BIG BIG BIG BIG SINFUL ACT!
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1178 And his nation came to him rushing disturbedly/hysterically/madly to him, and from before they were making/doing the sins/crimes, he said "You (my) nation those are my daughters, they are (F) purer for you, so fear and obey God and do not shame/scandalize/disgrace me in (front of) my guests, is (there) not from you a correctly/rightly guided man?"
1179
they said "You had (E) known (there) is not for us from (a) right in your daughters, and that you know (E) what we want."
What else would they want from (perceived) men, and why would Lut offer his daughter?
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Peace Kaiwai,
780 And Lot, he said to his people "Do you commit lewdness such as none of those of the worlds had done before?"
781 "You come to men with desire instead of women; you are a transgressing people."
782 The only response of his people was "Drive them out of your town; they are a people who wish to be pure!"To me it is pretty clear that the Scripture is against homosexual acts.
Again, depends on whether you consider homosexuality a conscious choice or a born trait. That will dictate how you view the scripture - where do you stand on the matter?
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The act is sinful.
But as to whether someone can be genetically homosexual, i don't know.
But the act of engaging in same-sex sex is sinful.Again, you fail to answer the question WHY IS IT SINFUL!
You first have to decide whether or not you consider it a conscious choice or an inbuilt trait. How you view that then dictates how you interpret the scripture.
Again, put down the Quran and use some damn reasoning and rationalism - I know its going to be a step in the unknown, but entertain the idea for a few minutes.
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Peace Kaiwai
I have no idea whether homosexuality is genetic or not, but I believe God always forbids things for very good reasons even if I do not know what it is.
201 T'.H'
202 We did not send down to you the Qur'an so you may suffer.
203 It is but a reminder for the one who takes heed.
204 Sent down from the One who created the Earth and the heavens above.
205 The Almighty, on the throne He settled.
206 To Him is what is in the heavens and what is in the Earth, and what is in between, and what is underneath the soil. -
Peace Kaiwai
I have no idea whether homosexuality is genetic or not, but I believe God always forbids things for very good reasons even if I do not know what it is.
201 T'.H'
202 We did not send down to you the Qur'an so you may suffer.
203 It is but a reminder for the one who takes heed.
204 Sent down from the One who created the Earth and the heavens above.
205 The Almighty, on the throne He settled.
206 To Him is what is in the heavens and what is in the Earth, and what is in between, and what is underneath the soil.And AGAIN you fail to address the question - is this what is passed off as moderation, "acceptance of all, except the persistant hatred of homosexuals" - great, and to think that this forum was actually filled with people who have grey matter between their ears.
The story of Lot is based on the result, not the crap in between. Want to know what Gods state of the matter is, look at WHY the city was destroyed, don't look at the build up because it s a waste of time. It tells nothing of the judgement and reason for the judgement. The reason for the judgment is as follows
"And leave what your lord has created for you, that is, your wives? 26166
In the phrase and the word [arabic[ (min) Min could be descriptive (which is translated above as 'that is if taken in the technical sense would mean that in order to satisfy your lust you go after homosexual men instead of your wives, whom Allah has given you to meet your natural urge"
So working backwards from the judgement made by God, the speech is directed at straight men, not homosexuals as demonstrated by the commentary. The issue at hand, therefore, is straight men who use homosexual men (in the passive role) to fulfill their lusts. So two things can come out of that. Firstly, that if you're straight the excuse 'any hole is a goal' is not an acceptable excuse to have homosexual sex. Secondly, that you shouldn't use others to fulfill your sexual desires.
The other possibility is that the letter 'Min' is used to mean from or 'out of'; then the meaning of the verse would be that it is a special part in the body of your wives which is created for the satisfaction of your natural urge. But you indulge in unnatural act with the, which is totally unlawful. This according to this second interpretation, it has been made clear that it is no permitted to have unnatural intercourse with one's wife.
We can there fore see that this final commentary refers to anal sex with a female. A female has a vagina for sexual intercourse, but the men choose to have anal sex instead.
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4115 And whoever is hostile to the messenger after the guidance has been made clear to him, and he follows other than the path of the believers; We will grant him what he has sought and deliver him to Hell; what a miserable destination.
4135 O you who believe, stand with justice as witnesses to God, even if against yourselves, or the parents or the relatives. Even if he be rich or poor, God is more worthy of them, so do not follow your desires from being just. And if you twist or turn away, then God is Expert over what you do.This is far more important than looking "tolerant" and "progressive". A soul is not given more than he/she can bear. So if you truly want to follow the scripture, it is not past your strength or ability. But everyone has the choice. And there is no compulsion in religion.
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Peace Kaiwai,
I take my guidance from the Quran. If something is clearly prohibited against in the Quran and I reject God's command, then I am following my own ego and not God's laws.
