What Edip Is Trying To Tell Us?
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Peace,
No, I have read you and I like you that is why I am here and discussing you; but at the same time I want to be clarified from a person who has increasing followers, I want to know about his thoughts regarding Islam, see it is not only me who has this observations, Edip and many others have the same observations; and if you cleared them up, at least I can have a clear picture of a person who is trying hard for Islam.
What clarifications are you looking for? Be specific and I will try my best to answer.
One last Question if you don't mind
Do you ever left Islam and became an atheist? What made you leave Islam? and why were you back to Islam with new energy, because during your leaving of Islam, you had some contacts with the people who hate Islam and then suddenly you were back in Islam this casts some doubts on your credibility?
The source for above is Walid Shoebat.
No. Since I have found the path of God Alone I have never left it nor would I trade this path for any other - You Alone we serve and You Alone we seek for help!
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Peace.
Perhaps the question the person was trying to ask Layth was when he left, "sunnism" did he ever become an atheist or any other religion before he entered into the Quran Alone (islam).
Or..was there a period of time between the time Layth left Sunnism and entered into the Quran alone stance (islam)?
I would also be interested in knowing what people did Layth associate with that this brother is claiming. Does he have the actual source that we could see to verify this information or invalidate it.
Apprecaite it.
Sakina
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No, I have read you and I like you that is why I am here and discussing you; but at the same time I want to be clarified from a person who has increasing followers,
Raj-ah,
Who has increasing (numbers of) followers? I'm sorry, but is there a leader with followers here? I thought people here were trying to think for themselves, and not act as obedient desciples to someone. I hope people here try to follow guidance, sense, goodness and their hearts in pursuit of truth, not some human authority. -
Raj-ah,
Who has increasing (numbers of) followers? I'm sorry, but is there a leader with followers here? I thought people here were trying to think for themselves, and not act as obedient desciples to someone. I hope people here try to follow guidance, sense, goodness and their hearts in pursuit of truth, not some human authority.I am the real Layth, the other Layth is a decoy.
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I am the real Layth, the other Layth is a decoy.
I am not going to discuss this veil issue with you. You will not put it on my head and I will not lift it off your eyes, so why bother?
End of story.http//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/gif%20files/LOL_Hair.gifhttp//i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/nabpeace/gif%20files/lmfao.gif
peace
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Samia
How can be their difference of understanding in Quran in this particular verse, unless and until you deliberately want to change it.The word used for 'head covering' in this ayat is 'Khumr'. In Arabic this word is specifically and only used for the head covering cloth, you should now this better then me. If God did not mean to direct towards the observance of head covering, usage of such a word seems unnecessary and a cause for confusion, charateristics that the word of God certainly do not possess.
The fact that this word is used and no other is in itself a pointer towards head covering.rotfl rotfl rotfl
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Layth
What clarifications are you looking for? Be specific and I will try my best to answer.
Dear may be my english is causing some confusions and you are not getting my point, Ok let me try once again.
Edip has accused Kamal Nawash and his organization for having some hidden motives and which are against Islam, After studying and knowing about Kamal Nawash I see many similarities between your organization and his, for example changing the meaning of Quran or rather translating english words for arabic words which are according to moderen day scenario because you live in society which does not accept old translation of Quran; forgetting that Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. Kamal is highlighted by the westeren media favourably and so is your orgnizaition. Edip was once traditionalist Muslim and had no say in westeren world but now the world has changed for him after and that also seems true for some old Saudi.His and I guess your combined effort of translating Quran in a new way has gained praise from Irshad Menji and Amina Wadud , this says it all.
In quest for truth you seem to be going to far away, as is our friend Ayman; who has changed the Kaaba without Allah's consent. In order to please Jews and Christians and others we are going so far away from the original, we have forget what Allah said in Quran
Quran
O you who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressorsDespite this all I still like you, You have brought forward some very excellent points and provided Muslims with such a Platform where one can discuss what, in other Muslims forums is neverthought of.
Layth
No. Since I have found the path of God Alone I have never left it nor would I trade this path for any other - You Alone we serve and You Alone we seek for help!
How did you find the path of God Alone, after settling in USA? Why most of the well wishers of Islam are discarded in their own countries, they even have to hide their identities and they are residing in Europe and USA? this is strange very strange
Edip, You, Kamal, Irshad, Rushdie, Tasleema a long list, i am just curious, how can I differentiate you from the rest I REALLY WANT TO. -
In quest for truth you seem to be going to far away, as is our friend Ayman; who has changed the Kaaba without Allah's consent. In order to please Jews and Christians and others we are going so far away from the original, we have forget what Allah said in Quran
Quran
O you who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressorsSalaam,
The arguments that Ayman puts forward with the archeological evidence regarding the Kaaba are convincing enough but we need to do more research.
