Muslim women are permitted to sing in public according to the Qur'an
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Peace SwedenMajidah, OPF, all,
Peace Amuslim,
Very good question you raised. I have also wondering such if really Quran says that the opposite gender shall keep apart from eachother?
My personal thought though is that it increase the curiosity about the opposite gender and it can lead to more breaking the moral laws.
Maria
That could be true. But the same could be said for things that are made Haram. For example, sex outside of marriage, pork, etc. Curiousity could also lead to breaking the laws.
However, I personally am not against opposite genders mixing. However, that brings more problems as well. Boyfriends/girlfriends as a the status quo, making out, etc. Now Im not saying that everyone would do that in an Ummah, but thats possibilities. It also lessens the actual love IMO for a person due to the fact that there are "more fish in the sea", etc.
I think it really needs to be thought through though.
What, honestly, is the purpose of a good voice if it isn't going to be used? Every other part of the human body has some purpose, and use in moderation, is the larynx exempt?
Just to add to the other side of the conversation, why exactly does having a good voice = purpose for singing? Also, the good voice could be used only for mahram, it doesnt need to be shown in public though.
For example, if my wife had breast surgery or something, she cant show it out in public. She can show it around me though. I dont mean to sound sick, but it makes a good example of when and when not to show something. Her beauty is for her husband, likewise for the man.
Waqul lilmu/minati yaghdudna min absarihinna wayahfathna furoojahunna wala yubdeena zeenatahunna illa ma thahara minha
If singing is part of their beauty, is it therefore not to be displayed in public, except that which is necessary?
However, on the other side, what about jewelry? If Im not mistaken, thats allowed in the Quran? Astagfirullah if I am wrong. Such as the metals we dive to get. Then again, it can be said that this is manmade, therefore its not the zeenat of the women, which is the physical body.
Say, "Who prohibited the nice things GOD has created for His creatures, and the good provisions?" Say, "Such provisions are to be enjoyed in this life by those who believe. Moreover, the good provisions will be exclusively theirs on the Day of Resurrection." We thus explain the revelations for people who know.
Peace
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Just to add to the other side of the conversation, why exactly does having a good voice = purpose for singing? Also, the good voice could be used only for mahram, it doesnt need to be shown in public though.
The keyword is moderation. As I said, Umm Kulthum was incredibly successful in arguably the most conservative region on Earth.
For example, if my wife had breast surgery or something, she cant show it out in public. She can show it around me though. I dont mean to sound sick, but it makes a good example of when and when not to show something. Her beauty is for her husband, likewise for the man.
There is no comparison here. A voice is always apparent, though the tone decides suggestivity, generally. Firstly, breast surgery is not something "natural" so to speak, and even if we were talking about that, that would go against a clear commandment in the quran for women to draw their veils over their bosoms. Some women have voices that cannot be anything other than suggestive, same with men, as said previously in this thread.
However, on the other side, what about jewelry? If Im not mistaken, thats allowed in the Quran? Astagfirullah if I am wrong. Such as the metals we dive to get. Then again, it can be said that this is manmade, therefore its not the zeenat of the women, which is the physical body.
Why would pearls be otherwise touted as a blessing of God in 5522? And the reference is very clear.
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Reference! regarding what?
This
Otherwise had you checked the word Tayub you might not have said it. Even an utterence of the mouth is either Tayub or Khabees. And it has been said that the Last Messenger declares for you the Attayebaat as Halal and declares AlKhbais as Haram.
The usage in conjunction with "halal" is only with regards to food in the Quran, or did I miss something?
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Would you take 7157 in conjunction with food alone?
Most likely not, it needs cross referencing. But look at the context. The question is whether it is Muhammad or Moses mentioned in 7157-158. Given the flow of the "conversation" between Moses and God, it can only be Moses, but why is it taken to be Muhammad therein? Assuredly Moses would be mentioned far more in Jewish scripture than any "Ahmad" or "Muhammad", and is an Arab considerable as an "ummi" amongst Jews? If it is Moses, then I believe the following and preceding verses make it clear their prayer was answered and according to specific principles, and halal, is again, joined to food here.
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Also if we keep reading from 7159 on, it keeps going with moses; leading me to conclude that 7157 is about Moses rather than Muhammad/Ahmad.
However, on the other side, what about jewelry? If Im not mistaken, thats allowed in the Quran? Astagfirullah if I am wrong.
Definitely allowed 1614, 3512
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Peace amuslim and all,
I guess these questions of what of the beauty and how much of it you can revail and( it goes for both clothes and jewelleries )will always be raised.
I'm one of those that believe we are often ourself to blame. And if we do some mistakes it's good we quickly will turn the bad to something good.
We are supposed to learn something from all events we are joining may it be good or bad.
