Question regarding Zina
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What's your definition of adultery?
I use the word "zina" not adultrey. I understand adultrey as a sexual act outside wedlock. If so, this is not the definition of zina. Unmarried people can also commit zina.
Instead of putting a counter question ,first answer my question.
You saidAre we now talking about adultery or zina?
your way of questioning indicates that you think "adultery and Zina" are two different acts.
Please define them separately with evidence.
Then I will definitely answer your question. -
Instead of putting a counter question ,first answer my question.
You saidyour way of questioning indicates that you think "adultery and Zina" are two different acts.
Please define them separately with evidence.
Then I will definitely answer your question.I explained my understanding of the word adultery. I answer in my own way. Take it or leave it
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Instead of putting a counter question ,first answer my question.
You saidyour way of questioning indicates that you think "adultery and Zina" are two different acts.
Please define them separately with evidence.
Then I will definitely answer your question.It is rather obvious. Most people translate "zina" as "adultery" even when zina is "adultery & fornication", hence the question - "Do you mean adultery or do you mean zina", implying that if the answer was "I meant adultery" then the subsequent response would be "zina is both adultery and fornication".
http//i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/dsg2003mustanggt/91174851.jpg
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Back to our old ways, are we?
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Hi.
Samia, thanks for the clarification, I think this topic is becoming clearer in my head as there were a few doubts before.
Allen, OPF, Bigmo I suggest you read some of the other threads where this topic has been discussed quite extensively, by samia, ayman, tanveer and others... i think it will clear some of your doubts and might address some of your questions as well... thats what i did and there was a lot to learn. u can search 'zani' by user 'ayman' - that'll work.Samia, one more question though ... in 244-9 and 415, does shahada mean eye witness or can it also mean evidence? I use the Hans Wehr dictionary and the root word sahida means to witness, testify, or see with ones own eyes. But a derivative of the word sahada could mean evidence as well? What do u think? Is Hans Wehr good to use or should i use others to get a broad perspective?
Peace.
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Salaam Hadi
Welcome aboard the forum ;D
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Those who had sex with a prostitute are not sound witnesses and their testimony is not accepted.
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Admission by her, yes. There is a procedure for that in front of an authority (a judge, for example).
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Are we now talking about adultery or zina? The punishment is for zina (public sex) and the case in number 2 above.
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No single person, other than the spouse, has the right to accuse another, otherwise they will be lashed 80 lashes (accusation without bringing 4 witnesses). Again, adultery is not zina as long as it is not witnessed by the spouse. Because it is nobody's business (other than the spouse) to report it and it does not affect them as it does the spouse. Of course he/she has the choice to keep quiet and solve the problem. If he/she does not want to continue in the marriage, he/she has to go to the judge and do the procedure. The accused also can deny the charge, but in either case they will be divorced.
Zina is a kind of fahisha. Not all fahisha is zina
Peace,
I must say that Samia explain it very logic when she says that adultery can only be zina when it's witnessed by the spouse who are the ones who will be concerned of such an act.
To have sex when you are not married is an awful act but if you do it secretly(not public) then you cannot be punished for it in form of lashes. But instead it's between you and God and God can punish you if He wants.
And 2433 And let those who are not able to marrycontinue to be chasteuntil God enriches them of His bounty......
Peace
Maria -
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Peace,
I must say that Samia explain it very logic when she says that adultery can only be zina when it's witnessed by the spouse who are the ones who will be concerned of such an act.
To have sex when you are not married is an awful act but if you do it secretly(not public) then you cannot be punished for it in form of lashes. But instead it's between you and God and God can punish you if He wants.
And 2433 And let those who are not able to marrycontinue to be chasteuntil God enriches them of His bounty......
Peace
MariaZina is Zina ,no matter how it is
-secret or open
-married or unmarried
-with witnesses or without witnesses.
Can you tell me which word in arabic is used for "Adultery"?? where Quran has used that word ? -
Zina is Zina ,no matter how it is
-secret or open
-married or unmarried
-with witnesses or without witnesses.
Can you tell me which word in arabic is used for "Adultery"?? where Quran has used that word ?You are correct but realistically, "zina" cannot be prosecuted for unless it is public (where 4 witnesses constitutes it being public). Ref 4912.
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Show me presence of four persons Please highlight those words and put them back
49121249
I pity you.