From the Qur?an I understand that the ?sanctuary? fits with Jerusalem, but for Jews this is very bad news, as they justify their right to the Dome of the rock on the basis that it is not mentioned in the Quran. If anything Jews and Christians are certainly not happy that we consider the DOR as our Kaaba.
One thing that bothers me a lot is why Allah (swt) would have allowed the corrupt Saudis to be the custodians of the Kaaba and a good portion of what many spend on Hajj goes to US today to pay back loans, taken by the Saudis to protect them from Sadaam Husain during the first Gulf war.
United states along with the Saudi Royals make sure that any war offensive starts after the tourist season(hajj) so they have their funds secured from the revenue received by the haji tourists. As you can see fresh news of skirmishes with Iran are now hyped up, so always look for a sign of war after the hajj.peace
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Salam,
Dear may be my english is causing some confusions and you are not getting my point, Ok let me try once again.
Edip has accused Kamal Nawash and his organization for having some hidden motives and which are against Islam, After studying and knowing about Kamal Nawash I see many similarities between your organization and his, for example changing the meaning of Quran or rather translating english words for arabic words which are according to moderen day scenario because you live in society which does not accept old translation of Quran; forgetting that Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. Kamal is highlighted by the westeren media favourably and so is your orgnizaition. Edip was once traditionalist Muslim and had no say in westeren world but now the world has changed for him after and that also seems true for some old Saudi.Your assumptions are clearly wrong. The translation of the Quran I support renders the words as they are while taking into account the subject and supporting verses - it is a matter of accuracy and never about changing words from their meaning to fit preconcieved notions or agendas outside of God`s teachings. Now, if such translation is at odds with the set understanding of the masses or what has been transmitted by their scholars - then that is not my concern nor a subject I care about.
His and I guess your combined effort of translating Quran in a new way has gained praise from Irshad Menji and Amina Wadud , this says it all.
It does not say it all. Would you rather Edip or I turn away those who might be seeking the path of God? The Quran instructs us not to turn away those that may seek God`s grace (652, 801-4) eventhough on the surface they may not appear to be likely candidates.
In quest for truth you seem to be going to far away, as is our friend Ayman; who has changed the Kaaba without Allah's consent. In order to please Jews and Christians and others we are going so far away from the original, we have forget what Allah said in Quran
Please explain to me how the Jews or Christians would be pleased that we call for Jerusalem to be the heart of the pilgrimage? Would that support their case for ownership of Jerusalem and Palestine or would that work against them? Also, explain to me how the Jews and Christians would be pleased that we claim Islam to be a just and logical system which outshines any other system on Earth vs. the current sunni and shia fanatics who amputate hands, veil women, kill apostates, make the prophet into a sex maniac, avoid technology, live in superstition and hate, and above all have no concept of sence or justice!
Which do you think the Jews or Christians would hate more? The ones who hold to the Quran, or the ones who have abondoned it?
How did you find the path of God Alone, after settling in USA? Why most of the well wishers of Islam are discarded in their own countries, they even have to hide their identities and they are residing in Europe and USA? this is strange very strange
Edip, You, Kamal, Irshad, Rushdie, Tasleema a long list, i am just curious, how can I differentiate you from the rest I REALLY WANT TO.I live in the Middle East - not US. Secondly, I found the path of God alone by the grace of God - not by the location I was in! If I am not mistaken, Edip found the path when he was in a jail in Turkey? I found the path when I was working abroad for a short stint. God finds and guides those who seek Him, and I have, as long as I can remember, sought Him (may He be glorified forever).
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Layth
Your assumptions are clearly wrong. The translation of the Quran I support renders the words as they are while taking into account the subject and supporting verses - it is a matter of accuracy and never about changing words from their meaning to fit preconcieved notions or agendas outside of God`s teachings
Some of my friends are studying this translation in detail and shortly we will point out where the meanings of words have been changed to fit preconcieved notions offcourse I am sure not deliberatley.
But for as of now what about the usage of the word "Progressive" in your translation ? Was it by Mistake or Deliberately added?Layth
It does not say it all. Would you rather Edip or I turn away those who might be seeking the path of God? The Quran instructs us not to turn away those that may seek God`s grace (652, 801-4) eventhough on the surface they may not appear to be likely candidates
.No sir, it is not about turning any one away from path of God. What I am saying is that we all Know about Irshad Menji and Amina Wadud and if the people of their alike are happy with what you have presented then this tells the story.
