Focal Point
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Peace,
I doubt that there are some special ancient place to go to pilgrim to.
Why and what for?
I rather think that hajj=debate will take place during the sacred months every year within an islamic community.
So we have to create this islamic community before we can have any debates then I suppose .
Peace
Maria -
Peace,
I doubt that there are some special ancient place to go to pilgrim to.
Why and what for?
I rather think that hajj=debate will take place during the sacred months every year within an islamic community.
So we have to create this islamic community before we can have any debates then I suppose .
Peace
Mariasalam sister
i think there are a numer of other threads regarding Hajj; i would hope we can focus of the focal point in this one, otherwise the thread could lose momentum and become confusing
salam
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salam
i am sorry but i do not understand exactly what you are asking.
do you really think siratal mustaqim is a physical thing?
salam
Why not? "Kaaba" is, maqam ibrahim is, "masjid al-haram" is, "masjid al aqsa" is. So, you must take the straight path to get the the sacred mosque. Not a curved path.
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Why not? "Kaaba" is, maqam ibrahim is, "masjid al-haram" is, "masjid al aqsa" is. So, you must take the straight path to get the the sacred mosque. Not a curved path.
salam
no reason why you should not think that way, i was only surprised because you are the first person i know to suggest it, and i disagree.
salam
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peace,
this one was such an awesome discussion at one point, another verse to take into account
396
Khalifa
The most important shrine established for the people is the one in Becca; a blessed beacon for all the people.
Yusuf Ali
The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings
"Progressive Muslims"
The first Shrine established for the people is the one in Bakk'a, blessed, and a guidance for the worlds.http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat3_files/3_96.gif
Sorry ignoramus if i am steering this towards a wrong direction peace
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Peace,
Why does Qibla have to mean focal point ,convening point or direction of prayer ? None of these meanings have any support from the Quran.
It doesn't have to, but let's cross-reference it, shall we?
qiblah n.f. 2142, 2143, 2144, 2145, 2145, 2145, 1087
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
LL, V8, p 237, 238
EDIT
It's definitely a direction and 1087 is very intriguing and should be looked into more as well. And it definitely seems like a physical direction.
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Peace,
It doesn't have to, but let's cross-reference it, shall we?
qiblah n.f. 2142, 2143, 2144, 2145, 2145, 2145, 1087
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm
LL, V8, p 237, 238
EDIT
It's definitely a direction and 1087 is very intriguing and should be looked into more as well. And it definitely seems like a physical direction.
Peace
1087 is a verse with various interpretations. 1087 can mean "in front" , "Before" or "opposite side" with almost the same meaning. There are more than 300 uses of this root in the Quran.
When you cross refer do not limit yourself with a traditional translation.
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Peace
1087 is a verse with various interpretations. 1087 can mean "in front" , "Before" or "opposite side" with almost the same meaning. There are more than 300 uses of this root in the Quran.
When you cross refer do not limit yourself with a traditional translation.
salam
can you suggest a better interpretation of 1087?
salam
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salam
no reason why you should not think that way, i was only surprised because you are the first person i know to suggest it, and i disagree.
salam
Please explain why you disagree.
We have a physical cube, a physical institute, a physical station of Abraham, but somehow, a physically Straight Path (which is just a few metres away and leads straight into the mosque) is silly? -
Peace OPF,
LOL, well you can bring this up with sunnis, if they not agree with it then the whole theory from them are indeed wrong.
Maria
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Please explain why you disagree.
We have a physical cube, a physical institute, a physical station of Abraham, but somehow, a physically Straight Path (which is just a few metres away and leads straight into the mosque) is silly?salam
perhaps in another thread, let us deal with the topic in hand in this one!
salam
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salam ignoramus
The verse 1087 is addressed to both Moses and Aaron. It may be that the verse is instructing them to establish houses for their people ?within Egypt/ bi misra? (since the command to take the Children of Israel and leave Egypt has not come as yet) and to make houses for Moses and Aaron in front /before/on the opposite meaning outside Egypt/out side the jurisdiction of Pharaoh. Please note the difference in the use of ?establish houses? for the people and ?make houses? for Moses and Aaron.
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.
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salam ignoramus
The verse 1087 is addressed to both Moses and Aaron. It may be that the verse is instructing them to establish houses for their people ?within Egypt/ bi misra? (since the command to take the Children of Israel and leave Egypt has not come as yet) and to make houses for Moses and Aaron in front /before/on the opposite meaning outside Egypt/out side the jurisdiction of Pharaoh. Please note the difference in the use of ?establish houses? for the people and ?make houses? for Moses and Aaron.
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.
salam
your translation does not quite make sense to me, could you please give a complete translation of the verse. also, there seems to be mention of blessings towards the end.
thank you.
salam
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salam ignoramus
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
This is in line with the Quranic meaning when we check the use of this root in other verses. Qibla to mean 'a place of convening' or 'focal point' are natural off shoots of the corrupted meaning of ?direction?. These meanings have no basis in the Quraan.
Qibla = focal point
can be proved from following logic.
A person ,who was learning English was repeating the word "Hen" loudly like this .
"Hen means black ,hen means black ,hen means black."
Someone listened and said to him "hen does not mean "black" rather it means a domestic bird which lays eggs.You know what did that person replied?? "I see.Don't you know that hen is sometimes black ? Yes ,then ? If hen is black ,then hen means black. -
Although the verse is usually read Qiblathan it can be also ?Qubalathan? and according to Lanes this means ?The direction, point, place in front of a thing, the opposite direction?.
Salaam warner, all
The difference between "qiblatan" and "qubaalata" is not just the diatrical signs, but also the spelling. Where I put a double "a" is suppsed to be an alif that does not exist in "qiblatan"
qiblatan
qibaalata -
Salaam all
In verse 1087 I am not much concerned with the word "qibla" as I am with "misr". The reason is that those people are supposedly in Egypt already, and definitely have homes; so why would Moses and Aaron be commanded to make homes for them in "Egypt"?
Here is my understanding
The word "misr" is not Egypt. It means "boarder; foot of mountain". This is logical. They are commanded to take those believers to the boarders, and the house/s of Aaroun and Moses will be the center of their homes so that they can meet and study their new faith or the ten commandments (yuqimuu al salaat) and be ready. Later, they will be lead across the boarders away from the jurisdiction of the Pharaoh. That's why they were asked to move the people near the boarders -
Salaam warner, all
The difference between "qiblatan" and "qubaalata" is not just the diatrical signs, but also the spelling. Where I put a double "a" is suppsed to be an alif that does not exist in "qiblatan"
qiblatan
qibaalataSalaam Samia
I am checking on that. Thanks
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Salaam
Egypt is used in the Quran many times do you see all these uses as border? Even if the meaning of misr incorporates border it can mean the country Egypt.
1087 do you mean qiblathan means center? Why do you think it can not be towards.
Well, maybe misr/Egypt is called so because it is the boarder of the region then. In this verse I just do not understand why Moses and Aaroun were commanded to "build houses" in Egypt to people who are already living in houses in Egypt.
As for the "centre", I think I was thinking faster than writing! qibla means facing each other { } ( from al qamous almuheet) , so I imagined that their house will be in the centre to be facing all the other houses.