What Edip Is Trying To Tell Us?
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He had many rolls to perform
-Reading the book to the people
-Teaching the book to the people
-teaching the Hikmah
-purifying the souls
-making decisions among the people
Al-Quran clearly states3321
(3321) There was indeed the best model for you in the Messenger of Allah, *34 for every such person who looks forward to Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much.4328 This example (of Abraham) was rendered an everlasting lesson for subsequent generations; perhaps they redeem their souls.
16.120. Abraham was indeed a model, devoutly obedient to God, (and) true in Faith, and he joined not gods with God.
So Abraham was also a secular federalist?
When the koran say
6.123. So We have taught thee the inspired (Message), "Follow the ways of Abraham the True in Faith, and he joined not gods with God."
How do we follow his way, by applying a secular federalist state? Can we also follow Jesus's way? And what kind of state was Jesus's way? A secular federalist one?
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4328 This example (of Abraham) was rendered an everlasting lesson for subsequent generations; perhaps they redeem their souls.
16.120. Abraham was indeed a model, devoutly obedient to God, (and) true in Faith, and he joined not gods with God.
So Abraham was also a secular federalist?
When the koran say
6.123. So We have taught thee the inspired (Message), "Follow the ways of Abraham the True in Faith, and he joined not gods with God."
How do we follow his way, by applying a secular federalist state? Can we also follow Jesus's way? And what kind of state was Jesus's way? A secular federalist one?
Common sense
Follow the latest edition of all these examples as you follow latest research or latest edition of any book.
Regards -
The latest research was 1,400 years ago! hypno
Yes my dear brother
1400 yrs ago a personality came into the world for which Prophet Abraham PBUH especially prayed2129
Is this not something very glorious that Prophet Abraham is praying for that great Prophet PBUH.
The second reason through this great Prophet PBUH ,Islam the greatest boon of God on the human being was completed.
Third reason is Allah Himself declared
813
008.013
YUSUFALI This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.
PICKTHAL That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment.
SHAKIR This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Messenger; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Messenger-- then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).It is this Prophet PBUH about Allah is declaring a decree by "swearing"
465
(465) But no, by your Lord, they cannot become true be-lievers until they seek your arbitration in all matters on which they disagree among themselves, and then find not the least vexation in their hearts over what you have decided, and accept it in willing submission -
Yes my dear brother
1400 yrs ago a personality came into the world for which Prophet Abraham PBUH especially prayed2129
Is this not something very glorious that Prophet Abraham is praying for that great Prophet PBUH.
The second reason through this great Prophet PBUH ,Islam the greatest boon of God on the human being was completed.
Third reason is Allah Himself declared
813
008.013
YUSUFALI This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.
PICKTHAL That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment.
SHAKIR This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Messenger; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Messenger-- then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).It is this Prophet PBUH about Allah is declaring a decree by "swearing"
465
(465) But no, by your Lord, they cannot become true be-lievers until they seek your arbitration in all matters on which they disagree among themselves, and then find not the least vexation in their hearts over what you have decided, and accept it in willing submissionThank you, rligion not a federal secular state or a monarchy or a theocracy.
4.59. O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination
Obeying authority is what everybody should do. Whether in a job, a country or a community. So why should people not obey the prophet when he is in charge of their community. However where is this and where is secular federalism?
We sent Noah to his people "You shall warn your people before a painful retribution afflicts them."
He said, "O my people, I am a manifest warner to you.
"To alert you that you shall worship GOD, reverence Him, and obey me
26.107. "I am to you an apostle worthy of all trust
26.108. "So fear Allah, and obey me.
26.109. "No reward do I ask of you for it my reward is only from the Lord of the Worlds
You take specifics from Muhammad's life and make sweeping theories.
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Thank you, rligion not a federal secular state or a monarchy or a theocracy.
4.59. O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day That is best, and most suitable for final determination
Absolutely True
Allah and His Messenger are final AUTHORITY -
Absolutely True
Allah and His Messenger are final AUTHORITYGod alone is final authority.
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Absolutely True
Allah and His Messenger are final AUTHORITYI don't see the point? So lets say me and someone got on a car accident and had a dispute about who is at fault. What do we do? Refer it to Allah and His messenger? If we had a contract that we had a dispute in, what do we do? Refer it to Allah and His messenger? You sound like the Islamist. And how do we today refer things to the messenger? How do we communicate with him? How do we know what his reply?
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I don't see the point? So lets say me and someone got on a car accident and had a dispute about who is at fault. What do we do? Refer it to Allah and His messenger? If we had a contract that we had a dispute in, what do we do? Refer it to Allah and His messenger? You sound like the Islamist. And how do we today refer things to the messenger? How do we communicate with him? How do we know what his reply?
Through the authentic hadeeth, PBUH.
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Through the authentic hadeeth, PBUH.