Layth
Please explain to me how the Jews or Christians would be pleased that we call for Jerusalem to be the heart of the pilgrimage? Would that support their case for ownership of Jerusalem and Palestine or would that work against them? Also, explain to me how the Jews and Christians would be pleased that we claim Islam to be a just and logical system which outshines any other system on Earth vs. the current sunni and shia fanatics who amputate hands, veil women, kill apostates, make the prophet into a sex maniac, avoid technology, live in superstition and hate, and above all have no concept of sence or justice!
Which do you think the Jews or Christians would hate more? The ones who hold to the Quran, or the ones who have abondoned it?
O you who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors
I am just going to explain it in the following post.
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But for as of now what about the usage of the word "Progressive" in your translation ? Was it by Mistake or Deliberately added?
Progress, horrible word. Still disgusting to traditionalists after 1000 years of stagnation...
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Quran
"And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted means of transportation. They will come from the farthest locations."This is a prophecy and it only is true in Makkah which is in saudi Arabia.
"The Hajj Time", there is no Hajj time in Jerusalem, in another words no one calls us to do Hajj in Juresalem.
Mecca is the only place where People come for HAJJ from all over the world from farthest places in an organized manner, Mecca is the only place where this practice is carried out for last 1500 years every year without any break.
No other place in the world is there we people go for Hajj or are called for Hajj.
Hajj shall be observed in the specified months. Whoever sets out to observe Hajj shall refrain from sexual intercourse, misconduct, and arguments throughout Hajj. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof. As you prepare your provisions for the journey, the best provision is righteousness. You shall observe Me, O you who possess intelligence.Only in Mecca people go for Hajj in specific months, and refrain from Sexual intercourse and misconduct. Where else do people go for Hajj in specified months refraining from Sex etc.?
You shall observe the complete rites of Hajj and
Umrah for GOD. If you are prevented, you shall send an offering, and do not resume cutting your hair until your offering has reached its destination. If you are ill, or suffering a head injury, you shall expiate by fasting, or giving to charity, or some other form of worship. During the normal Hajj, if you break the state of Ihraam betweenUmrah and Hajj, you shall expiate by offering an animal sacrifice. If you cannot afford it, you shall fast three days during Hajj and seven when you return home - this completes ten - provided you do not live at the Sacred Masjid. You shall observe GOD, and know that GOD is strict in enforcing retributionWhere else do people stop cutting their hairs until sacrifice of the animal is done? Where else do people during HAjj offer Kafara in the shape of Fasting during HAjj??
You commit no error by seeking provisions from your Lord by trading. When you file from `Arafaat, you shall commemorate GOD at the Sacred Location. You shall commemorate Him for guiding you; before this, you had gone astray.
Where else do in the world we see trading during Hajj season, and the place Arafat?
If all these things mentioned in Quran combined happen some where else other then Mecca, Then is the case of those who impressed by Jewish and Christian missionaries propoganda say that Kaaba is not the place Abraham was assigned to purify.
Now why the Jews and Christians will not be happy if Muslims disobey Allah's orders in Quran?
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OPf
Progress, horrible word. Still disgusting to traditionalists after 1000 years of stagnation...
dig hard but the fact is what arabic word they translated as "Progressive"?
farida
the arguments that Ayman puts forward with the archeological evidence regarding the Kaaba are convincing enough but we need to do more research.
No, they are not convincing at all!
Please read "The Linguistic Footprints of Lehi ? 2002
by Bruce A. Santucci
and also visit the site Islamic awareness. -
Salam,
Quran
"And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted means of transportation. They will come from the farthest locations."This is a prophecy and it only is true in Makkah which is in saudi Arabia.
"The Hajj Time", there is no Hajj time in Jerusalem, in another words no one calls us to do Hajj in Juresalem.
Mecca is the only place where People come for HAJJ from all over the world from farthest places in an organized manner, Mecca is the only place where this practice is carried out for last 1500 years every year without any break.
No other place in the world is there we people go for Hajj or are called for Hajj.That is your reason for accepting Mecca?
Abraham called to the Hajj over 4,000 years ago and people came to Bakka.
You are claiming that we should ignore such facts and look at what the majority of so called muslims have been doing for the past 1,400 year?
Here is what God tells us about the majority
And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.(Qur?an 6116)And most of them will not believe in God except while setting-up partners.(12106)I recommend you examine this issue based on the facts of the Quran. Otherwise, if you insist to look to what the others are doing/saying, then you can`t blame anyone but yourself if you are misguided by their teachings.
