testament
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peace all
what about when women are maintainers? what about when spend out of their property?
lets not forget 45
45 And do not give the immature ones their money which God has entrusted to you, and spend on them from it and clothe them, and speak to them in goodness.now this immature doesn't only refer to kids up until lets say 18 years old.
lets say i have 3 kids, a son and 2 daughters, and rest of the family is dead and i'm leaving everything to my kids and according to 411 the male would get as much as 2 females get, right, so if i'm leavng a million they would distribute it like this
male 500.000
2 females 250.000 each
what about if the male is a greedy cheap man who is obsessed with money and 2 girls are kind and they give to others? would it really be fair to give my son more money?what about when women are maintainers? what about when spend out of their property?
Then the male segment of society responsible for them have failed miserably ). If women spend out of their property, so be it, but it isn't decreed in the quran that they have to, to my knowledge. Unless we are talking about the last woman on Earth...
lets say i have 3 kids, a son and 2 daughters, and rest of the family is dead and i'm leaving everything to my kids and according to 411 the male would get as much as 2 females get, right, so if i'm leavng a million they would distribute it like this
male 500.000
2 females 250.000 each
what about if the male is a greedy cheap man who is obsessed with money and 2 girls are kind and they give to others? would it really be fair to give my son more money?Emphasis mine. According to the bold, you have simply failed in your duty by knowingly funneling money in the wrong direction. A person is advised to draw a will in 2180-182 and this sort of situation is clearly dealt with in those verses.
These situations will never arise, as long as one sticks to quranic decree.
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Salam OPF
Spending is not decreed by gender, but by ability.
Verse 4;34 is narrowed down to couples. What do brothers and sisters have to do with it?
Can you cite where in the quraan women shoul not support a family, or where it is stated that only men should support a family (apart from verse 434, which I do not find it supports spending by a specific gender)? Families are not just a husband and a wife. Many widows support their families, women support their siblings and parents...etc. Moreover, I do not see the wisdom behind leaving a woman under the mercy of her brother.
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432 does not mention anything about being protectors or maintainers, it only states a simple fact, that you reap what you sow.
Salam OPF
Spending is not decreed by gender, but by ability.
Verse 4;34 is narrowed down to couples. What do brothers and sisters have to do with it?
Can you cite where in the quraan women shoul not support a family, or where it is stated that only men should support a family (apart from verse 434, which I do not find it supports spending by a specific gender)? Families are not just a husband and a wife. Many widows support their families, women support their siblings and parents...etc. Moreover, I do not see the wisdom behind leaving a woman under the mercy of her brother.
Look at the context of 434, who is being addressed? Men. Does this change in 436? 438? 439? What do those verses command, command to men, who have been decreed as maintainers who spend from their money?
Women supporting their families may happen, but as I said, it means the male segment of society failed somewhere.
Can you cite where in the quraan women shoul not support a family, or where it is stated that only men should support a family (apart from verse 434, which I do not find it supports spending by a specific gender)? Families are not just a husband and a wife. Many widows support their families, women support their siblings and parents...etc. Moreover, I do not see the wisdom behind leaving a woman under the mercy of her brother.
It isn't stated, but don't bring strawman arguments, that isn't my point. 434 very clearly favours that men should be the "breadwinner" and gives a simple reason for that case, several reasons in fact. The simple fact, that no feminist or other can get away from is that men are physically adapted to being "breadwinners", women are not. Were you not the one saying "God has perfected creation but the Sunnis wish to change it by circumcision"? If you feel this isn't a good state of affairs, either wait a few billion years or join the praying mantis' kingdoms. Snappy creatures.
Moreover, I do not see the wisdom behind leaving a woman under the mercy of her brother.
Where is that being said?
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Salaam POF
Look at the context of 434, who is being addressed? Men. Does this change in 436? 438? 439? What do those verses command, command to men, who have been decreed as maintainers who spend from their money?
"Rijaal" does not primarily mean "men". It means those who seek; on foot. It could be "men" or "women". Also, "nisaa'" is not the plural of "imra'a" but the plural of "nas' " the delayed; remainder, left behind. We find both meanings in the quraan.
You have to notice that the verse speaks about a general situation, not for mu'mins or God believers. And this is the case those who work and earn are responsible for those who are left behind. Unless those earners are God fearing, they can be arrogant and hurting. The verse then gives examples of the female "rijaal" the first "keeps the secret" does not boast around by her spending on those who are vulnerable; the second is arrogant "naashez". It is also familiar that the qur'aan gives exaple of women for a mixed group wife of far3un and ariam as examples to the believers "mu'minuun"; wife of Lot and wife of Noah as example of the disbelievers "kafiruun"
Why would the verse give an example of the "receivers"? Does the quraan EVER tell us whom to spend on (regarding their righteousness) other than about their need?
