Face cover: God's only flaw?
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I do believe in freedom of expression but I also think that women who believe that ninja outfit liberates them have serious issues. It is just the extreme opposite.
Because it's all about conditioning. They have been conditioned, generations after generations, to like the hijab etc... Remember the brain believes whatever you want it to believe. That's why salat is so important, so we are conditioned in a positive manner.
At the same time, I am married to a Caucasian, and she loves the hijab (but not any of the head to toe crap). It helps her feel modest etc... Personally, I don't like the hijab. I think it's demeaning, but it's her choice.
Funny, she was called a 'terrorist' in Wal-mart by some old lady and she still wears it.There's nothing wrong in covering the head. There's something very wrong in saying that The God ordered it.
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peace all,
Some women find the headscarf / face veil (niqab) / burqa (full veil) liberating and I can see why (not saying I agree, just saying I can understand why some do). So to imply that there is something wrong with these women because they find it liberating does not give an honest picture in my opinion.
Also, from my experience of the forum, there seems to be a prevalent myth that the head cover is not in AQ. That is not entirely accurate. It would be more correct to say that there is no 100% clear commandment that women must wear the head cover, but a reasonable case can be made for it using AQ
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/khimar.htmPlease note reasonable does not equate to solid/proven/etc.
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peace all,
Some women find the headscarf / face veil (niqab) / burqa (full veil) liberating and I can see why (not saying I agree, just saying I can understand why some do). So to imply that there is something wrong with these women because they find it liberating does not give an honest picture in my opinion.
Also, from my experience of the forum, there seems to be a prevalent myth that the head cover is not in AQ. That is not entirely accurate. It would be more correct to say that there is no 100% clear commandment that women must wear the head cover, but a reasonable case can be made for it using AQ
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/khimar.htmPlease note reasonable does not equate to solid/proven/etc.
Peace,
The topic reminds me the exegesis on Q2431 (walyadribna bikhumurihinna AAala juyoobihinna) penned by Christopher Luxenberg.
Anyway, from the context of the verse, the focus lies on the covering of the zeenatahunna/decoration/beauty. And the defination of the zeenatahunna is well explained towards the end of the verse
wala yadribna bi-arjulihinna liyuAAlama ma yukhfeena min zeenatihinna
and they (F) do not set apart with their (F) legs to be known what they (F) hide from their decoration/beautyBy looking at the context of the verse, clearly zeenatahunna here refers to furoojahunna/genital parts between their legs.
So, there's no head covering.
Peace.
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Some one said the following on another forum
If you had read the research thoroughly, you would have seen that the term Jilbaab was linguistically used by the earliest disciples of the Prophet Muhammad ('alayhis salaam) to denote a garment larger than the khimaar that covered the face. This was the view of the greatest mufassir and companion Abdullah Ibn 'Abbas, 'Abidah As-Salmaani - the avid student of Imam 'Ali ibn Abi Taalib, as well as many others. Simply read the tafsir presented within the links given by bluey.
Fact You can not disprove that the term Jilbab, in the tongue of the 'arabs, was a garment that covered the face.
Fact You can not disprove that the Sahabiyyat, from Asmaa, 'Aa'ishah, etc etc covered their faces in front of the ajnabi man.
Do we say NIQAAB is fardh? Absolutely not! We say that niqaab is simply a means of attaining Jilbaab. Jilbaab is the garment that covers the entire body in the original and pure language of the 'arabs, as professed by Ibn 'Abbas and other companions and taabi'in.
Disagree as you will, but the facts stand.
Jazaakum Allahu Khairan
Can some one proficient in the classical arabic language, comment on this please? Thoughts from Sr. Samia would be appreciated.
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Peace,
Some women find the headscarf / face veil (niqab) / burqa (full veil) liberating and I can see why (not saying I agree, just saying I can understand why some do). So to imply that there is something wrong with these women because they find it liberating does not give an honest picture in my opinion.
Also, from my experience of the forum, there seems to be a prevalent myth that the head cover is not in AQ. That is not entirely accurate. It would be more correct to say that there is no 100% clear commandment that women must wear the head cover, but a reasonable case can be made for it using AQ
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/khimar.htm
Please note reasonable does not equate to solid/proven/etc.Very glad to hear a voice of reason on this thread! Well said..
peace
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At the same time, I am married to a Caucasian, and she loves the hijab (but not any of the head to toe crap). It helps her feel modest etc... Personally, I don't like the hijab. I think it's demeaning, but it's her choice.
Funny, she was called a 'terrorist' in Wal-mart by some old lady and she still wears it.I like the jilbab/head cover too because I think women look nice in it but Im only against 'ninja outfit'.
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Peace,
Well, there are a lot to comment about the hijjab but I resist this time.
Notes I have both wear the hijjab many years and then lay it off.
But worth to mention and often forgotten is that the best garment is the garment of righteousness.
Maria
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Wadaraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena amanoo imraata firAAawna ith qalat rabbi ibni lee AAindaka baytan fee aljannati wanajjinee min firAAawna waAAamalihi wanajjinee mina alqawmi alththalimeena
6611 And Allah sets forth, as an example to those who believe the wife of Pharaoh Behold she said "O my Lord! Build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong";
There?s that DA-RA-BA word once again and below perhaps the nice lady?s dress code...
http//www.tiferet.co.il/ladies.jpg
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I don't get it, is the picture showing the lady making the plea to Allah, or those that do wrong that she is asking not to be like? o hmm
Wadaraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena amanoo imraata firAAawna ith qalat rabbi ibni lee AAindaka baytan fee aljannati wanajjinee min firAAawna waAAamalihi wanajjinee mina alqawmi alththalimeena
6611 And Allah sets forth, as an example to those who believe the wife of Pharaoh Behold she said "O my Lord! Build for me, in nearness to Thee, a mansion in the Garden, and save me from Pharaoh and his doings, and save me from those that do wrong";
There?s that DA-RA-BA word once again and below perhaps the nice lady?s dress code...
http//www.tiferet.co.il/ladies.jpg
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I do believe in freedom of expression but I also think that women who believe that ninja outfit liberates them have serious issues. It is just the extreme opposite.