Only in Mecca people go for Hajj in specific months, and refrain from Sexual intercourse and misconduct. Where else do people go for Hajj in specified months refraining from Sex etc.?
Actually, they don`t. They perform their Hajj in a specific month whereas as you rightly pointed out, the Quran says monthS
As for Arafaat and the other items (Safa and Marwa) you can read what I have written on the subject at detail and decide which location fits the Quran`s description (Mecca or Jerusalem).
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OPf
dig hard but the fact is what arabic word they translated as "Progressive"?OK, you do have a point there ;D
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OPf dig hard but the fact is what arabic word they translated as "Progressive"?
It was in my earlier draft for verse 665, where I suggested several meanings for the word eBKaR early risers, frontrunners, or progressive. But in my later revision, I deleted the word progressive. Nevertheless, the word PROGRESS is used as a verbal description for muslims in 7437
"For any among you who wishes to progress or regress." (7437).
As for your other allegations, you appear to rely on conspiracy theories and ready to put me in one of your Con-Boxes without even veryfing the allegations. For instance, I do not necessarily agree with all the ideas of those who endorsed the Reformist Translation of the Quran, nor their endorsement of the translation means that they agree with every translation and arguments in it. Furthermore, the endorsers may not also agree with each other. For instance, Kassim Ahmad of Malesia is just on the opposite side of Manji, politically. (I was surprized that you did not mention his name and the name of others, such as Caner Taslaman, Aisha Musa, etc.) If you do not live in the "Black or White" world of fanatics you wil understand the subbtleties I mentioned above.
Regardless, I will be glad to receive your criticism since it will
- Help you to learn something that you did not know before.
- Help us learn something that we did not know before.
- Help us to improve the Quran a Reformist Translation for its next prints.
- ...
Peace,
Edip -
Layth
That is your reason for accepting Mecca?
Abraham called to the Hajj over 4,000 years ago and people came to Bakka.
You are claiming that we should ignore such facts and look at what the majority of so called muslims have been doing for the past 1,400 year?
Here is what God tells us about the majority
And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.(Qur?an 6116)
And most of them will not believe in God except while setting-up partners.(12106)
I recommend you examine this issue based on the facts of the Quran. Otherwise, if you insist to look to what the others are doing/saying, then you can`t blame anyone but yourself if you are misguided by their teachings.This is very important issue, and I surely want to discuss it with you because this realy affects one's faith.
My reasons for accepting Makkah as Bakkah are following based on Quran- "And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage. They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted means of transportation. They will come from the farthest locations."
These are words of Allah which were revealed to us through an "Arab" in "Arabic" language 1400 years ago
right? Since these words were revealed there is no single valid "PROOF" repeat single "VALID" proof that People from farthest places in organized manner ever went to any other place for HAJJ.
I have faith in the words of Allah, We can see it with our eyes and it has been seen since the time of "Arab" prophet that people are going to Makkah for Hajj and if they are not going to the correct place as you assume then it means the words of Allah are not true for last 1400 years or so.- Please read these Ayats very carefully once again as you have based your arguments on this particular Ayat.
Say, "GOD has proclaimed the truth You shall follow Abraham's religion - monotheism. He never was an idolater."
The most important shrine established for the people is the one in Becca; a blessed beacon for all the people.
In it are clear signs the station of Abraham. Anyone who enters it shall be granted safe passage. The people owe it to GOD that they shall observe Hajj to this shrine, when they can afford it. As for those who disbelieve, GOD does not need anyone.
Say, "O followers of the scripture, why do you reject these revelations of GOD, when GOD is witnessing everything you do?"
Say, "O followers of the scripture, why do you repel from the path of GOD those who wish to believe, and seek to distort it, even though you are witnesses?" GOD is never unaware of anything you do.
O you who believe, if you obey some of those who received the scripture, they will revert you, after having believed, into disbelievers.Now dear Layth; If Bakkah is in Jerusalem the Jews of the time would have been very happy and at once would have accepted the Ayats revealed, BUT after telling them (Jews & Christians) regarding Abraham and the location of the sanctuary ALLAH says
Say, "O followers of the scripture, why do you reject these revelations of GOD, when GOD is witnessing everything you do?"
It clearly means that Jews and Christians did not agreed with what Is mentioned in previous verses, so after analysing these verses we can clearly tell that Kaaba is not in Jerusalem other wise Jews and Christians would have not rejected but rejoiced.
But they have a time to rejoice now because we are reforming Islam we are reforming the Word of Allah, but Allah clearly saysO you who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors
Waiting for your Input.
