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  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. Focal Point

Focal Point

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • I Offline
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    ignoramus
    wrote on last edited by
    #146

    salam brothers and sisters

    it would be interesting to know interpretations of 2191 from a non-physical al Masjid al Haram standpoint.

    thank you.

    salam

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      unknownuser
      wrote on last edited by
      #147

      salam

      what is more pertinent than where.

      you will see al Masjid al Haram when you pass along it.

      salam

      That wasn't an answer, all it did was shift the burden of proof.

      So, where is the Straight Path? Is it the line in yellow in the picture?

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        ignoramus
        wrote on last edited by
        #148

        That wasn't an answer, all it did was shift the burden of proof.

        So, where is the Straight Path? Is it the line in yellow in the picture?

        salam

        i am sorry but i do not understand exactly what you are asking.

        do you really think siratal mustaqim is a physical thing?

        salam

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          AlFajr
          wrote on last edited by
          #149

          Peace All,

          I would like to put forward some evidence that indicate that Jerusalem may be the pilgrimadge destination.

          From http//archnet.org/library/sites/one-site.jsp?site_id=41

          • http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=5204

          • http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=8966

          • http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=5196

          • http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=3599

          • http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=3608

          • http//archnet.org/library/documents/one-document.jsp?document_id=3609

          Others
          http//www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/shift.html

          Salaam

          Al

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            SwedenMajidah
            wrote on last edited by
            #150

            Peace,

            I doubt that there are some special ancient place to go to pilgrim to.

            Why and what for?

            I rather think that hajj=debate will take place during the sacred months every year within an islamic community.

            So we have to create this islamic community before we can have any debates then I suppose .

            Peace
            Maria

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              ignoramus
              wrote on last edited by
              #151

              Peace,

              I doubt that there are some special ancient place to go to pilgrim to.

              Why and what for?

              I rather think that hajj=debate will take place during the sacred months every year within an islamic community.

              So we have to create this islamic community before we can have any debates then I suppose .

              Peace
              Maria

              salam sister

              i think there are a numer of other threads regarding Hajj; i would hope we can focus of the focal point in this one, otherwise the thread could lose momentum and become confusing

              salam

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                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #152

                salam

                i am sorry but i do not understand exactly what you are asking.

                do you really think siratal mustaqim is a physical thing?

                salam

                Why not? "Kaaba" is, maqam ibrahim is, "masjid al-haram" is, "masjid al aqsa" is. So, you must take the straight path to get the the sacred mosque. Not a curved path.

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                  ignoramus
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #153

                  Why not? "Kaaba" is, maqam ibrahim is, "masjid al-haram" is, "masjid al aqsa" is. So, you must take the straight path to get the the sacred mosque. Not a curved path.

                  salam

                  no reason why you should not think that way, i was only surprised because you are the first person i know to suggest it, and i disagree.

                  salam

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                    Jack
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #154

                    peace,

                    this one was such an awesome discussion at one point, another verse to take into account

                    396

                    Khalifa
                    The most important shrine established for the people is the one in Becca; a blessed beacon for all the people.
                    Yusuf Ali
                    The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings
                    "Progressive Muslims"
                    The first Shrine established for the people is the one in Bakk'a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.

                    http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat3_files/3_96.gif

                    Sorry ignoramus if i am steering this towards a wrong direction peace

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                      warner
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #155

                      Salaam

                      Why does Qibla have to mean focal point ,convening point or direction of prayer ? None of these meanings have any support from the Quran.

                      It certainly means something else , we have not been searching hard enough.

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                        Jack
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #156

                        Peace,

                        Why does Qibla have to mean focal point ,convening point or direction of prayer ? None of these meanings have any support from the Quran.

                        It doesn't have to, but let's cross-reference it, shall we?

                        qiblah n.f. 2142, 2143, 2144, 2145, 2145, 2145, 1087

                        http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

                        LL, V8, p 237, 238

                        EDIT

                        It's definitely a direction and 1087 is very intriguing and should be looked into more as well. And it definitely seems like a physical direction.

