Book: Modern Muslim Intellectuals and The Quran
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peace bro,
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it too, once you've read it.
I was surprised Fazlur Rahman was significantly anti-hadith and openly admitted gross distortions had taken place in the formulation of law, as he is considered one of the significant Islamic scholars of the 20th century, even by traditional Muslims. I am confident, the more we dig, the more we will see many have recognised the problems we are pointing out.
There were a number of pakistan/india scholars from that era (british rule) who pretty much acknowledged quran above all and were critcal of hadith and blind acceptance of historians. Sir Syed Ahmed Khan is probably the earliest. These guys shaped the way most pakistanis thought .....but sadly no more.
Even when you read the works of Mohammad Asad and Yusuf Ali, you can see they were not comfortable with direction Islam was taking
and called people back to the Quran. I think it was Asad or Iqbal who called it "Alien Islam".Exteremisim in pk only took hold with Zia and the CIA pouring millions into their hands to fight the russians. It changed everything.
All of a sudden these guys were everywhere - they destroyed what could have been a great country.What we need to do is carry on doing what we do, just keep applying the pressure and stick together.
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I find the so-called Historical approach to the Quran intellectually bankrupt, and theologically problematic.
Those whose cultural upbringing is not comfortable with Quranic instructions or those who lack the right methodology or knowledge for the proper understanding of the meaning of verses and the rationale behind them, yes anyone who wishes to discard any instruction in the Quran that does not conform to his or her wishes, will reject/abrogate any divine instruction/statement by claiming, "These verses were about the past generations; not us!" This so-called "historic" opposition to the Quran is refuted by many verses, including 619.
I do not consider Fazlurrahman and his followers as acknowledgers of the Quran, since they can reject ALL the verses of the Quran (including verses about prayer, charity and fasting, etc), except a few general statements, by using the same rationale "these are the stories of past!" Ironically, this excuse is mentioned in the Quran and attributed to mushriks.
Peace,
Edip -
Edip whether we use the "historical approach", "every thing is a metaphor approach"
or "lets change the meaning of this word" approach we are all guilty of rejecting
some part and accepting other parts of the Quran because of what we want to see in the Quran due to our cultural upbringing. This forum is living proof of this.So lets listen to all the words and follow the best.
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peace,
Edip, your view may be valid for others perhaps trying to do what you said, but as far as I can see, FR isn't one of them. He is arguing for taking the ethics of AQ into account before and when formulating law, nothing about re-writing prayer/charity/fasting/etc.
burhan, yeah I was aware of SAK, as he was mentioned a lot in the book 'Rethinking Tradition in Modern Islamic Thought'.
So lets listen to all the words and follow the best.
I agree.
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Edip whether we use the "historical approach", "every thing is a metaphor approach"
or "lets change the meaning of this word" approach we are all guilty of rejecting
some part and accepting other parts of the Quran because of what we want to see in the Quran due to our cultural upbringing. This forum is living proof of this.So lets listen to all the words and follow the best.
Your innuendo is a good one. However, there is categorical difference between the following methodologies
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The meaning of some words have been intentionally or unintentionally changed throughout centuries. We should use the language of the Quran to find the intended Quranic meaning. Some words might have multiple meanings and any such meanings that do not create contradiction within the ayas of the Quran and the ayas of nature are intended meanings.
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We should stop following some verses, EVEN IF THEY INSTRUCT ITS AUDIANCE TO DO SOMETHING, because of their historic nature.
The second one, though might be a proper tool of understanding the Quran, it requires textual justification, and without a clear set of reasonable rules it is a slippery slope that might lead to rejection of all the instructions.
Thus, I would appreciate those who are more familiar with Fazlurrahman's position, provide a list of verses that Fazl thinks are historic.
Peace,
EdipPeace,
Edip -
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Thus, I would appreciate those who are more familiar with Fazlurrahman's position, provide a list of verses that Fazl thinks are historic.
may be a good example of an historical verse, since today?s transactions may be more complex, and because of the new technologies for tracing a transaction.
Therefore, I think we should place the verse into its historical context, in order to separate the contextual circumstances from the wisdom behind God?s instructions, and then, reflect on how we can apply the lessons of this verse into our present historical context.
Peace
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may be a good example of an historical verse, since today?s transactions may be more complex, and because of the new technologies for tracing a transaction.
