Virgin Birth of Isa
-
I know this sounds like straddling the fence between two seemingly irreconcilable views, but from a Jewish rabbinical perspective, both are possible. Some rabbis did not consider a woman to have lost her virginity until her first menstruation, regardless if she had intercourse or not. So, if Mary became pregnant at her first ovulation and before her first menstruation, then she would be considered by some to be a virgin until after giving birth and then having her first menstruation once her hormones returned to pre-pregnancy levels. If you think about the incredible timing that would need to be involved in something like that happening, then by pre-scientific standards you certainly have a miracle, and by scientific standards you have something that while not technically a "miracle" is certainly statistically almost impossible.
Peace.
I think my question has not been understood.
I was wondering how a woman (in our case, Mary) can become pregnant without a man (without the sperm of him). Who made her pregnant ?
Peace
-
I think my question has not been understood.
I was wondering how a woman (in our case, Mary) can become pregnant without a man (without the sperm of him). Who made her pregnant ?
Peace
Peace,
I understood your question. ) What I'm saying is that it is possible to consider Jesus' birth to be a "virgin birth" by rabbinical interpretations of the Torah that were espoused by some at the time of Jesus, AND for Joseph to be his biological father like anyone else's father.
The possibility of this has been treated from both Jewish and Christian schools of thought. The late Christian scholar William Barclay did so, as did historian and Dead Sea Scrolls translator Geza Vermes in his book "Jesus the Jew".
So I guess what I'm saying is that what you consider to be a virgin birth, i.e., a child born without sperm, may not be the definition of a virgin birth by the context in which the concept originated. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying it is a possibility for consideration.
-
Peace,
With the Nazerenes, a female was considered a virgin until she got her first child. As Jesus was her first child, he was born out of a "virgin". They used also the term that is more closely to the Aramiac term for "maiden" that was mistranslated to the greek word for "virgin". This is how the misunderstanding was created as Romans were used to virgin births from the Mithra and Isis-Horus myths.
Paul clearly says Joseph is the father of Jesus.
This is why the Quran cannot support a Christian myth that even was uphold in the first Christian movement until 60 years later.
-
A question to those who believe in the virgin birth of Isa How could his mother Mary become pregnant, without a human father ?
Peace
How can ADAM be created out of "DUST"??
How can Parthenogenesis can produce living one ?
How can "Dolli" sheep can be produced without "fertilization "? -
How can ADAM be created out of "DUST"??
How can Parthenogenesis can produce living one ?
How can "Dolli" sheep can be produced without "fertilization "?I don't know about the second one or the third but have a read of this for the first
http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4702336.stm - There they attempted to create life and failed. But they used clay.
-
A question to those who believe in the virgin birth of Isa How could his mother Mary become pregnant, without a human father ?
Peace
I will rephrase my question in more specific terms.
A question to those who believe in the virgin birth of Isa How could his mother Mary become pregnant, without a human father ? Did it happen because God blew his spirit into Mary ?
Peace
-
I think it's going to take some time before I'm lettng go of the virgin birth thing.
But a lot of the thread reminds me of a joke I heard.
A world-famous geneticist walks into a church and says "God. We don't need you anymore. We can create life now."
Well, God, who hears this a lot, decides this time, to pay attention and asks, "Is that so?"
The scientist says "Yes, and we can even do it the same way."
God asks "Out of dust?"
"Yes," answered the scientist.
"Show me." God said.
So the geneticist bent over and began scooping together a ball of dust. God interrupted him, "Hey..."
"Yes God?" said the scientist.
"Get your own dust."
-
Got married comes from "ahsanat". If it is "preserved" the quran uses another verb "hafaza hafazat farajaha", which is also the literal meaning of "to preserve".
As for the "tasteless", it is believing that God "blew into her faraj". Why does God have to blow into the faraj to make her pregnant? What about the "be and he is"?Moremover, God did blow His Spirit into the bashar/Neanderthal, which was already created of dust, to turn them into Adam/Homo sapiens (wise, knowing humans)...So He blew into jesus to make him wise and knowing, not into a "faraj" to make someone pregnant. This is the comparison between Adam (us) and Jesus.
-
Salaam,
I completely agree with Samia, only it is not Neanderthaler but the Homo-Ergaster that was the ancestor of the Homo Sapiens. Neanderthalers were a seperate branch that lived together with Homo-Sapiens for about 100.000 to 40.000 years untill they died for reasons still unspecified.
http//anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/images/bigtree2.GIF
-
Peace all,
Moremover, God did blow His Spirit into the bashar/Neanderthal, which was already created of dust, to turn them into Adam/Homo sapiens (wise, knowing humans)...So He blew into jesus to make him wise and knowing, not into a "faraj" to make someone pregnant. This is the comparison between Adam (us) and Jesus.
Salaam,
I completely agree with Samia, only it is not Neanderthaler but the Homo-Ergaster that was the ancestor of the Homo Sapiens. Neanderthalers were a seperate branch that lived together with Homo-Sapiens for about 100.000 to 40.000 years untill they died for reasons still unspecified.
