Virgin Birth of Isa
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A question to those who believe in the virgin birth of Isa How could his mother Mary become pregnant, without a human father ?
Peace
I will rephrase my question in more specific terms.
A question to those who believe in the virgin birth of Isa How could his mother Mary become pregnant, without a human father ? Did it happen because God blew his spirit into Mary ?
Peace
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I think it's going to take some time before I'm lettng go of the virgin birth thing.
But a lot of the thread reminds me of a joke I heard.
A world-famous geneticist walks into a church and says "God. We don't need you anymore. We can create life now."
Well, God, who hears this a lot, decides this time, to pay attention and asks, "Is that so?"
The scientist says "Yes, and we can even do it the same way."
God asks "Out of dust?"
"Yes," answered the scientist.
"Show me." God said.
So the geneticist bent over and began scooping together a ball of dust. God interrupted him, "Hey..."
"Yes God?" said the scientist.
"Get your own dust."
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Got married comes from "ahsanat". If it is "preserved" the quran uses another verb "hafaza hafazat farajaha", which is also the literal meaning of "to preserve".
As for the "tasteless", it is believing that God "blew into her faraj". Why does God have to blow into the faraj to make her pregnant? What about the "be and he is"?Moremover, God did blow His Spirit into the bashar/Neanderthal, which was already created of dust, to turn them into Adam/Homo sapiens (wise, knowing humans)...So He blew into jesus to make him wise and knowing, not into a "faraj" to make someone pregnant. This is the comparison between Adam (us) and Jesus.
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Salaam,
I completely agree with Samia, only it is not Neanderthaler but the Homo-Ergaster that was the ancestor of the Homo Sapiens. Neanderthalers were a seperate branch that lived together with Homo-Sapiens for about 100.000 to 40.000 years untill they died for reasons still unspecified.
http//anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/images/bigtree2.GIF
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Peace all,
Moremover, God did blow His Spirit into the bashar/Neanderthal, which was already created of dust, to turn them into Adam/Homo sapiens (wise, knowing humans)...So He blew into jesus to make him wise and knowing, not into a "faraj" to make someone pregnant. This is the comparison between Adam (us) and Jesus.
Salaam,
I completely agree with Samia, only it is not Neanderthaler but the Homo-Ergaster that was the ancestor of the Homo Sapiens. Neanderthalers were a seperate branch that lived together with Homo-Sapiens for about 100.000 to 40.000 years untill they died for reasons still unspecified.
1920 She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1920 Qalat anna yakoonu lee ghulamun walam yamsasnee basharun walam aku baghiyyan
O.K. so that's what Mary was saying... but what was it, the Neanderthal or the Homo-Ergaster that hadn't touched her??? ??? ;D
adjwi
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Peace,
We were talking about the Bashar concerning the creation of Modern Man/Adam being pre-historic man and that the Ruh is not used for organs but for humans.
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How was Adam born?? that must have been pretty miraculous ... don't you think ....... ??
God can do whatever He wants .... if He can create the Heavens and the Earth, what makes you think He cannot create a mere human without the act of copulation -))
How mankind deludes itself ... we are nothing ... and GOD can make much more than nothing out of thin air -))
Jesus was born without a father ... his fathers are Abraham (as a believer) and Adam (as one form mankind) ......... the spirit Gabriel descended from GOD to deliver Jesus to Mary ....... without a mans penis going into her ...... period ..... take it or leave it .... either you accept all the book or non of it ..... there is no middle ground .. and if you don't believe there is a Creator .. nothing really matters anyways whether you accept or reject
Peace
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Peace,
With the Nazerenes, a female was considered a virgin until she got her first child. As Jesus was her first child, he was born out of a "virgin". They used also the term that is more closely to the Aramiac term for "maiden" that was mistranslated to the greek word for "virgin". This is how the misunderstanding was created as Romans were used to virgin births from the Mithra and Isis-Horus myths.
This is why the Quran cannot support a Christian myth that even was uphold in the first Christian movement until 60 years later.
