Book: Modern Muslim Intellectuals and The Quran

Edip_Yuksel

Edip whether we use the "historical approach", "every thing is a metaphor approach"
or "lets change the meaning of this word" approach we are all guilty of rejecting
some part and accepting other parts of the Quran because of what we want to see in the Quran due to our cultural upbringing. This forum is living proof of this.

So lets listen to all the words and follow the best.

Your innuendo is a good one. However, there is categorical difference between the following methodologies

The meaning of some words have been intentionally or unintentionally changed throughout centuries. We should use the language of the Quran to find the intended Quranic meaning. Some words might have multiple meanings and any such meanings that do not create contradiction within the ayas of the Quran and the ayas of nature are intended meanings.
We should stop following some verses, EVEN IF THEY INSTRUCT ITS AUDIANCE TO DO SOMETHING, because of their historic nature.

The second one, though might be a proper tool of understanding the Quran, it requires textual justification, and without a clear set of reasonable rules it is a slippery slope that might lead to rejection of all the instructions.

Thus, I would appreciate those who are more familiar with Fazlurrahman's position, provide a list of verses that Fazl thinks are historic.

Peace,
Edip

wildguest1956

Thus, I would appreciate those who are more familiar with Fazlurrahman's position, provide a list of verses that Fazl thinks are historic.

may be a good example of an historical verse, since today?s transactions may be more complex, and because of the new technologies for tracing a transaction.

Therefore, I think we should place the verse into its historical context, in order to separate the contextual circumstances from the wisdom behind God?s instructions, and then, reflect on how we can apply the lessons of this verse into our present historical context.

Peace

unknownuser

may be a good example of an historical verse, since today?s transactions may be more complex, and because of the new technologies for tracing a transaction.

Therefore, I think we should place the verse into its historical context, in order to separate the contextual contingencies from the wisdom behind God?s instructions, and then, reflect on how we can apply the lessons of this verse into our present historical context.

Peace

I don't think so, today's transactions aren't very different. The modern day scribe is a solicitor/lawyer.

I don't think there are any such 'historical verses' in any case except for those in the past tense speaking directly to muhammad.

adjwi

Peace,

We should stop following some verses, EVEN IF THEY INSTRUCT ITS AUDIANCE TO DO SOMETHING, because of their historic nature.

Would you mind expanding on this idea? Do those verses with a ''historic nature'' take on the quality of Stop and Go, or is it Stop and No Go? Would those verses be of use later? Or is it that we have a historically outdated qur'an in part of it's content? Am I beginning to sense the need of a revelation? Or is it a message? Edip, would you perhaps be in the process of becoming a messenger yourself? Are we to be witness to something here?

adjwi

wildguest1956

Peace,

Would you mind expanding on this idea? Do those verses with a ''historic nature'' take on the quality of Stop and Go, or is it Stop and No Go? Would those verses be of use later? Or is it that we have a historically outdated qur'an in part of it's content? Am I beginning to sense the need of a revelation? Or is it a message? Edip, would you perhaps be in the process of becoming a messenger yourself? Are we to be witness to something here?

adjwi

I think you have misunderstood Edip's post.
Please read it again, along with the previous posts of the topic.

Peace

adjwi

Peace,

I think you have misunderstood Edip's post.
Please read it again, along with the previous posts of the topic.

Peace

I was wrong, I'm sorry for that Edip, thanks JM.

adjwi

burhan

Your innuendo is a good one. However, there is categorical difference between the following methodologies

Relax bro, no innendo, I wasn't taking a pot shot at your new translation. My point was that any methodology is only as good as the person using it.
In order to prove your point you have given the best case scenario for 1. and worst case for 2.

Any approach that breaks free the Quran from a particular time-zone is a good one. Besides most of the Quran is about the praising God and accepting he is one.
Very little is about telling us what to do, but rather encouraging us to do what is we naturally know to be right. A reminder and a strength giver is what the Quran is to me.

Inshallah, I will post something on FR in due course.

Wakas

Peace Brother,

Thanks for keeping us posted. I received this book yesterday, ordering it right after you recommended it, from bookdepository.co.uk. Can't wait to read it!

Nadeem

Just wanted to clarify. Saying I have been reading a book, does not mean I recommended it. I forgot to say that earlier. Wish I did now, as I've been reading the rest of this book and it's quite poor. I would say why, but the reviews on amazon.com have plenty of info.

Once I'm finished it I will summarise.

nadeem

Peace Wakas,

I'm sorry for the assumption. I must say now, that the book has fallen considerably on my list of books to read next, but in time, I'll get to it. Inshallah.

I haven't read the reviews on Amazon in detail, but every reviewer has given it a five out five.

