Using the word "muslim" in an english conversation
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Salam,
Quote from SAbboushi on Today at 052329 PM
Honor ? you said
I don?t disagree with your statement. I believe my original argument was NOT that it was WRONG ? I was suggesting that it can / does LEAD TO PROBLEMS when using these Arabic words WHEN SPEAKING WITH non-muslims / those that do not speak Arabic. I understand that you acknowledge this as true, but that you disagree with the merits of translating these words as a solution. The point I intended to make is that since non-Arabs/ non-muslims have an INCORRECT understanding / association of what these Arabic words mean that it can be divisive ? AND I was trying to support my position that these words are not nouns.I can't remember ever having any such problems. If anything it has always led the door straight to the Quran (that came in the Arabic language).
Maybe you can give a specific example of how "it can / does LEAD TO PROBLEMS when using these Arabic words WHEN SPEAKING WITH non-muslims / those that do not speak Arabic."
Salam,
I can't remember ever having any such problems. If anything it has always led the door straight to the Quran (that came in the Arabic language).
Maybe you can give a specific example of how "it can / does LEAD TO PROBLEMS when using these Arabic words WHEN SPEAKING WITH non-muslims / those that do not speak Arabic."
Salam M_Mehdi~
This quote above is not from me,but from sAbboushi. Please make sure you and all understand this. I did not make this quote. This is sAbboushis quote to me in response to a comment I made to him, these are his words and not mine.
Honor
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Salam,
With all due respect, your stated problem and solution are one and the same.
The problems arise [even with so-called Muslims who SPEAK Arabic and even native Arabic speakers.
If "problems" arise "even" with those who "speak arabic" and "even native arabic speakers" then what makes you think that the same so called "problems" would not arise with "even" those who "speak english" and "even" with "native english speakers"?
I've even seen the same problems on this very board when speaking and using english only. Therefore, I do not see how changing a word from Arabic to English will prevent or even attempt to eliminate any such misunderstandings
Peace M_Mehdi,
It will alleviate the problem because at least the two parties will know what the other is talking about...
Apparently not.
peace.
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As-Salaamu Alaikum all on this thread,
I haven't followed this thread for quite some time and just got a chance to read the last page. To sum up my position of all the excellent points on here, I simply quote M-Mehdi's last response below. I understand other's intent and reasons, but the fact of the matter is that when you translate it, it will only create "your" understanding of the term that can be different from person to person. The issue is still not solved by translating "muslim" to "one who submits" or "one who is at peace or peaceful", or whatever. Last I also checked, a proper noun is a NAME, not a description. I am not an english major or grammarian, so don't hold me to it if I am wrong. But "muslim" is a descriptive title, not a name.
Either way, I don't think there is any compulsion for anyone. If you like to translate it, cool. If I don't like to translate it, why does it bother you how I describe myself to other people? Why try to convince me that I am wrong to do such or that your way is better? Did Allah address this in Al Quran? Even though you (being whomever) and I agree that we both follow the Quran only, that doesn't mean that we beleive the same things about "Islam" and "muslim".
As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Salam,
With all due respect, your stated problem and solution are one and the same.
If "problems" arise "even" with those who "speak arabic" and "even native arabic speakers" then what makes you think that the same so called "problems" would not arise with "even" those who "speak english" and "even" with "native english speakers"?
Apparently not.
peace.
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wa alaykum imamQuranonly
Why try to convince me that I am wrong to do such or that your way is better? Did Allah address this in Al Quran? Even though you (being whomever) and I agree that we both follow the Quran only, that doesn't mean that we beleive the same things about "Islam" and "muslim".
11118 And had your Lord wished, He could have made all the people one nation, but they still would continue to disagree.
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Fahad posted a link to an article named "Can a non-muslim be a muslim?" (? Reply #59 on April 10, 2007, 083027 AM ?)
I am no longer able to access the article using that link, and so I am posting the article here
Can a non-Muslim be a muslim?
Published February 26th, 2007 Al Kitab , Fahad , Muslims , Traditionalism , Quran , culture , Islam 0 Comments
The word ?muslim? is nowadays used as a label. It has become a cultural thing (like Islamic names, Islamic art, Islamic architecture etc). If you are born in a family labeled ?Muslim?, you automatically become one. The word is now used for the so-called followers of Al-Quran, or those who hold the book ?sacred?.But that?s not how Al-Quran has used the word ?muslim?. On the contrary, according to Al-Quran, a muslim is the one who submits to the law of God, even without Al-Quran. Yes, you can be a muslim even before coming across and believing in Al-Quran, if you had already submitted to God?s law.
