BIG BIG BIG BIG SINFUL ACT!
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Actually, it does do harm, if we're going to be explicit. A lot of people carry the HIV virus without knowing it, for starters, and if I remember correctly it typically resides in the anal canal, and most bodily fluids. Regardless of that, penetration does actually weaken the lining and will more or less open the way for STDs to be transmitted.
Promiscuity does definitely harm people, there is no way out of that. And it is morally reproachable.
I'm talking about homosexuality, not promiscuity. Heterosexuals can have anal sex as well.
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Peace Lobstor
2371 And if the truth were to follow their desires, then the heavens and the Earth and all who are in them would have been corrupted. No, We have come to them with their reminder, but from their reminder they are turning away.
Everyone wants different things. So that argument doesn't hold weight in reality. Only if everyone were clones would you be able to base morality on that rule.
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No, as a personal rule, you shouldn't do things to other you don't want others doing to you. If I don't want people lying to me, I try not to do that to others. It doesn't mean lying is always wrong, and I'm not basing morality on this rule, but it works if people follow it.
Morality is very complicated, and I guess a simple way to put it would be that you SHOULD do the things that benefit people the most, and avoid doing the things that harm people. -
No, as a personal rule, you shouldn't do things to other you don't want others doing to you. If I don't want people lying to me, I try not to do that to others. It doesn't mean lying is always wrong, and I'm not basing morality on this rule, but it works if people follow it.
Morality is very complicated, and I guess a simple way to put it would be that you SHOULD do the things that benefit people the most, and avoid doing the things that harm people.Peace Lobster,
I get where your coming from. Consider this... even pedophiles justify their acts (they say that the children where seducing them!). And they don't think it is harming anyone. They believe it is benefiting them as well as the child. Not all people are rational and have good moral standards and people can justify almost anything they want. But the reality is if the universe were run by people or chance, chaos would ensue. Think about this, if 1 million chimpanzees were mixing chemicals over the course of a billion years, could they create anything let alone the universe? How then can such a complex thing as the universe arise if it were the work of many powers all desiring different outcomes? The only way is if it follows 1 law. So if the universe follows the law of the creator, why don't we humans have to? Especially when guidance has come down to us482 Do they not reflect on the Qur'an? If it was from any other than God they would have found it very different.
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Peace Lobster,
I get where your coming from. Consider this... even pedophiles justify their acts (they say that the children where seducing them!). And they don't think it is harming anyone. They believe it is benefiting them as well as the child. Not all people are rational and have good moral standards and people can justify almost anything they want. But the reality is if the universe were run by people or chance, chaos would ensue. Think about this, if 1 million chimpanzees were mixing chemicals over the course of a billion years, could they create anything let alone the universe? How then can such a complex thing as the universe arise if it were the work of many powers all desiring different outcomes? The only way is if it follows 1 law. So if the universe follows the law of the creator, why don't we humans have to? Especially when guidance has come down to us482 Do they not reflect on the Qur'an? If it was from any other than God they would have found it very different.
It doesn't matter what people say or think, but what actually is. Sex with children is bad, regardless of what pedophiles think.
And morality and religion are independent. Morality doesn't exist because of religion.But what's "benefit" and what is "harm?"
Well I guess benefit would be something that leaves you in a better state than you were before, and harm does the opposite. What does the dictionary say?
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It doesn't matter what people say or think, but what actually is. Sex with children is bad, regardless of what pedophiles think.
You could say, Homosexuality is bad, no matter what gays thing. A few decades ago sex outside marriage was bad. So whats to say in a few years pedophilia becomes accepted. What people think changes, so its not a good metre by which to base your moral laws.
And morality and religion are independent. Morality doesn't exist because of religion.Well I guess benefit would be something that leaves you in a better state than you were before, and harm does the opposite. What does the dictionary say?
Are you saying there is a universal law that everyone innately knows about and follows? I don't understand what your getting at. I thought most athiests follow survival of the fittest?
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Lobster, i agree with you about not doing something that is harmful.