Nadeem

arnoldyasin

Peace,

I would recommend it just for the part on Dr.Mohammed Shahrour as his theories are the most interesting ones.

nadeem

Thanks Yasin... it has now moved up a few places on the list... -)

arnoldyasin

I also recommend

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51OBXnHF6TL.SS500.jpg

Defenders of Reason In Islam Mu'tazilism and Rational Theology from Medieval School to Modern Symbol (Paperback)

And

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WCA6ADGCL.BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg

Faith and Reason in Islam Averroes' Exposition of Religious Arguments (Great Islamic Writings) (Paperback)

And

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415RYX7JB5L.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg

Liberal Islam A Sourcebook (Paperback)

And if you like to share more bookideas I recommend to join me at

http//www.shelfari.com/ArnoldYasinMol

It is a very handy booksite where you can make a handy list of favorites, wishlist and so on.

I have also formed a little discussion group there with Maxq and Edip and Samia.

arnoldyasin

Also

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41V1TyPRmZL.AA240.jpg

Islam Past, Present and Future (Hardcover)

It is a very good book on Islam, the different theories, ideas and tries to understand early Islam more as a system that was later formed into a religion. Hans Kung was the main advisor on Islam for the Roman Catholic church but was kicked out, or rather being degraded, because he acknowledged the Quran being from God and that the Trinity was a man-made doctrine. He says the Quran presents the correct picture of the early Christians.

It has everything from A-Z on Islam.

Kung's words

"There will be no peace among the nations without peace among the religions. There will be no peace among the religions without dialogue among the religions." - K?ng speaking on global ethic

arnoldyasin

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41R1RKBV0RL.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg

The Origins and Evolution of Islamic Law (Themes in Islamic Law) (Paperback)

very good also

nadeem

Peace Arnold.

Thanks for the tips. I have bookmarked this thread now -)

Nadeem

arnoldyasin

ooohhh...bookmark hah?

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51oASWo3qaL.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg

What the Koran Really Says Language, Text, and Commentary (Hardcover)

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41CG72089AL.AA240.jpg

Pioneers of Islamic Revival Second Edition (Studies in Islamic Society) (Paperback)

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AHF0RD72L.AA240.jpg

Evolution and/or Creation An Islamic Perspective (Paperback)

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51R15VR3QVL.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg

The Miracles of Exodus A Scientist's Discovery of the Extraordinary Natural Causes of the Biblical Stories (Paperback)

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51nBo2lAvGL.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg

God's Caliph Religious Authority in the First Centuries of Islam (University of Cambridge Oriental Publications) (Paperback)

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51fJYjhg7-L.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg

Introduction to the Qur'an (Paperback)

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IG5w31G9L.AA240.jpg

Science and the Akashic Field An Integral Theory of Everything (Paperback)

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pYyeCctIL.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg

Cosmic Jackpot Why Our Universe Is Just Right for Life (Hardcover)

arnoldyasin

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GHDTXD6KL.AA240.jpg

The Quran Unchallengeable Miracle (Paperback)

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31P5F9VX55L.BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20.jpg

History of Islamic Philosophy (Routledge History of World Philosophies)

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41X0YTCWS8L.AA240.jpg

Muslim Conspiracies Against the Quaran (Paperback)

http//quraniceducationandresearch.com/

arnoldyasin

easier to check my favorites list

http//www.shelfari.com/ArnoldYasinMol/shelf#firstBook=0&list=1&sort=dateadded

Jack

Thanks for that Arnold.

Wakas, you need to create a list too man.

Wakas

peace,

Nadeem, personally, I would be suspicious of the amazon.com ratings, especially if there are so few. I primarily meant the content of the reviews, in which they discuss what each "modern muslim intellectual" is saying.

I am nearly 2/3 through, so I have covered the following parts

Nurcholish Madjid - religious pluralism and tolerance.
He basically outlines the arguments for the above, but anyone who is familiar with AQ will know this anyway.

Amina Wadud - women rereading sacred texts.
Again, anyone who is familiar with AQ and has access to the internet can read up on the issues she brings up (434 and beat, two women witness for one man, women's share of inheritance, polygamy etc). It's good for those who have not come across these points before.

Mohammed Arkoun - towards a radical thinking of Islamic thought.
An extremely difficult read due to the unusual/archaic language used. Waste of time reading this part in my opinion.

Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd - from revelation to interpretation.
Basically outlines why a single interpretation of the message(s) in AQ cannot be considered binding and for all time. This was decent.

Arnold, one of the main reasons I bought the book was for the part on Shahrour, so hopefully that'll be good.

HMD, I dont read many books, and the ones I do I mention here, so a list wouldn't consist of much.