Do not believe this Comment; The Quran Supports the Virgin Bearth of Jesus.
And if you follow this comment you will go astray. elektro -
Peace,
With the Nazerenes, a female was considered a virgin until she got her first child. As Jesus was her first child, he was born out of a "virgin". They used also the term that is more closely to the Aramiac term for "maiden" that was mistranslated to the greek word for "virgin". This is how the misunderstanding was created as Romans were used to virgin births from the Mithra and Isis-Horus myths.
Paul clearly says Joseph is the father of Jesus.
This is why the Quran cannot support a Christian myth that even was uphold in the first Christian movement until 60 years later.
Do not confuse traditions with the rules of GOD.
It does not matter what the traditions "considered."
One should not try to understand scripture based on "traditional" definitions.
Here's an example...In some modern societies....it is common to move in and live with a girlfriend/boyfriend without acknowledging the bonds of marriage.
Many won't even say that they are "married in the eyes of God..." they just claim to be "lovers."Often times when the woman does eventually get married she will usually where white (a symbol of purity) because she has never "officially" been married.
This is tradition.
Not based on the Quran.
Should we use this understanding of purity for interpretting the Quran?
No.
Look to the Quran for your definitions of chastity or virginity.Salam,
Arnab -
Do not confuse traditions with the rules of GOD.
It does not matter what the traditions "considered."
One should not try to understand scripture based on "traditional" definitions.
Here's an example...Salaam Arnab,
I mentioned it to explain how the misunderstanding was created in Christian thought. My understanding of no virgin birth in the Quran stands seperate from what I mention above.
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Moremover, God did blow His Spirit into the bashar/Neanderthal, which was already created of dust, to turn them into Adam/Homo sapiens (wise, knowing humans)...So He blew into jesus to make him wise and knowing, not into a "faraj" to make someone pregnant. This is the comparison between Adam (us) and Jesus.
1920 She said "How can I have a son when no human being has been with me, nor have I desired such?"
1920 Qalat anna yakoonu lee ghulamun walam yamsasnee basharun walam aku baghiyyan
O.K. so that's what Mary was saying... but what was it, the Neanderthal or the Homo-Ergaster that hadn't touched her??? ??? ;D
adjwi
How about No human has been with me , (not even a Neanderthal)?
But seriously
What's the difference between "insaan" and "bashar"? Or rather What's the similarity between "insaan" and "bashar"?
Hint 3uluum insaaniyya Human sciences
Tib bashary MedicineThe difference the intellect
The similarity the anatomy.When Mary said "lam yamsasny bashar" she was referring to the anatomical aspect.
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Peace all
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Then will Allah say "O Jesus, the son of Mary! recount my favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said `This is nothing but evident magic'. (4-110)
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And behold! Allah will say "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, `worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah"? He will say "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. (4-116)
Why GOD Called him "THE SON OF MARY". Is that aginest GODS order that says CALL THEM BY THEIR FATHER?
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Call them by (the names) of their fathers that is juster in the sight of Allah but if ye know not their father's (names, call them), your Brothers in faith, or your Mawlas. But there is no blame on you if ye make a mistake therein (what counts is) the intention of your hearts and Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. (33-5)
DO you know that Calling some one by his Mother name is a SIN?
The Virgin Birth of Jesus is The TRUTH (According to GOD Words), and Jesus had no Father, simple as that.
peace
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Peace all
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Then will Allah say "O Jesus, the son of Mary! recount my favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said `This is nothing but evident magic'. (4-110)
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And behold! Allah will say "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, `worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah"? He will say "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. (4-116)
Why GOD Called him "THE SON OF MARY". Is that aginest GODS order that says CALL THEM BY THEIR FATHER?
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Call them by (the names) of their fathers that is juster in the sight of Allah but if ye know not their father's (names, call them), your Brothers in faith, or your Mawlas. But there is no blame on you if ye make a mistake therein (what counts is) the intention of your hearts and Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. (33-5)
DO you know that Calling some one by his Mother name is a SIN?
