an adulterer can only marry adulteress or an idolatress
-
Peace explorer,
I believe it's A...when you had premarital sex you became an adulterer (and an idolater because you gave into desire) and it's wrong to marry a believer for that reason. For the same reason such a strict punishment is in 242 & 4
Of course if/when you reform you can be 'muslim' again
-
Peace,
To me, choosing it to mean "marry" only would create a big contradiction with God's laws depending on how we approach it, for example, in reality, it cannot be foretelling as I know many couples where one was an adulterer and the other not. And people cannot be forced into marriage. They can only be punished for the crime (100 stripes) and then it is done. The verse can be understood as marriage if it means the couple must marry because of maybe children that came forth out of the adultery.
But this can only be done if
- If the adulterer's were not married already.
- Or the partner decides to divorce their adulteress partner.
Thus to mean it as marriage would create many questions as it can only be applicable in some circumstances. If the partner decides that his or her adulteress partner is forgiven, and remains married to here, then the above verse becomes void. But if we take Nikaah as meaning "sex", then it becomes very logical, as it refers that two people decided to commit adultery, referring to both persons responsibility.
And D'Argento, there are more dictionaries then just Lane's.
Muhammed Asad makes the same comment on this verse where he points out the contradictions the "marriage" understanding would create
the adulterer couples with none other than an adulteress - that is, a woman who accords a place side by side with God;
and with the adulteress couples none other than an adulterer - that is, a man who accords a place side by side with God and this is forbidden unto the believers.
-
Peace explorer,
I believe it's A...when you had premarital sex you became an adulterer (and an idolater because you gave into desire) and it's wrong to marry a believer for that reason. For the same reason such a strict punishment is in 242 & 4
Of course if/when you reform you can be 'muslim' again
Peace
I have seen people here when caught by police they marry each other to avoid punishment.
So here an adulator is marrying an adulator.
peace
-
The words made from the Root " " have occurred 23 times in the Grand Quran. Nowhere it is used for "sex".
In 2460 it is. Asad AND (know that) women advanced in years, who no longer feel any sexual desire, incur no sin if they discard their garments, provided they do not aim at a showy display of their charms. But (even so), it is better for them to abstain. And God is all-hearing, all-knowing.
feel no sexual desire la yarjuuna nikahan
However I cannot agree with Asad's claim that AW means in other words. What God is saying in 243 is that adultery is as deplorable as idol-worship. True believers should refrain from both.
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
In 2460 it is. Asad AND (know that) women advanced in years, who no longer feel any sexual desire, incur no sin if they discard their garments, provided they do not aim at a showy display of their charms. But (even so), it is better for them to abstain. And God is all-hearing, all-knowing.
feel no sexual desire la yarjuuna nikahan
024.060
YUSUFALI Such elderly women as are past the prospect of marriage,- there is no blame on them if they lay aside their (outer) garments, provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty but it is best for them to be modest and Allah is One Who sees and knows all things.
PICKTHAL As for women past child-bearing, who have no hope of marriage, it is no sin for them if they discard their (outer) clothing in such a way as not to show adornment. But to refrain is better for them. Allah is Hearer, Knower.
SHAKIR And (as for) women advanced in years who do not hope for a marriage, it is no sin for them if they put off their clothes without displaying their ornaments; and if they restrain themselves it is better for them; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
Mohammad Sarward Elderly women who have no hope of getting married are allowed not to wear the kind of clothing that young woman must wear, as long as they do not show off their beauty. It is better for them if they maintain chastity. God is All-hearing and All-knowing.
Progressive Muslims And the women who are past child bearing and who do not seek to get married have no sin upon them if they put-off their garments, provided they are not adorned for beauty. And if they remain as they were, then it is better for them. God is Hearer, Knower.
T.B. Irving Those women sitting around who no longer expect to marry will meet with no objection if they take off their clothing, though without displaying their charms. Yet it is best for them to act modestly. God is Alert, Aware."who no longer feel any sexual desire" is absolutely incorrect translation. Whoseover translated it seems to have ignored word "yarjuuna".
-
Please allow me to disagree, Mazhar, but I am convinced that the translations you provide are definitely wrong. My conviction comes from the fact that no women, no matter how terribly old they are, stop hoping to marry or are past the prospect of marriage until the very last breath they are able to take. Hope is a human right that God has given to the women mentioned; and they have God's permission to marry without even the slightest prospect to have sexual intercourse with their spouses (423, 2236-237, 3349). So the translators had better aknowledge it.
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
Salam.
Most of us here agree that Zina is not adultery , but public sex. When someone has been a proved zani , and has been labeled as such , then God is decreeing , "That NO believer should marry such a personality", And if no believer is ready to marry Zanis , then probably the only choice she/he (zanis) has, "is to marry some one who is not a believer of such rules/decrees/commandment".
God is trying to stress upon the the severity of the crime Zina , if some one is proved as such, he/she is considered at par with an idol worshipper, and an other indirect decree probably is ,"That Believers are prohibited to marry idolworshippers".
siki
-
Salam.
Most of us here agree that Zina is not adultery , but public sex. When someone has been a proved zani , and has been labeled as such , then God is decreeing , "That NO believer should marry such a personality", And if no believer is ready to marry Zanis , then probably the only choice she/he (zanis) has, "is to marry some one who is not a believer of such rules/decrees/commandment".
God is trying to stress upon the the severity of the crime Zina , if some one is proved as such, he/she is considered at par with an idol worshipper, and an other indirect decree probably is ,"That Believers are prohibited to marry idolworshippers".
siki
Yes, this is also my understanding that this is a command, not a statement. Since "zina" is a public act, everyone knows, or can know the "zani/a" and so they should not marry them. The mention of "aw mushrikan/mushrika" brings up verse 2221 to our memory.