So what do we do if Allah is saying one thing and the messenger is saying something else? Who do we follow? Or what do we do if the messenger said something that Allah never said? How do we follow both Allah and his messener then? So there must be consistency and agreement in what both say for us to follow them both. Since we can't follow one and not the other. Now I ask you is the "authentic" hadith telling us what the Koran is telling us? If so then Sunnis who follow those authentic hadith should be following the same Islam like the Koranist do. Yet we know their understanding of Islam is very different. In fact Sunnis do not even regognize the Koranist even though thekoranist are following what Allah is saying. Why is Islam in the koran so different from the Islam we find in hadiths?
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I don't see the point? So lets say me and someone got on a car accident and had a dispute about who is at fault. What do we do? Refer it to Allah and His messenger? If we had a contract that we had a dispute in, what do we do? Refer it to Allah and His messenger? You sound like the Islamist. And how do we today refer things to the messenger? How do we communicate with him? How do we know what his reply?
You may wish to contact the messenger by spiritism (a technique for contacting spirits through a glass), or something like that.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpCvjWzFlyQ -
So what do we do if Allah is saying one thing and the messenger is saying something else? Who do we follow? Or what do we do if the messenger said something that Allah never said? How do we follow both Allah and his messener then? So there must be consistency and agreement in what both say for us to follow them both. Since we can't follow one and not the other. Now I ask you is the "authentic" hadith telling us what the Koran is telling us? If so then Sunnis who follow those authentic hadith should be following the same Islam like the Koranist do. Yet we know their understanding of Islam is very different. In fact Sunnis do not even regognize the Koranist even though thekoranist are following what Allah is saying. Why is Islam in the koran so different from the Islam we find in hadiths?
Dear brother, you know nothing. Please read up on usool, fiqh, isnad, etc and after 20 years of study you may be able to hold an opinion. In the mean time let the blessed ulema (AS) dish these things out! Nobody gave you the authority to speak.
You mish wish to contact the messenger using spiritualism, or something like that.
You can contact him by seeing him in your dreams. Honourable people only. Sometimes the shaitan comes but he can never come as the Holy Prophet (PBUH).
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;D
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465
(465) But no, by your Lord, they cannot become true be-lievers until they seek your
arbitration in all matters on which they disagree among themselves, and then find not the least vexation in their hearts over what you have decided, and accept it in willing submissionWHO ARE IGNORANTS ? QURAN DECLARATION
267
(267) Then call to mind the other event when Moses said to his people, "Allah commands you to sacrifice a cow," they replied, "Do you mean to have a jest with us?" He answered, "I crave Allah's protection from behaving like ignorant people -
Dear brother, you know nothing. Please read up on usool, fiqh, isnad, etc and after 20 years of study you may be able to hold an opinion. In the mean time let the blessed ulema (AS) dish these things out! Nobody gave you the authority to speak.
You can contact him by seeing him in your dreams. Honourable people only. Sometimes the shaitan comes but he can never come as the Holy Prophet (PBUH).
;D
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The response to my statement regarding "federal secularism" demonstrated my silly expectation, that people would reflect on them; yet many responded with a knee-jerk reaction.
If God says "let them reject" or "you cannot force them to acknowledge", that is GOD'S LAW. In other words, providing an environment of "freedom to disbelief" or "freedom to be a kafir" is ISLAM. Let me give one more example. The Quran lists the shares of inheritance and instructs us to apply it AFTER the testator leaves a will. In other words, "the freedom not to follow the Quranic default rules of inheritance" is the Quranic law. Sunnies fabricated many hadith because of not using their critical thinking and they ignored the crucial word AFTER, over and over... Let me make it even clearer "Not imposing the rules of the Quran for muslims on non-muslims is the Quranic or Islamic law!" Please think and reflect on it before jumping on your keyboard.
Unfortunately, the minds of Muslims are so polluted by the teachings of Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties, when they think of Islam they dream of becoming "moral police" or dictators.
I have written articles on this in Turkish, but as it seems, I need to write another one in English, discussing the role of Muhammad as
- A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
- A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
- A federal-secular leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
- A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.
Peace,
EdipPece,
Edip -
Peace,
The response to my statement regarding "federal secularism" demonstrated my silly expectation, that people would reflect on them; yet many responded with a knee-jerk reaction.
If God says "let them reject" or "you cannot force them to acknowledge", that is GOD'S LAW. In other words, providing an environment of "freedom to disbelief" or "freedom to be a kafir" is ISLAM. Let me give one more example. The Quran lists the shares of inheritance and instructs us to apply it AFTER the testator leaves a will. In other words, "the freedom not to follow the Quranic default rules of inheritance" is the Quranic law. Sunnies fabricated many hadith because of not using their critical thinking and they ignored the crucial word AFTER, over and over... Let me make it even clearer "Not imposing the rules of the Quran for muslims on non-muslims is the Quranic or Islamic law!" Please think and reflect on it before jumping on your keyboard.
Unfortunately, the minds of Muslims are so polluted by the teachings of Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties, when they think of Islam they dream of becoming "moral police" or dictators.