Therefore God is all merciful and love the repenters.Todays sexual outlook everywhere you turn your face is the result of closed minds. People are spoiled and they feel boring so they want to bring something exiting and forbidden into their lives.
I pity people who enjoys that kind of sex, the only sex I think is good is the sex a husband and his wife have of love. Sex without love is disgusting and only for people who cannot control their desires/their lust.
Why else is public sex banned of God? Because sex should be for married couples and performed in their home for no one else to see. I mean this is a wink for us, we who think further. And there shall be private parts and things to be kept hidden according God.
And I cannot find any place in Quran that says that a muslim woman cannot sing in public. If she behave and dress modest and have lyrics about good subjects so why not!? I don't find that a female singer rise more feelings than a male singer. Personally I listen to both genders.
Peace
Maria -
Peace. Well said, but as i pointed out in my previous post, the audience has been conditioned to listen only to vulgar grotesque sexy singers. I always regret the fact that there are no monotheist bands out there. There is a band called junoon but i believe they are traditionalists. However most of their songs are gr8.
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Peace. Well said, but as i pointed out in my previous post, the audience has been conditioned to listen only to vulgar grotesque sexy singers. I always regret the fact that there are no monotheist bands out there. There is a band called junoon but i believe they are traditionalists. However most of their songs are gr8.
Good proposal for a journey to reach the stage quickly
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I meant monotheist bands who make albums to be listened at home. Playing live is almost a wastage of electricity, etc. How do you guys find www.submissionradio.org ?
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Peace amuslim, all,
If singing is part of their beauty, is it therefore not to be displayed in public, except that which is necessary?
Well said. The command to women about "zeenat" is clear; what needs to be determined now is whether female singing is part of her "zeenat" or not. My personal opinion is that it is part of her "zeenat" and others are free to disagree with that.
I would also like to draw the attention of the readers to the fact that men are not commanded to hide their "zeenat" !! There is no command addressing men not to reveal their "zeenat" except that which is apparent, unless I am mistaken.
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I completely agree with you and add also that women's breathing it is part of their zeenat and they shouldn't breath in public, and in fact I propose that either men or women should be transferred to another planet to avoid exposure to women's zeenat. Men's virtue is in danger and women are qawwamaat over the men, therefore they must protect them from absolutely everything since men are powerless to control anything starting with themselves.
That is my opinion
Salaam
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I completely agree with you and add also that women's breathing it is part of their zeenat and they shouldn't breath in public, and in fact I propose that either men or women should be transferred to another planet to avoid exposure to women's zeenat. Men's virtue is in danger and women are qawwamaat over the men, therefore they must protect them from absolutely everything since men are powerless to control anything starting with themselves.
That is my opinion
Salaam
Now there is another way out if the first solution I proposed seems too radical, men can in fact become qawwamun over their own virtue and keep away from anything they feel will lead them to the wrong path. No need for them to sacrifice their very dear women (they are dear, aren't they?). They can keep away and let their women go anywhere they please, and watch women singers and sportswomen as the please in TV, finally women are not forbidden seeing (or was it hearing?) other women do whatever they want to do. Just keep away. It is so simple I wonder why it didn't occur to those who raise these questions. That is what I would do if I couldn't watch something and may companions want to see it. I would never spoil their fun, an still less their whole life long. That would be really oppresion.
As to the fact that men are not commanded to reveal their zeenat. Well either they don't have any, or if they have, they are allowed to parade it big way. What can I say? I am all for it. Let's get rolling. And please if some of you guys are going to do so, annouce where you are going to be in public so that women, without singing, of course, or even breathing, can see you, because that is not forbidden, you know, and finally no need to go and spend some dear money at Chipendales.
Please, brothers, and sisters, excuse me if I am being a little bit sarcastic, but, I mean, men should not be tempting me this way. I just, simply, miserably, cannot resist. They should not show their... whatever it is (egos, vanity, naivet?), but at any rate non zeenat (which is much allowed), in a public forum. Really, it is way too much excitement for a poor woman like me who has a very poor control, and something should be done about it, otherwise I am afraid that some sarcasm may slip now and and then. If that happens, I am sorry to say, nobody will be to blame but men themselves.
Salam, dear creatures, sepcially the unforbidden masculine ones
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Peace amuslim, all,
I would also like to draw the attention of the readers to the fact that men are not commanded to hide their "zeenat" !! There is no command addressing men not to reveal their "zeenat" except that which is apparent, unless I am mistaken.