I like wearing the headscarf since I converted.. maybe I just enjoy dressing up. Dressing ninjah in the West is a big no no for me - it doesn't liberate you here it gets in the way - people don't bother you here in the street. Ironically I've found in muslim countries (even Egypt) its almost essential if you want to be left alone by the local men...
My ex husband decided that I should start believing in Niqab (not to wear it just believe I was sinning for not wearing it) his justification for niqab was the 'khimar' verse. He said when Allah says in Quran for women to draw their cloaks around their chests it means to draw them over the head to cover everything showing only the eyes (to see out of) and now with modern fabrics the eyes don't even have to be seen whatever crazy or what?... sheesh
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I don't get it, is the picture showing the lady making the plea to Allah, or those that do wrong that she is asking not to be like? o hmm
Neither ? the picture is only an example of ancient Egyptian women?s dress style.
Do you perceive anything wrong with it?
Or should they have adopted the style of Arabian women a few thousand years later?
http//www.arab2.com/arab-traditional-dress/images/saudi-palestine.gif
Above was the style in the Middle East to protect against sand winds and women wore head coverings which they pulled the ends back behind the neck to expose dresses styled with plunging necklines and verses advised instead to pull the ends forward and cover their cleavage area and to wear outer clothes over thin house garments when going outside so they won?t be bothered by those behaving like today's construction workers.
A comment from one of the girls in my family about a fashion show she modeled in with her sister who designed the dresses?
?These so called true followers bomb mosques with women and children. Oh yes they are definitely going to heaven meanwhile if I wear a pretty summer dress, I?m going to HELL??
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stooped to eliminate the very face of women which Allah INTENTFULLY designed to be left uncovered at all times, just like the male counterpart.
uncovered at all times?
that's a little much, seeing as if god had intended us to never cover our faces he would never have created the canadian winter P
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Salaams,
Women should adopt the style of dress that Allah tells them to, if they have faith in following the guidance that Allah gives. If so, they would prefer what Allah gives over what they desire themselves. So they would follow it to the best of their understanding at any given time. In the Jewish and Christian scriptures as well as the muslim scriptures, there has always been something to describe the dress code of women to distinguish the believing women from the women population in general. I don't know why Allah likes to single out how women dress, I just recognize that He does. There are no ayaat in Al Quran, for whatever reason that Allah choose, that specify that mean should wear jilbab or khimar, or similiar. Allahu Alim.
Human beings, including believers fail to follow a lot of the guidance that Allah gives to us. Whatever one considers the dress code from Allah in Al Quran, no one can say that not adhering to it will cause one to go to Hellfire. One can only say that not adhering to it is disobedience, and Allah forgives a lot of disobedience. We are all disobedient in some way. So advising one of what Allah says to do is only so that someone will know, then it is up to them to obey or not; not for the one giving the message to condemn them to hellfire. Allah is the One who weighs on the Day of Judgement, and who determines what is forgiven or not forgiven.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
Neither ? the picture is only an example of ancient Egyptian women?s dress style.
Do you perceive anything wrong with it?
Or should they have adopted the style of Arabian women a few thousand years later?
http//www.arab2.com/arab-traditional-dress/images/saudi-palestine.gif
Above was the style in the Middle East to protect against sand winds and women wore head coverings which they pulled the ends back behind the neck to expose dresses styled with plunging necklines and verses advised instead to pull the ends forward and cover their cleavage area and to wear outer clothes over thin house garments when going outside so they won?t be bothered by those behaving like today's construction workers.
A comment from one of the girls in my family about a fashion show she modeled in with her sister who designed the dresses?
?These so called true followers bomb mosques with women and children. Oh yes they are definitely going to heaven meanwhile if I wear a pretty summer dress, I?m going to HELL??
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Some one said the following on another forum
Can some one proficient in the classical arabic language, comment on this please? Thoughts from Sr. Samia would be appreciated.
This is not a linguistic comment, although I never heard of a "jilbaab" that covers the head. The word, and the garment, are still widely used in the Arab world (save north Africa) , which brings me to the "jilbaab" that covers the head, and maybe the face, with a hood attached to it. They do not call it "jilbaab" but "kaftaan".
My non-linguistic comment is, if the jilbaab was some garment that covers the head, what would be the point of khumur spread over it?
As for classical dictionaries, only lisaanul3arab mentions jilbaab as garment, and it has many different descriptions for it...According to it, "some" say it covers the head, some say it is an "overall,, or a khimar or something else. Nothing specific and not helping at all.
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Salam,
I find the Jilbab argument to be quite lame since the verse in question clearly speaks about covering the breasts - no head or eye or hair or any other invented nonsence.
The better argument I have seen is the one that invokes sura 33 which claims that the prophet
s wives being ordered to speak to men from behind a veil/hijaab is a role model for all women - of course, this argument misses the remaining verses which speak of the prophets wives as being "unlike" any other women and that different laws apply to them (such as being forbidden to remarry).