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                          warner
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #157

                          Peace,

                          It doesn't have to, but let's cross-reference it, shall we?

                          qiblah n.f. 2142, 2143, 2144, 2145, 2145, 2145, 1087

                          http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

                          LL, V8, p 237, 238

                          EDIT

                          It's definitely a direction and 1087 is very intriguing and should be looked into more as well. And it definitely seems like a physical direction.

                          Peace

                          1087 is a verse with various interpretations. 1087 can mean "in front" , "Before" or "opposite side" with almost the same meaning. There are more than 300 uses of this root in the Quran.

                          When you cross refer do not limit yourself with a traditional translation.

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                            ignoramus
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #158

                            Peace

                            1087 is a verse with various interpretations. 1087 can mean "in front" , "Before" or "opposite side" with almost the same meaning. There are more than 300 uses of this root in the Quran.

                            When you cross refer do not limit yourself with a traditional translation.

                            salam

                            can you suggest a better interpretation of 1087?

                            salam

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                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #159

                              salam

                              no reason why you should not think that way, i was only surprised because you are the first person i know to suggest it, and i disagree.

                              salam

                              Please explain why you disagree.
                              We have a physical cube, a physical institute, a physical station of Abraham, but somehow, a physically Straight Path (which is just a few metres away and leads straight into the mosque) is silly?

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                                SwedenMajidah
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #160

                                Peace OPF,

                                LOL, well you can bring this up with sunnis, if they not agree with it then the whole theory from them are indeed wrong.

                                Maria

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                                  ignoramus
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #161

                                  Please explain why you disagree.
                                  We have a physical cube, a physical institute, a physical station of Abraham, but somehow, a physically Straight Path (which is just a few metres away and leads straight into the mosque) is silly?

                                  salam

                                  perhaps in another thread, let us deal with the topic in hand in this one!

                                  salam

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                                    warner
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #162

                                    salam ignoramus

                                    The verse 1087 is addressed to both Moses and Aaron. It may be that the verse is instructing them to establish houses for their people ?within Egypt/ bi misra? (since the command to take the Children of Israel and leave Egypt has not come as yet) and to make houses for Moses and Aaron in front /before/on the opposite meaning outside Egypt/out side the jurisdiction of Pharaoh. Please note the difference in the use of ?establish houses? for the people and ?make houses? for Moses and Aaron.

                                    Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.

                                    This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.

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                                    • I Offline
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                                      ignoramus
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #163

                                      salam ignoramus

                                      The verse 1087 is addressed to both Moses and Aaron. It may be that the verse is instructing them to establish houses for their people ?within Egypt/ bi misra? (since the command to take the Children of Israel and leave Egypt has not come as yet) and to make houses for Moses and Aaron in front /before/on the opposite meaning outside Egypt/out side the jurisdiction of Pharaoh. Please note the difference in the use of ?establish houses? for the people and ?make houses? for Moses and Aaron.

                                      Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.

                                      This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.

                                      salam

                                      your translation does not quite make sense to me, could you please give a complete translation of the verse. also, there seems to be mention of blessings towards the end.

                                      thank you.

                                      salam

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                                        Allen
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #164

                                        salam ignoramus

                                        Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.

                                        This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.

                                        Qibla = focal point
                                        can be proved from following logic.
                                        A person ,who was learning English was repeating the word "Hen" loudly like this .
                                        "Hen means black ,hen means black ,hen means black."
                                        Someone listened and said to him "hen does not mean "black" rather it means a domestic bird which lays eggs.You know what did that person replied?? "I see.Don't you know that hen is sometimes black ? Yes ,then ? If hen is black ,then hen means black.

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                                          Samia
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #165

                                          Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.

                                          Salaam warner, all

                                          The difference between "qiblatan" and "qubaalata" is not just the diatrical signs, but also the spelling. Where I put a double "a" is suppsed to be an alif that does not exist in "qiblatan"
                                          qiblatan
                                          qibaalata

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