Perhaps because they don't have any confused
And seriously, I understand from "zeenatahunna" is any thing related to women and specific to them, and could be revealed by how they walk or sit. Voice does not meet these critereon
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Now there is another way out if the first solution I proposed seems too radical, men can in fact become qawwamun over their own virtue and keep away from anything they feel will lead them to the wrong path. No need for them to sacrifice their very dear women (they are dear, aren't they?). They can keep away and let their women go anywhere they please, and watch women singers and sportswomen as the please in TV, finally women are not forbidden seeing (or was it hearing?) other women do whatever they want to do. Just keep away. It is so simple I wonder why it didn't occur to those who raise these questions. That is what I would do if I couldn't watch something and may companions want to see it. I would never spoil their fun, an still less their whole life long. That would be really oppresion.
As to the fact that men are not commanded to reveal their zeenat. Well either they don't have any, or if they have, they are allowed to parade it big way. What can I say? I am all for it. Let's get rolling. And please if some of you guys are going to do so, annouce where you are going to be in public so that women, without singing, of course, or even breathing, can see you, because that is not forbidden, you know, and finally no need to go and spend some dear money at Chipendales.
Please, brothers, and sisters, excuse me if I am being a little bit sarcastic, but, I mean, men should not be tempting me this way. I just, simply, miserably, cannot resist. They should not show their... whatever it is (egos, vanity, naivet?), but at any rate non zeenat (which is much allowed), in a public forum. Really, it is way too much excitement for a poor woman like me who has a very poor control, and something should be done about it, otherwise I am afraid that some sarcasm may slip now and and then. If that happens, I am sorry to say, nobody will be to blame but men themselves.
Salam, dear creatures, sepcially the unforbidden masculine ones.
Oh? I forgot! I know I may be getting on people's nerves by now, but I don't want this on my conscience. Well, I know we are all modern and all that, but on the other hand I know that this kind of thing is not everybody's cup of tea either, I mean, when men go out exercising their right to unforbiddenness, just watch out that there are no other men around. I mean, they may be straight, but it is chance and we already know how out of the question is for men to control their urges and you may find yourselves with more than you can handle. Of course, nobody would get pregnant, but still it might represent some psychological strain and fisical inconvenience. Although, I believe that there are support groups that help with this kind of thing if things got that far.
Otherwise, best of luck.Salaam
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Peace Samia, all,
Perhaps because they don't have any confused
Really ! Am I sensing some female chauvinism here ? What about the male chest, abs, etc. ?
I understand that the word "zeenat" is used for females but there has to be a male form of that word in Arabic. Is it "zayaan" or "zayn" ? I looked up Lane's in PRL under the root "zay-ya-nun" and the word "muzayyan" is used for a man. (As a side note, page 445 of LL in PRL under root "zay-ya-nun" is not accessible.)
If The God wanted men to hide their "zayaan"/"zayn" He would have said so clearly.
And seriously, I understand from "zeenatahunna" is any thing related to women and specific to them, and could be revealed by how they walk or sit. Voice does not meet these critereon
The red part in the quote above is subjective opinion, not an objective fact.
If "zeenatahunna" is any thing related to women and specific to them, and could be revealed by how they walk or sit (as per the blue part of the quote above), then the female voice is something related to women and specific to them (as per the pitch, timber, tone, envelope etc.), and can be revealed by how they speak. No one can contest that if a woman wants, she can produce a sexually provocative voice, and that voice would definitely be her hidden "zeenat". Her normal voice used in day to day speech, without being sexually provocative, would be her "zeenat" that she is allowed to reveal to everyone as per 2431, as it is "what is apparent".
As far as all the sarcastic comments in some of the above posts are concerned, they are all addressed by The God's commands to men to dress righteously, lower their gaze, cover their private parts, and not to commit or go near "fawaahish".
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If The God wanted men to hide their "zayaan"/"zayn" He would have said so clearly.
Did God create men? Check.
Do you feel shame at the thought of uncovering certain parts of your body in public? Check.
)
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If The God wanted men to hide their "zayaan"/"zayn" He would have said so clearly.
If God wanted to make singing, by either male or female subjecto to any restriction or include it in any unrelated definition He would have said so clearly.
Tanveer said
The red part in the quote above is subjective opinion, not an objective fact.
Now this is indeed a subjective and SELF SEEKING opinion about somebody else's opinion. Go and call all dictionnaries subjective and just do anything you want to with any word you care, since as it seems, for your mental make up anything goes. And Samia's opinion is NOT subjective, unless according to your mental make up, any woman's opinion is by definition subjective, and any male's objective. At any rate, your opinion is in fact neither subjective nor objective, it is not an opinion at all, it is pure AND WILD speculation for what I think, either subjectively or objectively, self seeking motives, and not a sincere wish to follow the Qur'an, because if this were so you would make your case quite differently.
On the other hand this cuestion has been discussed and you haven't added anything new to the debate, which if you had, it would have been interesting. Why keep insisting as if insistence were going to bring about any change in the nature of its object.
Salaam