.
OMG WTF
Let's rephrase the last sentence; My understanding is that there is a rational explanation for the Quran's description of jinn. Simple as that.
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What are your responses? All I see is a barrage of questions that have been answered. Point them out, it would be easier.
I said, OMG WTF because you were all over the cosmic map and no longer making sense. Oh jeez, I think I'm getting ill.
Anything to avoid thinking, and hence, having to compare a Quranic statement to reality, instead of your own preconception, eh? There is no "being clever" or "trying hard", I'm asking you a simple question.
Look, I have to admit, that in my past experience with people that speak like you, they usually turn out to be bright teenagers. Which is OK, I suppose. But there is always this non realistic sense where if they can invent it or if it's possible, then it's legitimate. It's only experience that prevents people from inventing implausible things. Younger people do it all of the time, and if there is 5% chance that it can be, then it's legit. Older people become a little more conservative with time.
The point is to show that it is physically possible that only a "jinn" that "steals a hearing" will be chased, and nothing more.
But wait a second, it actually says that all Jinn are repelled (by whatever means you wish, doesn't matter), but that occasionally, one might snatch a hearing by stealth, and if THAT particular one does, then a clear flame pursues. So this contradicts your chemical attraction theory. So do I need to read the rest of your post or is science fiction class over?
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I said, OMG WTF because you were all over the cosmic map and no longer making sense. Oh jeez, I think I'm getting ill.
Look, I have to admit, that in my past experience with people that speak like you, they usually turn out to be bright teenagers. Which is OK, I suppose. But there is always this non realistic sense where if they can invent it or if it's possible, then it's legitimate. It's only experience that prevents people from inventing implausible things. Younger people do it all of the time, and if there is 5% chance that it can be, then it's legit. Older people become a little more conservative with time.
But wait a second, it actually says that all Jinn are repelled (by whatever means you wish, doesn't matter), but that occasionally, one might snatch a hearing by stealth, and if THAT particular one does, then a clear flame pursues. So this contradicts your chemical attraction theory. So do I need to read the rest of your post or is science fiction class over?
You are already ill
Look, I have to admit, that in my past experience with people that speak like you, they usually turn out to be bright teenagers. Which is OK, I suppose. But there is always this non realistic sense where if they can invent it or if it's possible, then it's legitimate. It's only experience that prevents people from inventing implausible things. Younger people do it all of the time, and if there is 5% chance that it can be, then it's legit. Older people become a little more conservative with time.
I never said "if it can be invented, it's legitimate", I said "if it's rationally explainable, then it's possible". It gets no simpler than that. You may wish to recheck the "implausible things" part of your post, still waiting for that definition/concept of "jinn"
But wait a second, it actually says that all Jinn are repelled (by whatever means you wish, doesn't matter), but that occasionally, one might snatch a hearing by stealth, and if THAT particular one does, then a clear flame pursues. So this contradicts your chemical attraction theory. So do I need to read the rest of your post or is science fiction class over?
No it does not. It says that it is guarded against them, not "repelled". Then, if one of them stealthily snatches a hearing it is followed. So it doesn't contradict my theory, and if it does, then my theory is wrong
Which brings us back to
Let's rephrase the last sentence; My understanding is that there is a rational explanation for the Quran's description of jinn. Simple as that.