1920 She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1920 Qalat anna yakoonu lee ghulamun walam yamsasnee basharun walam aku baghiyyan
O.K. so that's what Mary was saying... but what was it, the Neanderthal or the Homo-Ergaster that hadn't touched her??? ??? ;D
adjwi
-
Peace,
We were talking about the Bashar concerning the creation of Modern Man/Adam being pre-historic man and that the Ruh is not used for organs but for humans.
-
How was Adam born?? that must have been pretty miraculous ... don't you think ....... ??
God can do whatever He wants .... if He can create the Heavens and the Earth, what makes you think He cannot create a mere human without the act of copulation -))
How mankind deludes itself ... we are nothing ... and GOD can make much more than nothing out of thin air -))
Jesus was born without a father ... his fathers are Abraham (as a believer) and Adam (as one form mankind) ......... the spirit Gabriel descended from GOD to deliver Jesus to Mary ....... without a mans penis going into her ...... period ..... take it or leave it .... either you accept all the book or non of it ..... there is no middle ground .. and if you don't believe there is a Creator .. nothing really matters anyways whether you accept or reject
Peace
-
Peace,
With the Nazerenes, a female was considered a virgin until she got her first child. As Jesus was her first child, he was born out of a "virgin". They used also the term that is more closely to the Aramiac term for "maiden" that was mistranslated to the greek word for "virgin". This is how the misunderstanding was created as Romans were used to virgin births from the Mithra and Isis-Horus myths.
This is why the Quran cannot support a Christian myth that even was uphold in the first Christian movement until 60 years later.
Do not believe this Comment; The Quran Supports the Virgin Bearth of Jesus.
And if you follow this comment you will go astray. elektro -
Peace,
With the Nazerenes, a female was considered a virgin until she got her first child. As Jesus was her first child, he was born out of a "virgin". They used also the term that is more closely to the Aramiac term for "maiden" that was mistranslated to the greek word for "virgin". This is how the misunderstanding was created as Romans were used to virgin births from the Mithra and Isis-Horus myths.
Paul clearly says Joseph is the father of Jesus.
This is why the Quran cannot support a Christian myth that even was uphold in the first Christian movement until 60 years later.
Do not confuse traditions with the rules of GOD.
It does not matter what the traditions "considered."
One should not try to understand scripture based on "traditional" definitions.
Here's an example...In some modern societies....it is common to move in and live with a girlfriend/boyfriend without acknowledging the bonds of marriage.
Many won't even say that they are "married in the eyes of God..." they just claim to be "lovers."Often times when the woman does eventually get married she will usually where white (a symbol of purity) because she has never "officially" been married.
This is tradition.
Not based on the Quran.
Should we use this understanding of purity for interpretting the Quran?
No.
Look to the Quran for your definitions of chastity or virginity.Salam,
Arnab -
Do not confuse traditions with the rules of GOD.
It does not matter what the traditions "considered."
One should not try to understand scripture based on "traditional" definitions.
Here's an example...Salaam Arnab,
I mentioned it to explain how the misunderstanding was created in Christian thought. My understanding of no virgin birth in the Quran stands seperate from what I mention above.
-
Moremover, God did blow His Spirit into the bashar/Neanderthal, which was already created of dust, to turn them into Adam/Homo sapiens (wise, knowing humans)...So He blew into jesus to make him wise and knowing, not into a "faraj" to make someone pregnant. This is the comparison between Adam (us) and Jesus.
1920 She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1920 Qalat anna yakoonu lee ghulamun walam yamsasnee basharun walam aku baghiyyan
O.K. so that's what Mary was saying... but what was it, the Neanderthal or the Homo-Ergaster that hadn't touched her??? ??? ;D
adjwi
How about No human has been with me , (not even a Neanderthal)?
But seriously
What's the difference between "insaan" and "bashar"? Or rather What's the similarity between "insaan" and "bashar"?
Hint 3uluum insaaniyya Human sciences
Tib bashary MedicineThe difference the intellect
The similarity the anatomy.When Mary said "lam yamsasny bashar" she was referring to the anatomical aspect.
-
Peace all
(٠
Then will Allah say "O Jesus, the son of Mary! recount my favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said `This is nothing but evident magic'. (4-110)
(٦
And behold! Allah will say "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, `worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah"? He will say "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. (4-116)
Why GOD Called him "THE SON OF MARY". Is that aginest GODS order that says CALL THEM BY THEIR FATHER?
(٥
Call them by (the names) of their fathers that is juster in the sight of Allah but if ye know not their father's (names, call them), your Brothers in faith, or your Mawlas. But there is no blame on you if ye make a mistake therein (what counts is) the intention of your hearts and Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. (33-5)
DO you know that Calling some one by his Mother name is a SIN?
The Virgin Birth of Jesus is The TRUTH (According to GOD Words), and Jesus had no Father, simple as that.
peace