Muslim women are permitted to sing in public according to the Qur'an
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Salaam,
I did not say that "singing" is haram. Some also show reservation about venue of singing. After all what is the point and necessity that a lady should sing in the public except amusing/fascinating people?
6601 is with relation to the thing that has been declared and made known as "Hilal". Where singing has been declared as allowed/hilal?I did not say that "singing" is haram
Yes, apologies but you were at least implying that 'public exposure' should be.
From You
Focussing the vision gives the strongest "....signal", then comes the voice and then comes the "....odor". Public exposure needs to be avoided.
After all what is the point and necessity that a lady should sing in the public except amusing/fascinating people?
Again, why are you limiting this to women singing? Many women also find men's singing provocative too.
And what's wrong with 'amusing' and 'fascinating'
6601 is with relation to the thing that has been declared and made known as "Hilal". Where singing has been declared as allowed/hilal?
You missed the point. The prophet prohibited something that was lawful; to please his wives. We have to be very careful to prohibit something that God didn't do himself. That's also bad logic, just because something isn't said as allowed, it doesn't make it forbidden. Example There's no verse that states 'don't commit bestiality' (literally), so does that mean bestiality is allowed just because it's not mentioned and forbidden straight up?
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Thanks DArgento,
There is not much dispute; singing of female and male privately or publically, still mood or dancing, has neither been specifically declared as Haram nor Hilal. The point is not to forcibly prohibit it. The only point is that what is the necessity of promoting it?
A principle has been laid down that only that is Hilal which is Tayub and anything, statement, act which falls in the vicinity of Khabees would fall in the category of prohibited, discouraged, disallowed, not liked though in every field it will be found in abundance but its abundance should not surprise/allure us. This needs to be emphasized and focussed upon.
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Thanks DArgento,
There is not much dispute; singing of female and male privately or publically, still mood or dancing, has neither been specifically declared as Haram nor Hilal. The point is not to forcibly prohibit it. The only point is that what is the necessity of promoting it?
A principle has been laid down that only that is Hilal which is Tayub and anything, statement, act which falls in the vicinity of Khabees would fall in the category of prohibited, discouraged, disallowed, not liked though in every field it will be found in abundance but its abundance should not surprise/allure us. This needs to be emphasized and focussed upon.
Promoting it is done for a reason, to change the equilibrium/balance. The Sunni world is extremely restrictive, you could also say the same for Black History Month, but that serves the same purpose.
I find your usage of tayyib strange since as far as I see, the Quran only uses it in conjunction with halah with regards to food. How is 5100 related to this? It does not say halal = tayyib only (look for hadeeth on that matter).
What, honestly, is the purpose of a good voice if it isn't going to be used? Every other part of the human body has some purpose, and use in moderation, is the larynx exempt?
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I find your usage of tayyib strange since as far as I see, the Quran only uses it in conjunction with halah with regards to food. How is 5100 related to this? It does not say halal = tayyib only (look for hadeeth on that matter){OPF}
Dear OPF,
This perception is perhaps the result of your haste in posting it. Otherwise had you checked the word Tayub you might not have said it. Even an utterence of the mouth is either Tayub or Khabees. And it has been said that the Last Messenger declares for you the Attayebaat as Halal and declares AlKhbais as Haram.
Which hadeeth you are referring since I have not studied the hadith literature. Please also look into the qualities of "Ibaad" of Ar Rehman and then find what would be their opinion about participating and enjoying a show where Pop singer girls are making the..................
Let people keep enjoying in whatever manner they like, we need to guard ourselves. -
Dear OPF,
This perception is perhaps the result of your haste in posting it. Otherwise had you checked the word Tayub you might not have said it. Even an utterence of the mouth is either Tayub or Khabees. And it has been said that the Last Messenger declares for you the Attayebaat as Halal and declares AlKhbais as Haram.
Which hadeeth you are referring since I have not studied the hadith literature. Please also look into the qualities of "Ibaad" of Ar Rehman and then find what would be their opinion about participating and enjoying a show where Pop singer girls are making the..................
Let people keep enjoying in whatever manner they like, we need to guard ourselves.I understand that but where is a quranic reference? Didn't you say the quran was its own dictionary at one point?
From Muslim;
Book 005, Number 2214
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying 0 people, Allah is Good and He therefore, accepts only that which is good. And Allah commanded the believers as He commanded the Messengers by saying" O Messengers, eat of the good things, and do good deeds; verily I am aware of what you do" (xxiii. 51). And He said ' 0 those who believe, eat of the good things that We gave you" (ii. 172) He then made a mention of a person who travels widely, his hair dishevelled and covered with dust. He lifts his hand towards the sky (and thus makes the supplication)" O Lord,0 Lord," whereas his diet is unlawful, his drink is unlawful, and his clothes are unlawful and his nourishment is unlawful. How can then his supplication be accepted?