The Virgin Birth of Jesus is The TRUTH (According to GOD Words), and Jesus had no Father, simple as that.
peace
This already had been discussed before in detail, please look it up. All of your points are boring since they are old and already refuted before again and again.
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Call them by (the names) of their fathers that is juster in the sight of Allah but if ye know not their father's (names, call them), your Brothers in faith, or your Mawlas. But there is no blame on you if ye make a mistake therein (what counts is) the intention of your hearts and Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. (33-5)
DO you know that Calling some one by his Mother name is a SIN?
" " Chapter 2170
Is this verse speaking about the fathers? Can we conclude, according to your understanding, that the ones who are irrational, ignorant, unknowledgeable ...etc fall in the category of fathers only...? -
Call them by (the names) of their fathers that is juster in the sight of Allah but if ye know not their father's (names, call them), your Brothers in faith, or your Mawlas. But there is no blame on you if ye make a mistake therein (what counts is) the intention of your hearts and Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. (33-5)
DO you know that Calling some one by his Mother name is a SIN?
The Virgin Birth of Jesus is The TRUTH (According to GOD Words), and Jesus had no Father, simple as that.
peace
What are you talking about? Jesus in Arabic would be called Isa bin Miryam. Which means Jesus was called by his Mother's name! He is called so in the Qur'an. Where did you get this that calling someone after his Mother's name is a sin?
What the -
" " Chapter 2170
Is this verse speaking about the fathers? Can we conclude, according to your understanding, that the ones who are irrational, ignorant, unknowledgeable ...etc fall in the category of fathers only...?-\
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This already had been discussed before in detail, please look it up. All of your points are boring since they are old and already refuted before again and again.
Arnold
Chill out
can you tell me where so I can gain some valuable information from you ;D.
Otherwise, it is very clear that God called him by his Mother because he has no father. But if he had Father, as you claim (by the way you are the only human who ever said that nonsense to me), God would have called him by his father.
Mr. Arnold, you need to learn Arabic, Quran and Logic before claiming something that contradicts more than 5 Billion people?s Belief.
You need to understand that Miracles do exist, and the Quran supports them. Otherwise you are misleading people away from God?s Path.What are you talking about? Jesus in Arabic would be called Isa bin Miryam. Which means Jesus was called by his Mother's name! He is called so in the Qur'an. Where did you get this that calling someone after his Mother's name is a sin?
What theSalam
God called Jesus by his Mother because he had no Father. That was my argument.
Calling someone with his mother name, according to 33-5 is wrong (I should not say Sin), and that is why God never Called anybody in the Quran by his Mother name, except Jesus (PBUH). All countries use the Father Name and Grand Father Name to Call their Citizens, it is a Culture and Religious Habit." " Chapter 2170
Is this verse speaking about the fathers? Can we conclude, according to your understanding, that the ones who are irrational, ignorant, unknowledgeable ...etc fall in the category of fathers only...?Sorry I do not clearly understand your point.
But verse 33-5 says that we should call people with their Father name if we know who are their fathers, simple as that.
Please let me know if you understand it differently.For Verse 2-170, God is answering the people who are saying that they are following their Fathers Footsteps (Religious Teachings) even if the teachings are aginest Gods Teachings (The Books). Thus, them and their Fathers are Irrational, Ignorant, and Unknowledgeable.
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Mr. Arnold, you need to learn Arabic, Quran and Logic before claiming something that contradicts more than 5 Billion peoples Belief.
Peace,
Well till know it is me explaining Arabic to you )
And logic comes from science and reasoning not following the forefathers blindly )
And it is funny you mention the majority....
6116 (People will confront you with what the majority is doing.) Now if you pay heed to, or get intimidated by majority of those who live on
earth, they will lead you astray from Gods way. Most of the people follow nothing but conjecture and they only live by guesswork.I do hope the majority mankind will grow up someday, but God warns us they are and will never be the yardstick of truth...