Blast from the Past
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Peace all,
Just returning to say that I still do browse through this forum, from time to time. Haven't posted in ages.
But also my post here is to inform of a decision that I am 99% in the process of making.
I'm leaving all religion, all deen. It's not through a lack of belief, as I still do believe in one creator.
I have some issues with the Quran and I can't find a valid, rational, logical answer to those questions.
First issue deals with homos.exuals. I do not agree with punishment for them (from humans).
The Quran states that Allah makes it a sin and should we find them committing this sin then we punish them. I see no justification, as it is an agreement between two people who've made THEIR choice and thus us humans have no right to punish them. If indeed it is a sin then only Allah is in a position to punish.
Which brings me to adultery. If it's cheating, then I can see the justification of punishment. However, if it is punishment for se.xual acts between a couple who aren't married then there is no justification for punishment. Once again it's an agreement between two people, no one elses business.
For this reason I leave religion and it's dogma behind.
Religion must first and foremost (for me) be logical.
I still do believe that people like Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Ahmed had some kind of connection with Allah, that they probably did preach the message of Allah. However the books we have today, I do not believe to be free from corruption (Quran included).
Allah's message, ayats are to be seen in every facet of life. The Quran's purpose was to make it simple and easy to understand for all human kind. However, I do not believe it's a necessity, as Allah's message can be seen just by observing the world, it is after all Allah's universe, his laws that govern.
Peace Brother,
Aren't you falling into that trap of demanding that Deen should conform to our personal likes and dislikes? If you believe in a Creator shouldn't you also believe that He has the right to set the laws and limitations for His creation, even without the consent of His every creature?
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Peace,
First issue deals with homos.exuals. I do not agree with punishment for them (from humans).
The Quran states that Allah makes it a sin and should we find them committing this sin then we punish them. I see no justification, as it is an agreement between two people who've made THEIR choice and thus us humans have no right to punish them. If indeed it is a sin then only Allah is in a position to punish.
Which brings me to adultery. If it's cheating, then I can see the justification of punishment. However, if it is punishment for se.xual acts between a couple who aren't married then there is no justification for punishment. Once again it's an agreement between two people, no one elses business.
You do realize you need 4 witness to enfore any punishments right?
Tell me in which situations people have 4 witnesses.
Imran.
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Which brings me to adultery. If it's cheating, then I can see the justification of punishment. However, if it is punishment for se.xual acts between a couple who aren't married then there is no justification for punishment. Once again it's an agreement between two people, no one elses business.
Didn't I discuss this with you previously?
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Peace All,
Wakas we did discuss this before, the conclusion, I think, we came to was defining what adultery was. I'd have to check up on our past post.
Aren't you falling into that trap of demanding that Deen should conform to our personal likes and dislikes? If you believe in a Creator shouldn't you also believe that He has the right to set the laws and limitations for His creation, even without the consent of His every creature?
Who's demanding??? I'm giving my opinion of what I feel is right and wrong, through my observance of the world. If you feel that I'm falling into the trap of demanding that Deem should conform to my personal likes, then may I ask you why have you rejected Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shaoism, Shamanism, etc. Because they don't confirm to your likes and dislikes?
You do realize you need 4 witness to enfore any punishments right?
Tell me in which situations people have 4 witnesses.
That's a cheap excuse. Let's say it does happen, it may be a 1 in a 10000000000000000000000 chance, but there is still a chance of it happening.
Alternatively people see two people together who are quite sensual with each other, and the pair dissappear behind closed doors. The couple are accused, and the couple admit that they have had relations with each other, then what right do people have to punish this couple?
None, what-so-ever.
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Who's demanding??? I'm giving my opinion of what I feel is right and wrong, through my observance of the world. If you feel that I'm falling into the trap of demanding that Deem should conform to my personal likes, then may I ask you why have you rejected Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shaoism, Shamanism, etc. Because they don't confirm to your likes and dislikes?
Peace
I left Christianity because I realised, after reding the Quran that it wasn't the religion that God had enjoined upon us, through the ages, but a man made corruption. pr
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I'm leaving all religion, all deen. It's not through a lack of belief, as I still do believe in one creator.
Nothing to be ashamed of, this was the same stance taken by Prophet Abraham.
I have some issues with the Quran and I can't find a valid, rational, logical answer to those questions.
First issue deals with homos.exuals. I do not agree with punishment for them (from humans).
The Quran states that Allah makes it a sin and should we find them committing this sin then we punish them. I see no justification, as it is an agreement between two people who've made THEIR choice and thus us humans have no right to punish them. If indeed it is a sin then only Allah is in a position to punish.
Read my posts on this topic, My reading of the quran led me to a different conclusion.
Which brings me to adultery. If it's cheating, then I can see the justification of punishment. However, if it is punishment for se.xual acts between a couple who aren't married then there is no justification for punishment. Once again it's an agreement between two people, no one elses business.
Marriage is encouraged to prevent cheating. Again this topic has been dealt with extensively. Most co-habiting couples
would be considered married according to the Quran.May God increase our knowlegde.
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That's a cheap excuse. Let's say it does happen, it may be a 1 in a 10000000000000000000000 chance, but there is still a chance of it happening.
The punishment is for public sex and pornography. You are making an emotional choice rather than a logical one.
I will say what Zenje said
Peace be with you esimsek,
May you find happiness wherever you go. And you're always welcome here either way.
peace
Peace Burhan,
Most co-habiting couples
would be considered married according to the Quran.Interesting, what's your proof? Perhaps you can link me to a thread where you discussed this.
Imran.
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Interesting, what's your proof? Perhaps you can link me to a thread where you discussed this.
Nikkah in the Quran is not a piece of paper or what society or culture deem acceptable, it's the reality on the ground that matters.
Most co-habitting couples satisfy the following requirements
- Consent of both people.
- Consent of both parents.
- A gift from the man to the women
- Intention and promise of comittment.
- Several witness who can testify to the relationship.
- Sex which consumates the marriage.
- No sex outside the relationship.
As long they follow the rules for seperation I think they have done nothing wrong.
All that remains is a priest and lawyer .... well I found nothing in the Quran that mandates their involvement.
Marriage is a matter strictly between two people.
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Nikkah in the Quran is not a piece of paper or what society or culture deem acceptable, it's the reality on the ground that matters.
Most co-habitting couples satisfy the following requirements
- Consent of both people.
- Consent of both parents.
- A gift from the man to the women
- Intention and promise of comittment.
- Several witness who can testify to the relationship.
- Sex which consumates the marriage.
- No sex outside the relationship.
As long they follow the rules for seperation I think they have done nothing wrong.
All that remains is a priest and lawyer .... well I found nothing in the Quran that mandates their involvement.
Marriage is a matter strictly between two people.
Hi burhan! Can you provide us the verse which requires co-habiting couples to have parental consent and the intention and promise of commitment? Thanks.
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Hello there,
I found this site as a result of trying to find anyone on the internet that focused on beleiving in one God. This was as a result of my great spiritual awakening.
I generally do agree with eisimsek100.
Here is my blog for anyone interested http//naturalhumandesign.blogspot.com/
I do hope to post quite a few more details about my experiences in the future.
It would be nice to hear about your refelctions on my blog.