Please also look into the qualities of "Ibaad" of Ar Rehman and then find what would be their opinion about participating and enjoying a show where Pop singer girls are making the..................
Let people keep enjoying in whatever manner they like, we need to guard ourselves.What does the original poster mean by "public singing"?
And what about Umm Kulthum? Why is she so celebrated by the same government that imprisons quranists?
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Peace SwedenMajidah, OPF, all,
Peace Amuslim,
Very good question you raised. I have also wondering such if really Quran says that the opposite gender shall keep apart from eachother?
My personal thought though is that it increase the curiosity about the opposite gender and it can lead to more breaking the moral laws.
Maria
That could be true. But the same could be said for things that are made Haram. For example, sex outside of marriage, pork, etc. Curiousity could also lead to breaking the laws.
However, I personally am not against opposite genders mixing. However, that brings more problems as well. Boyfriends/girlfriends as a the status quo, making out, etc. Now Im not saying that everyone would do that in an Ummah, but thats possibilities. It also lessens the actual love IMO for a person due to the fact that there are "more fish in the sea", etc.
I think it really needs to be thought through though.
What, honestly, is the purpose of a good voice if it isn't going to be used? Every other part of the human body has some purpose, and use in moderation, is the larynx exempt?
Just to add to the other side of the conversation, why exactly does having a good voice = purpose for singing? Also, the good voice could be used only for mahram, it doesnt need to be shown in public though.
For example, if my wife had breast surgery or something, she cant show it out in public. She can show it around me though. I dont mean to sound sick, but it makes a good example of when and when not to show something. Her beauty is for her husband, likewise for the man.
Waqul lilmu/minati yaghdudna min absarihinna wayahfathna furoojahunna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa ma thahara minha
If singing is part of their beauty, is it therefore not to be displayed in public, except that which is necessary?
However, on the other side, what about jewelry? If Im not mistaken, thats allowed in the Quran? Astagfirullah if I am wrong. Such as the metals we dive to get. Then again, it can be said that this is manmade, therefore its not the zeenat of the women, which is the physical body.
Say, "Who prohibited the nice things GOD has created for His creatures, and the good provisions?" Say, "Such provisions are to be enjoyed in this life by those who believe. Moreover, the good provisions will be exclusively theirs on the Day of Resurrection." We thus explain the revelations for people who know.
Peace
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Just to add to the other side of the conversation, why exactly does having a good voice = purpose for singing? Also, the good voice could be used only for mahram, it doesnt need to be shown in public though.
The keyword is moderation. As I said, Umm Kulthum was incredibly successful in arguably the most conservative region on Earth.
For example, if my wife had breast surgery or something, she cant show it out in public. She can show it around me though. I dont mean to sound sick, but it makes a good example of when and when not to show something. Her beauty is for her husband, likewise for the man.
There is no comparison here. A voice is always apparent, though the tone decides suggestivity, generally. Firstly, breast surgery is not something "natural" so to speak, and even if we were talking about that, that would go against a clear commandment in the quran for women to draw their veils over their bosoms. Some women have voices that cannot be anything other than suggestive, same with men, as said previously in this thread.
However, on the other side, what about jewelry? If Im not mistaken, thats allowed in the Quran? Astagfirullah if I am wrong. Such as the metals we dive to get. Then again, it can be said that this is manmade, therefore its not the zeenat of the women, which is the physical body.
Why would pearls be otherwise touted as a blessing of God in 5522? And the reference is very clear.
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Reference! regarding what?
This
Otherwise had you checked the word Tayub you might not have said it. Even an utterence of the mouth is either Tayub or Khabees. And it has been said that the Last Messenger declares for you the Attayebaat as Halal and declares AlKhbais as Haram.
The usage in conjunction with "halal" is only with regards to food in the Quran, or did I miss something?
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Would you take 7157 in conjunction with food alone?
Most likely not, it needs cross referencing. But look at the context. The question is whether it is Muhammad or Moses mentioned in 7157-158. Given the flow of the "conversation" between Moses and God, it can only be Moses, but why is it taken to be Muhammad therein? Assuredly Moses would be mentioned far more in Jewish scripture than any "Ahmad" or "Muhammad", and is an Arab considerable as an "ummi" amongst Jews? If it is Moses, then I believe the following and preceding verses make it clear their prayer was answered and according to specific principles, and halal, is again, joined to food here.
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Also if we keep reading from 7159 on, it keeps going with moses; leading me to conclude that 7157 is about Moses rather than Muhammad/Ahmad.