I agree with him and others. If it's written like that, it's written like that.
Just as I don't go around looking for reasons about why pork is forbidden.
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Peace to all,
Kaiwai, again, read what I said, I never said your evil and going to burn in hell, I said I believe its a sin, and only God will judge you , not me, I believe its a sin becuase it is against nature and Gods laws, I actually believe in God, and I actually believe he commands some things and forbids others, homosexuality is one of them, but since these are Gods rules i will try to live by them according to my conscience, and you by yours. If you think its ok to be gay then fine for you, but keep it private please. What do you say to those people that are pedophiles then, what if they say they were born with an atrraction to children and its not there fault, so should we al embrace the pedophiles and say we understand, just do whatever makes you happy, no we dont, we punish them. Or what do you thin about people that like to have sex with animals, do you think this is ok too, since theyre atrracted to animals and want to have sex wit them should we allow it? Please, why dont you use a little reason and try to control yourself and your urges, pray to God to help you.
Kurt
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kaiwai,
so its progressive to be gay? Did you notice the title of this post,, a BIG BIG BIG SIN, we should be trying to help people like brother Ammar who is reaching out for help since he feels he committed a sin and wants our advice,, dont hijack this thread and turn it into a gay rights issue, and dont attack the rest of us because we dont want to hear your queer stories, stick to the topic.
Kurt
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Peace Kaiwai,
What do you mean by progressive? Does progressive mean we try and twist the linguistics around to try and satisfy what we want and what we think is right (ie I know what is best, My reasoning and my logic is foolproof, I encompass everything with my knowledge and know all the factors on any given topic?)
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Peace to all,
Kaiwai, again, read what I said, I never said your evil and going to burn in hell, I said I believe its a sin, and only God will judge you , not me, I believe its a sin becuase it is against nature and Gods laws, I actually believe in God, and I actually believe he commands some things and forbids others, homosexuality is one of them, but since these are Gods rules i will try to live by them according to my conscience, and you by yours. If you think its ok to be gay then fine for you, but keep it private please. What do you say to those people that are pedophiles then, what if they say they were born with an atrraction to children and its not there fault, so should we al embrace the pedophiles and say we understand, just do whatever makes you happy, no we dont, we punish them. Or what do you thin about people that like to have sex with animals, do you think this is ok too, since theyre atrracted to animals and want to have sex wit them should we allow it? Please, why dont you use a little reason and try to control yourself and your urges, pray to God to help you.
Kurt
Oh f***ing hell, not this again; my attraction to members of the same sex has nothing to do with pedophilia. How dare you equate me with pedophile, you disgusting perverted creature. How dare you compare me to a person who destroys the lives of innocent children and whose only lust is sexual gratification. How dare you.
My homosexuality doesn't enter into the same ball park; I have sex with people whom of a consenting age (interesting enough I prefer guys who are older than me), I am attracted to masculinity - none of those things have anything to do with pedophilia.
The issue I have with you is YOUR demand that YOUR interpretation holds more credence than mine - I don't make such a statement. I simply state that this is how I view it, but who is right and who is wrong, I'll leave that up to God. As long as YOU accept like I do, that we are falliable humans, subject to mistakes, I see nothing wrong with you holding a different view than I.
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Peace Kaiwai
Again, depends on whether you consider homosexuality a conscious choice or a born trait. That will dictate how you view the scripture - where do you stand on the matter?
If you follow the quran the quran propounds that men and women marry and that otherwise adultery and fornication is forbidden. If marriage is between a man and a woman how do you condone homosexuality? Fornication and adultery are forbidden. Two men cannot get married according to the quran, nor two women.
Joe
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Peace Kaiwai
are there any progressive muslims here or have a I fallen into Saudi Arabia?
The idea is to understand the quran according to it's meaning, not our own impressed meaning onto it. Therefore unlike Traditional muslims, where there is no structure for a 5 time daily prayer as they have in the quran, salaat is NOT that. We are to burn the chaff, not add on things to the quran like other people have done. If you do not agree with the quran on this issue than you have that right and I see that you do not believe in the quran. This forum is for people to learn what the quran teaches.
Joe
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Peace Kaiwai
The idea is to understand the quran according to it's meaning, not our own impressed meaning onto it. Therefore unlike Traditional muslims, where there is no structure for a 5 time daily prayer as they have in the quran, salaat is NOT that. We are to burn the chaff, not add on things to the quran like other people have done. If you do not agree with the quran on this issue than you have that right and I see that you do not believe in the quran. This forum is for people to learn what the quran teaches.
Joe
And again, that is YOUR interpretation. May I suggest that you stop being so arrogant.
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Yes but for some strange reason it attracts people who don't even want to follow it brickwall
Perhaps we should change the name into Ultraliteralist Muslims or something like that.