Al-Quran calls such muslimeen ?those who are given al-kitaab/kitaabillah by God?
28/52 Those to whom We gave al-kitaab from before this, they will believe in it.
28/53 And when it is recited to them, they say ?We believe in it. Surely it is the truth from our Lord. Indeed, we were already muslimeen/submitters from before it.??
Fahad -
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I agree you should avoid using the word muslim for yourself.
Is this the character of a muslim?
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Is this the character of a muslim?
It was tarikh's own wish.I just endorsed .He said
Peace, i feel the same as you. I call myself a quranic monotheist. Simple. God understands why we would want to avoid using the word muslim in order not to be associated with the hypos
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Hi Bigmo-
Hmmm... good point I recall the Quran saying that the animals and the mountains and the clouds submit to God's will. Does anyone know if any of these verses use the arabic word "muslim" to describe the animals / mountains / clouds and if so, what verses?
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Hi Bigmo-
Hmmm... good point I recall the Quran saying that the animals and the mountains and the clouds submit to God's will. Does anyone know if any of these verses use the arabic word "muslim" to describe the animals / mountains / clouds and if so, what verses?
You just said it yourself...
Supposing I said "Animals dig holes", are animals then not "diggers"?
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Come to think of it, I agree with you in a sense. 2278 says that the followers of Abraham are named muslims by God.
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Thanks OPF - yes I agree, but I do not want to draw such a conclusion about the Quran without verifying it (i.e. I want to look at the verses myself). So if anyone can refer me to such verses, I would be appreciative!
Dear;
Sorry to say your conclusion is not correct.If we accept this concept then none will be non-muslim in this world even the atheists or Kaffirs will be a 'a muslim".Every atheist or kaffir is composed of a body which is in turn composed of different organs which are working according to law of nature.
-Neurons ---- function --------conduction of impulses ----- doing their job as sun is doing his job- Heart ------- function -- pumping of blood -----doing its job
-lungs ----- function ----- respiration --------- doing its job
and so on.
From this point of view that 'being bound to law of nature' is islam ,every atom or molecule existing in the unirverse will become muslim [LoL)
While "Islam" and "Muslim" (one who accepts Islam) are specific terms which are used only for human beings who have been awarded 'discretionary powers" to accept or reject it.That is why human beings are subject to reward /punishments NOT ANIMALS AND INANIMATE OBJECTS WHICH ARE BOUND TO 'LAW OF NATURE'
Prophets were sent for this "guidance " of human beings not animals or inanimate objects. - Heart ------- function -- pumping of blood -----doing its job
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Hi Bigmo-
Hmmm... good point I recall the Quran saying that the animals and the mountains and the clouds submit to God's will. Does anyone know if any of these verses use the arabic word "muslim" to describe the animals / mountains / clouds and if so, what verses?
3.79 It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the prophetic office, should say to people "Be ye my worshippers rather than God's" on the contrary (He would say) "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all For ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."
3.80 Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for Lords and patrons. What! would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (To God in Islam)?
3.81 Behold! God took the covenant of the prophets, saying "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you an apostle, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." God said "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said "We agree." He said "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."
3.82 If any turn back after this, they are perverted transgressors.
3.83. Do they seek for other than the Religion of God-while all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling, bowed to His Will , and to Him shall they all be brought back.
3.84. Say "We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to God do we bow our will (in Islam)."
3.85. If anyone desires a religion other than Islam never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
(79) (80) (81) (82) (83) (84)
The word Islam appears in all the bolded parts of these verses.
Also
?Do you not see that to God bow down in worship (sujood) all things that are in the heavens and on the earth - the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, the animals?? (Quran 221
?The seven heavens and the earth and all the beings therein proclaim His glory There is not a thing but celebrates His praise(do tasbeeh), but you understand not how they declare His glory?? (Quran 1744)
?To God bow all beings (do sujood) in the heavens and the earth - with good will or in spite of themselves?? (Quran 1315)
Also
Al-Hajj (Chapter 22, Verse 1
"Don't you see that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth - the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, the animals, and a great number among mankind? But a great number are also such as are fit for punishment and such as Allah shall disgrace, none can raise to honor for Allah carried out all that He wills."Al-Nahl (Chapter 16, Verses 49-50)
"And unto Allah prostrate all that is in heavens and on earth, whether moving living creatures or the angels for none are arrogant (before their Lord). They all fear their Lord High above them, and they do all that they are commanded." -
Hi Allen-
I am interested in your interpretation of 383
Are they seeking other than GOD's religion, when everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned?
It looks to me like the Arabic word used here is ?