Where is that being said?
Isn't the whole thing was in response to
what's so wrong about the 2 getting equal share?
also, about inheritance in the quran, why does it say that males get more then females?
And your response
Because
434 - Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property;
The woman has no obligation to do so.
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These meanings, are new to me. So a dower is paid to "the delayed/remainder" in 44? How does it work with 415/16? What about, say, 146?
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Salaam POF
"Rijaal" does not primarily mean "men". It means those who seek; on foot. It could be "men" or "women". Also, "nisaa'" is not the plural of "imra'a" but the plural of "nas' " the delayed; remainder, left behind. We find both meanings in the quraan.
Please reference is requested.
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These meanings, are new to me. So a dower is paid to "the delayed/remainder" in 44? How does it work with 415/16? What about, say, 146?
Sorry I was not very clear. The words "rijaal" and "nisaa'" do not only mean "men" and "women", but have other meanings, also used in the quraan.
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Please reference is requested.
2227
"People" includes men and women, and they come "rijaala"
4127
"They ask you about "nisaa'", say God will advise you about the mothers of orphans you want to marry without paying them their dues, and the vulnerable children and to be fair with orphans".
"nisaa'" includes all these categories mothers of orphans; vulnerable children and the orphans themselves
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Sorry I was not very clear. The words "rijaal" and "nisaa'" do not only mean "men" and "women", but have other meanings, also used in the quraan.
And since when did the meaning shift even with the same context?
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And since when did the meaning shift even with the same context?
I do not understand what you mean. You brought up other verses, I replied in general that not everywhere you find "nisaa'" it means "the vulnerable" for example. Just like "rijaal", it does not always mean "seekers/on foot". As for chapter 4, what does it talk about? Mainly orphans, also mothers of rphans and vulnerable children. It is about "the Vulnerable" not "Women"
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???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ????? 2227
"People" includes men and women, and they come "rijaala"
????????? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? 4127
"They ask you about "nisaa'", say God will advise you about the mothers of orphans you want to marry without paying th ?em their dues, and the vulnerable children and to be fair with orphans".
"nisaa'" includes all these categories mothers of orphans; vulnerable children and the orphans themselves
Salaam, Samia,
I follow what you say with great interest and I feel tha I am learning a lot.
Concerning this ocurrence of "nisaa'" I see that they are referred to as "fihinna". If it is refering to the orphans and vulnerable children, would plural feminine still be used ?
Thanks
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Salaam, Samia,
I follow what you say with great interest and I feel tha I am learning a lot.
Concerning this ocurrence of "nisaa'" I see that they are referred to as "fihinna". If it is refering to the orphans and vulnerable children, would plural feminine still be used ?
Thanks
Salaam huruf
Thanks for the interest in what I say.
pronouns follow the word, not its meaning. If we are talking about a "group of men" we will use the feminine singular pronoun for it, since the word jamaa3a is feminine singular, even if it is a group of a hundred male boxers!
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Salaam POF
"Rijaal" does not primarily mean "men". It means those who seek; on foot. It could be "men" or "women". Also, "nisaa'" is not the plural of "imra'a" but the plural of "nas' " the delayed; remainder, left behind. We find both meanings in the quraan.
Dear Samia
Thanks for input
You saidRijaal" does not primarily mean "men".
Whenever "Rajulun" is in the meaning of "sex" of human beings it is always "man" never "woman"
In fact 'rijaal' (when it is plural of "rajulun= man" does mean "men" primarily" .
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( )You are confusing this "rijaal" when it becomes plural of "raajilun" which means "pedestrian" then no doubt it is used for "men" or woman" commonly.But then it does not mean "woman" but " pedestrian"
This is the meaning of "pedestrian" which is given in your quoted verse
2227
(2227) and make a proclamation to the people to come to you for Hajj from far and near, on foot and on lean *46 camels022.027
YUSUFALI "And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways;
PICKTHAL And proclaim unto mankind the pilgrimage. They will come unto thee on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every deep ravine,
SHAKIR And proclaim among men the Pilgrimage they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, coming from every remote path,This word "rijaalan" in this verse is not in the meaning of" sex" rather in the meaning of "state" of their coming i.e on foot.
You also said
Also, "nisaa'" is not the plural of "imra'a" but the plural of "nas' "
I do not know your source of information;
"Nisaa" is the plural of "imra3atun"/
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Your whole concept is revolving aroung the verse
4127
No doubt the question is about "Nisaa" and its answer is expanded.
The reason is "Kuffar" used not give inheritance to women,orphans and Younger ones.It is the reason answer is expanded collectively because of similar treatment carried out in case of inheritance by Kuffaar.
It does not mean at all the word "nisaa" itself contain all those meanings.
Because in that all other verses which contain this word will be compromised in case of meaning. - ( 11 / 265)