The verse also brings further proof that "zina" is a public act, otherwise it will be useless whether considered as a command or a statement.
-
Please allow me to disagree, Mazhar, but I am convinced that the translations you provide are definitely wrong. My conviction comes from the fact that no women, no matter how terribly old they are, stop hoping to marry or are past the prospect of marriage until the very last breath they are able to take. Hope is a human right that God has given to the women mentioned; and they have God's permission to marry without even the slightest prospect to have sexual intercourse with their spouses (423, 2236-237, 3349). So the translators had better aknowledge it.{Brook}
I pasted five or six translations of various writers, giving their names. You have not given the name of the person who translated it. If it is your translation then please say that all other translators are wrong because of the above perception that you have about women. It is a tragedy that people pass verdicts about woman while the fact is that majority of men know very little about the actualities of women.
Please pay a little attention to "La yarjuuna" as requested earlier.
-
Please allow me to disagree, Mazhar, but I am convinced that the translations you provide are definitely wrong. My conviction comes from the fact that no women, no matter how terribly old they are, stop hoping to marry or are past the prospect of marriage until the very last breath they are able to take. Hope is a human right that God has given to the women mentioned; and they have God's permission to marry without even the slightest prospect to have sexual intercourse with their spouses (423, 2236-237, 3349). So the translators had better aknowledge it.
Peace,
Hasan Akcaypeace Hasan
Above is your perception, and to authenticate your perception, you are assinging a completely new meaning to the Arabic word Nikah, which can neither be confirmed from dictionaries nor the Great Reading it self.
siki
-
Please pay a little attention to "La yarjuuna" as requested earlier. (Mazhar)
I did pay attention, dear Mazhar. All the six people whom you quote translate la yarjuuna corectly. There is nothing wrong with that.
My objection is to the translation of nikahan as the prospect of marriage. Please note that according to the six tarnslators you quote,
kawaid are the women who
are past the prospect of marriage (Yusuf Ali)
have no hope of marriage (Picthal, Mohammad Sarward)
do not hope for a marriage (Shakir)
do not seek to get married (Progressive Muslims)
no longer expect to marry (T.B. Irving)So according to their rendering of nikah, God allows the kawaid to take off their clothes if they do not have hope to get married. But if they do? If they have hope of getting married, they are not allowed to take off their clothes.
However, hope is a never-ending human right. I repeat ALL HUMANS, including the kawaid, have the right to marry to the very last breath they are able to take, and it is God who gives them this right (2236-237, 423, 3349).
Therefore what these six translators in actuality are saying is that the kawaid are never allowed to take off their clothes although God says they are.
God says they are; the translators say they are not. That is what is wrong. No translator, no matter what great name he is, can abolish the kawaid?s God-given right to take off their clothes.
The correct translation of nikahan in 2460 has to be the prospect or rather ability to have sexual intercourse. People do lose it at a certain old age, say at 90. But they still can marry for reasons other than sex.
For example they can marry in order to feel a warm hand of a spouse to hold their hand, and God gives them this permission by announcing in 2236-237, 423, 3349 that marriage for purposes other than sex is halal.
you are assinging a completely new meaning to the Arabic word Nikah, which can neither be confirmed from dictionaries nor the Great Reading it self. (the truth seeker)
The Great Reading does. I referred to the relevant verses above. What is more, I am drawing on Muhammad Asad?s explanation in his footnote about 2460
Although nikah, as well as the verb from which it is derived, is almost always used in the Qur?an in the sense of "marriage", there are undoubtedly exceptions from this general rule for instance, the manner in which the verbal form yankihu is used in verse 3 of this surah. These exceptions cofirm the view held by some philologists of great renown, e.g., Al-Jawhari or Al-Azhari (the latter quoted in Lisan al-?Arab), to the effect that "in the speech of the Arabs, the original meaning of nikah is sexual intercourse (al-wat).
Peace,
Hasan Akcay -
(expect to have intercourse)
feel sexual desire -yarjuuna nikahen (2460)
expect God?s grace -yarc?na rahmatallah (221
expecting from God -tarjuuna minallah
what they cannot expect -ma la yarjuun (4104)
expect to meet Us ?yarjuuna lik?ena (107)expect to receive the Book ?tarjuu an yulkaa ilayka?l kitab (2886)
thy Sustainer?s grace thou expect -rahmatin min rabbike tarjuuh? (172We had hope in thee ?kunta feen? marcukan (1162)
hoping God?s command -murcavna li emrillah (9106)
expect the last day -yarcu?l yavma?l ahir (2936)
whoever expects to meet God -men k?na yarc? lik?allah (295, 18110) -
feel no sexual desire la yarjuuna nikahan
have no hope of
do not hope for
do not seek to
no longer expect toBut who? A particular woman feel no sexual desire or men do not have sexual desire in that woman, who do not hope/seek/longer expect to, men in that woman or that woman in men?? And also please correct the translations that no woman is being allowed to put off her dress. She is being allowed to put off the spare sheet put on the bosoms not her dress.
-
Salam.
Most of us here agree that Zina is not adultery , but public sex. When someone has been a proved zani , and has been labeled as such , then God is decreeing , "That NO believer should marry such a personality", And if no believer is ready to marry Zanis , then probably the only choice she/he (zanis) has, "is to marry some one who is not a believer of such rules/decrees/commandment".
God is trying to stress upon the the severity of the crime Zina , if some one is proved as such, he/she is considered at par with an idol worshipper, and an other indirect decree probably is ,"That Believers are prohibited to marry idolworshippers".
siki
public act, like on the streets on daylight or night? Like nudists or something?