I have written articles on this in Turkish, but as it seems, I need to write another one in English, discussing the role of Muhammad as
- A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
- A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
- A federal-secular leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
- A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.
Peace,
EdipPece,
EdipI must say that I fail to see the knee in your reactions.
I read your order as being out of sequence. Muhammad would have acted as a muslim leader before what you describe as a federal-secular leader. The foundations of that leadership, is non-secular. Remove #1, #2 and #4 from your list and you can get a federal-secular system of law and order, but not Justice. My understanding is that central to islam is the presence of God, which is not needed in a federal-secular system.
Secular islam, yeah I thought of that before...
adjwi
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The response to my statement regarding "federal secularism" demonstrated my silly expectation, that people would reflect on them; yet many responded with a knee-jerk reaction.
If God says "let them reject" or "you cannot force them to acknowledge", that is GOD'S LAW. In other words, providing an environment of "freedom to disbelief" or "freedom to be a kafir" is ISLAM. Let me give one more example. The Quran lists the shares of inheritance and instructs us to apply it AFTER the testator leaves a will. In other words, "the freedom not to follow the Quranic default rules of inheritance" is the Quranic law. Sunnies fabricated many hadith because of not using their critical thinking and they ignored the crucial word AFTER, over and over... Let me make it even clearer "Not imposing the rules of the Quran for muslims on non-muslims is the Quranic or Islamic law!" Please think and reflect on it before jumping on your keyboard.
Unfortunately, the minds of Muslims are so polluted by the teachings of Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties, when they think of Islam they dream of becoming "moral police" or dictators.
I have written articles on this in Turkish, but as it seems, I need to write another one in English, discussing the role of Muhammad as
- A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
- A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
- A federal-secular leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
- A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.
Peace,
EdipPece,
EdipThe response to my statement regarding "federal secularism" demonstrated my silly expectation, that people would reflect on them; yet many responded with a knee-jerk reaction.
rotfl rotfl rotfl
I have written articles on this in Turkish, but as it seems, I need to write another one in English, discussing the role of Muhammad as
- A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
- A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
- A federal-secular leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
- A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.
rotfl rotfl rotfl
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OPF
God alone is final authority.
Yes! God alone is final authority and that Authority has appointed his Messanger through power of attorney for mankind.
and by that virtue Muhammad was
A messenger of God, who delivered the Quran as a human mailman.
2. A submitter to God, who followed the Quran as a righteous man.
3. A leader, who led a city-state populated with a religiously and ethnically diverse group of people, according to the secular constitution.
4. A muslim leader, who led the group of muslims in that city-state, according to the specific laws of the Quran.Allah Ho Akbar.
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Layth
Quran tells us Hajj is to a place called Bakka (396) ? Bakka is recorded as being a name for the approach to Mt. Zion in Jerusalem; - Quran tells us that Abraham was charged with rebuilding the shrine and calling to the pilgrimage once again (2226-27) ? Previous recipients of the Scripture and their Scriptures all acknowledge the gathering in Jerusalem, but none have ever heard of Mecca Arabia;
- Quran tells us the
situation/station of Abrahamis located at this site (397) ? Jerusalem has the rock where Abraham supposedly was about to sacrifice his son located on the temple mount, whereas Mecca Arabia has some so-called footprints enclosed in brass; - Quran tells us that that the location of the pilgrimage is on a
high placehence people are approaching it from lower/deep enclosures (2227) ? Jerusalem?s temple mount is on a high place, while the temple in Mecca Arabia is at the base of the valley ? common for temples constructed for idol worship during those days; - Quran tells us that olives grew at the ?peaceful town? where the prophet was (951-3) ? Jerusalem is abundant in olive trees, while Mecca Arabia has none;
- Quran tells us that a place called Mecca was an obstacle in the way to reaching the restricted temple in Bakka (4824);
- Quran tells us the Qibla was changed twice (2142-144), once away from the restricted temple (as a test) and then back to it again ? the idolworshippers until today acknowledge that the first Qibla was Jerusalem, but they refuse to acknowledge that there was ever a change back;
- The restricted temple has been made off-limits to the idolworshippers since the time of the prophet (92 ? Yet, Mecca Arabia is infested with idolworshippers until today, while the temple mount in Jerusalem has not called the pilgrimage to it and therefore has not received anyone for just as long;
- The controversy and doubt over Mecca were evident in the early days after the prophet?s death whereby the kaaba in Mecca was catapulted and destroyed by an Islamic army while the temple in Jerusalem was honored and upgraded.
- Evidence exists showing mosques built after the death of the prophet with their Qiblas aligned towards Jerusalem ? not Mecca (Cook & Crone).
There are probably a few more points I missed, but you get the idea.
To you is your system and to me is mine.
Agnoistic
Would you please provide evidence for the highlighted queries in your post? Or these are claims just for the sake of claims without any concrete evidence?
RegardsI was waiting for brother Layth to comment on above, but since a time has been passed, either he is busy or not interested.
So let me comment on his points one by one. - Quran tells us the