Therefore, I think we should place the verse into its historical context, in order to separate the contextual contingencies from the wisdom behind God?s instructions, and then, reflect on how we can apply the lessons of this verse into our present historical context.
Peace
I don't think so, today's transactions aren't very different. The modern day scribe is a solicitor/lawyer.
I don't think there are any such 'historical verses' in any case except for those in the past tense speaking directly to muhammad.
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Peace,
- We should stop following some verses, EVEN IF THEY INSTRUCT ITS AUDIANCE TO DO SOMETHING, because of their historic nature.
Would you mind expanding on this idea? Do those verses with a ''historic nature'' take on the quality of Stop and Go, or is it Stop and No Go? Would those verses be of use later? Or is it that we have a historically outdated qur'an in part of it's content? Am I beginning to sense the need of a revelation? Or is it a message? Edip, would you perhaps be in the process of becoming a messenger yourself? Are we to be witness to something here?
adjwi
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Peace,
Would you mind expanding on this idea? Do those verses with a ''historic nature'' take on the quality of Stop and Go, or is it Stop and No Go? Would those verses be of use later? Or is it that we have a historically outdated qur'an in part of it's content? Am I beginning to sense the need of a revelation? Or is it a message? Edip, would you perhaps be in the process of becoming a messenger yourself? Are we to be witness to something here?
adjwi
I think you have misunderstood Edip's post.
Please read it again, along with the previous posts of the topic.Peace
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Your innuendo is a good one. However, there is categorical difference between the following methodologies
Relax bro, no innendo, I wasn't taking a pot shot at your new translation. My point was that any methodology is only as good as the person using it.
In order to prove your point you have given the best case scenario for 1. and worst case for 2.Any approach that breaks free the Quran from a particular time-zone is a good one. Besides most of the Quran is about the praising God and accepting he is one.
Very little is about telling us what to do, but rather encouraging us to do what is we naturally know to be right. A reminder and a strength giver is what the Quran is to me.Inshallah, I will post something on FR in due course.
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Peace Brother,
Thanks for keeping us posted. I received this book yesterday, ordering it right after you recommended it, from bookdepository.co.uk. Can't wait to read it!
Nadeem
Just wanted to clarify. Saying I have been reading a book, does not mean I recommended it. I forgot to say that earlier. Wish I did now, as I've been reading the rest of this book and it's quite poor. I would say why, but the reviews on amazon.com have plenty of info.
Once I'm finished it I will summarise.
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Peace Wakas,
I'm sorry for the assumption. I must say now, that the book has fallen considerably on my list of books to read next, but in time, I'll get to it. Inshallah.
I haven't read the reviews on Amazon in detail, but every reviewer has given it a five out five.
Nadeem
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Peace,
I would recommend it just for the part on Dr.Mohammed Shahrour as his theories are the most interesting ones.
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I also recommend
http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51OBXnHF6TL.SS500.jpg
Defenders of Reason In Islam Mu'tazilism and Rational Theology from Medieval School to Modern Symbol (Paperback)
And
http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WCA6ADGCL.BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg
Faith and Reason in Islam Averroes' Exposition of Religious Arguments (Great Islamic Writings) (Paperback)
And
http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415RYX7JB5L.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg
Liberal Islam A Sourcebook (Paperback)
And if you like to share more bookideas I recommend to join me at
http//www.shelfari.com/ArnoldYasinMol
It is a very handy booksite where you can make a handy list of favorites, wishlist and so on.
I have also formed a little discussion group there with Maxq and Edip and Samia.
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Also
http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41V1TyPRmZL.AA240.jpg
Islam Past, Present and Future (Hardcover)
It is a very good book on Islam, the different theories, ideas and tries to understand early Islam more as a system that was later formed into a religion. Hans Kung was the main advisor on Islam for the Roman Catholic church but was kicked out, or rather being degraded, because he acknowledged the Quran being from God and that the Trinity was a man-made doctrine. He says the Quran presents the correct picture of the early Christians.
It has everything from A-Z on Islam.
Kung's words
"There will be no peace among the nations without peace among the religions. There will be no peace among the religions without dialogue among the religions." - K?ng speaking on global ethic
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http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R1RKBV0RL.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg
The Origins and Evolution of Islamic Law (Themes in Islamic Law) (Paperback)
very good also