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Peace,
2+2=4
In 4912 we are told NOT to spy on one another and to avoid suspicion, now tell me what situations will produce 4 witnesses
a) public sex
b) the person has had sex with at least 4 different partners (most likely more than that) and they all come forward as witnesses...I say more because not all (if any) would come forward.
c)porn, which usually has more than 4 witnesses present
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Zina is Zina ,no matter how it is
-secret or open
-married or unmarried
-with witnesses or without witnesses.
Can you tell me which word in arabic is used for "Adultery"?? where Quran has used that word ?Peace,
I can only tell you my own understandings and hopefully sis Samia or someone else with arabic knowledge can give you exactly the translation you look for and where it is.
I guess Adultery and fornications are the same and they fall in the category of zina but only the public one the ones that are witnessed are the ones that can be put infront of the judge and there can be a penalty.
I don't think it's more difficult than that, really. God doesn't want to put too much on our shoulders to bear and He likes the repenters and the good-doers.
Peace
Maria -
Peace,
I can only tell you my own understandings and hopefully sis Samia or someone else with arabic knowledge can give you exactly the translation you look for and where it is.
I guess Adultery and fornications are the same and they fall in the category of zina but only the public one the ones that are witnessed are the ones that can be put infront of the judge and there can be a penalty.
I don't think it's more difficult than that, really. God doesn't want to put too much on our shoulders to bear and He likes the repenters and the good-doers.
Peace
MariaDear Maria;
It is the question of Punishment.One should be crystal clear
-what is the difference between Zina and Adultery.
-Public act ?? ,show me the pre-requisite of four Witnesses for proving of Zina imentioned in the Quran . -
Dear Maria;
It is the question of Punishment.One should be crystal clear
-what is the difference between Zina and Adultery.
-Public act ?? ,show me the pre-requisite of four Witnesses for proving of Zina imentioned in the Quran .A - Adultery is a subset of "zina".
B - 244, 246, 2413, 415
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A - Adultery is a subset of "zina".
B - 244, 246, 2413, 415
Please put the actual ayas (arabic text) and their translation here .Thanks
Along with please put the definition of Adultery and Zina and their respective Arabic equivalents used in the holy Quran.Thanks again -
Please put the actual ayas (arabic text) and their translation here .Thanks
Along with please put the definition of Adultery and Zina and their respective Arabic equivalents used in the holy Quran.Thanks againBrother Allen
what better explanation do you want than what Samia has already given you?
According to Koran a person is called a Zani , if there are 4 evidences to it (to make sure) and only then the punishment as such can be applied.
if you read , 24-2 ,3 the word Zani and punishment is used only in conjunction with 4 witness, and once you read further on 24-4,5,6, you will find that 4 witnesses requirement is not fulfilled, so the word Zina is not used , but only accusation is used, It does not say accusation of Zina.
A "fahisha" when not witnessed by 4, can only be termed as an accusation, and, becomes Zina, only when there are 4 witnesses.
siki
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Brother Allen
what better explanation do you want than what Samia has already given you?
According to Koran a person is called a Zani , if there are 4 evidences to it (to make sure) and only then the punishment as such can be applied.
if you read , 24-2 ,3 the word Zani and punishment is used only in conjunction with 4 witness, and once you read further on 24-4,5,6, you will find that 4 witnesses requirement is not fulfilled, so the word Zina is not used , but only accusation is used, It does not say accusation of Zina.
A "fahisha" when not witnessed by 4, can only be termed as an accusation, and, becomes Zina, only when there are 4 witnesses.
siki
This is what Samia said
What's your definition of adultery?
I use the word "zina" not adultrey. I understand adultrey as a sexual act outside wedlock. If so, this is not the definition of zina. Unmarried people can also commit zina.
Honestly , ,my small brain could not catch.
Show what definition did she put for Zina ??
You say what better definition ?
Please I request you to
-- Precisely define the Zina and Adultery
--What is the arabic word for adultery
-- Where it is used in the Quran
---Where in the Quran it is said that to prove the act of Zina four witnesses are needed.
Kindly I request you to put the Arabic Ayaats + their translations .Only references are just to deceive the readers.
Thanks in advance -
Friends , we have a problem here
4.15-17 If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or God ordain for them some (other) way,If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful,God accept the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards; to them will God turn in mercy For God is full of knowledge and wisdom.
Can somebody explain above?
we have fornication/adultry/being committed , and we have 4 witnesses too, yet these women are not being labeled as Zanias, and even the punishement is different
I think brother Alen has a point.
siki