However, on the other side, what about jewelry? If Im not mistaken, thats allowed in the Quran? Astagfirullah if I am wrong.
Definitely allowed 1614, 3512
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Peace amuslim and all,
I guess these questions of what of the beauty and how much of it you can revail and( it goes for both clothes and jewelleries )will always be raised.
I'm one of those that believe we are often ourself to blame. And if we do some mistakes it's good we quickly will turn the bad to something good.
We are supposed to learn something from all events we are joining may it be good or bad.
Therefore God is all merciful and love the repenters.Todays sexual outlook everywhere you turn your face is the result of closed minds. People are spoiled and they feel boring so they want to bring something exiting and forbidden into their lives.
I pity people who enjoys that kind of sex, the only sex I think is good is the sex a husband and his wife have of love. Sex without love is disgusting and only for people who cannot control their desires/their lust.
Why else is public sex banned of God? Because sex should be for married couples and performed in their home for no one else to see. I mean this is a wink for us, we who think further. And there shall be private parts and things to be kept hidden according God.
And I cannot find any place in Quran that says that a muslim woman cannot sing in public. If she behave and dress modest and have lyrics about good subjects so why not!? I don't find that a female singer rise more feelings than a male singer. Personally I listen to both genders.
Peace
Maria -
Peace. Well said, but as i pointed out in my previous post, the audience has been conditioned to listen only to vulgar grotesque sexy singers. I always regret the fact that there are no monotheist bands out there. There is a band called junoon but i believe they are traditionalists. However most of their songs are gr8.
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Peace. Well said, but as i pointed out in my previous post, the audience has been conditioned to listen only to vulgar grotesque sexy singers. I always regret the fact that there are no monotheist bands out there. There is a band called junoon but i believe they are traditionalists. However most of their songs are gr8.
Good proposal for a journey to reach the stage quickly
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I meant monotheist bands who make albums to be listened at home. Playing live is almost a wastage of electricity, etc. How do you guys find www.submissionradio.org ?
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Peace amuslim, all,
If singing is part of their beauty, is it therefore not to be displayed in public, except that which is necessary?
Well said. The command to women about "zeenat" is clear; what needs to be determined now is whether female singing is part of her "zeenat" or not. My personal opinion is that it is part of her "zeenat" and others are free to disagree with that.
I would also like to draw the attention of the readers to the fact that men are not commanded to hide their "zeenat" !! There is no command addressing men not to reveal their "zeenat" except that which is apparent, unless I am mistaken.
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I completely agree with you and add also that women's breathing it is part of their zeenat and they shouldn't breath in public, and in fact I propose that either men or women should be transferred to another planet to avoid exposure to women's zeenat. Men's virtue is in danger and women are qawwamaat over the men, therefore they must protect them from absolutely everything since men are powerless to control anything starting with themselves.
That is my opinion
Salaam
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I completely agree with you and add also that women's breathing it is part of their zeenat and they shouldn't breath in public, and in fact I propose that either men or women should be transferred to another planet to avoid exposure to women's zeenat. Men's virtue is in danger and women are qawwamaat over the men, therefore they must protect them from absolutely everything since men are powerless to control anything starting with themselves.
That is my opinion
Salaam
Now there is another way out if the first solution I proposed seems too radical, men can in fact become qawwamun over their own virtue and keep away from anything they feel will lead them to the wrong path. No need for them to sacrifice their very dear women (they are dear, aren't they?). They can keep away and let their women go anywhere they please, and watch women singers and sportswomen as the please in TV, finally women are not forbidden seeing (or was it hearing?) other women do whatever they want to do. Just keep away. It is so simple I wonder why it didn't occur to those who raise these questions. That is what I would do if I couldn't watch something and may companions want to see it. I would never spoil their fun, an still less their whole life long. That would be really oppresion.
As to the fact that men are not commanded to reveal their zeenat. Well either they don't have any, or if they have, they are allowed to parade it big way. What can I say? I am all for it. Let's get rolling. And please if some of you guys are going to do so, annouce where you are going to be in public so that women, without singing, of course, or even breathing, can see you, because that is not forbidden, you know, and finally no need to go and spend some dear money at Chipendales.
Please, brothers, and sisters, excuse me if I am being a little bit sarcastic, but, I mean, men should not be tempting me this way. I just, simply, miserably, cannot resist. They should not show their... whatever it is (egos, vanity, naivet?), but at any rate non zeenat (which is much allowed), in a public forum. Really, it is way too much excitement for a poor woman like me who has a very poor control, and something should be done about it, otherwise I am afraid that some sarcasm may slip now and and then. If that happens, I am sorry to say, nobody will be to blame but men themselves.
Salam, dear creatures, sepcially the unforbidden masculine ones