Condoning gay sex is against God's rule, and to go against our Creator, there will be punishment/harm.
So, conclusion, gay sex is harmful, --> morally wrong.Seems like we have to get back to God.
Interesting. -
You could say, Homosexuality is bad, no matter what gays thing. A few decades ago sex outside marriage was bad. So whats to say in a few years pedophilia becomes accepted. What people think changes, so its not a good metre by which to base your moral laws.
Are you saying there is a universal law that everyone innately knows about and follows? I don't understand what your getting at. I thought most athiests follow survival of the fittest?
Sex outside of marriage isn't bad. Marriage is just a superficial ritual which doesn't mean anything. Sex between two people who are not committed to each other is bad, and it always will be, regardless of what society thinks. The Aztecs thought human sacrifice was absolutely wonderful, but that doesn't mean it was right. Killing was wrong then and it's wrong now, and it always will be wrong, even if people think it's ok to kill.
Athiests have morals.
Morality is reached through reason, not through religion.
Let's say God decided what is right and wrong, then how do we know which voice of God is the true one? There are so many religions, which one is telling the truth? There has to be an independent standard by which you judge them to know which is true and which is false.
There are many people who don't believe in God or religion yet live moral lives.
Considering the above points, I think it's pretty obvious that religion doesn't create morals, it only directs us toward them. -
Lobster, i agree with you about not doing something that is harmful.
Condoning gay sex is against God's rule, and to go against our Creator, there will be punishment/harm.
So, conclusion, gay sex is harmful, --> morally wrong.Seems like we have to get back to God.
Interesting.Why is it against God's rules if it doesn't harm anyone?
There has to be a reason why God forbids something, if there is no reason, then most probably God didn't prohibit it in the first place.
We don't have to get back to God. We need to see how our world works and decide our morals based on that.God has created reality, and morality reflects that reality.
It is wrong to shoot people in the face because if you do that, they will die.
But what if our reality was different? Let's say our faces were made of bullet proof metal...then shooting people in the face wouldn't be so bad, would it? Maybe people would make a sport out of it. -
Peace to all,
LObster, why do you use harm as your moral guidepost, God has created everything, even the universe, and it harms people all the time, we have earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, etc, all of which were created by God and which kill people, even kind and innocent people. But we are to be judged based on what good deeds we do, so it should be doing good and not just not harming that is the basis for any moral judgement.
Just because gay sex may not physically harm you or others that consent, that doesnt mean its good, or that its good for society, or that it follows Gods laws that he wired into creation.
Kurt
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Peace Lobster
I think homosexuality is harmful (to the human race) because it is a crooked practice to that which God has intended for mankind . I see it crooked by looking at it on more than an individual basis. Imagine that it is totally common and than we are the benefactors of the withering of our own race. One may find a loving partner in someone of the same sex, one may be happy, comfortable with that person, and they may have the same problems as a heterosexual couple for the most part. In the grander scheme of things the human race cannot be cultivated through such unions, perhaps an unholy union. It is the caricature of the right thing to do.
Joe
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Right or wrong is decided based on our experience, It takes a lot of time to decide if some deeds are really wrong and bad for the society as a whole or to the individual. for ex does driving our car does any harm to others around, yes, its polluting the environment. so I think we need to wait and watch until something harmfull happens resulting in same sex , may be some deadly new species comes out of man+man ),
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I am a little curious. Where in the Quran, exactly, is homosexual behaviour between two females condemned. I have seen that Lot's story points to men, which is not surprising since oral and anal sex cause their own special problems, oral cancer and blood poisoning respectively, among other things. If something isn't forbidden in the Quran, it is allowed, in my opinion. Since lesbianism isn't forbidden explicitly anywhere, where is the justification for lumping it with the behaviour of gay men.
I would really like to know the Quran's ruling on this, so please reply to this. -
I am a little curious. Where in the Quran, exactly, is homosexual behaviour between two females condemned. I have seen that Lot's story points to men, which is not surprising since oral and anal sex cause their own special problems, oral cancer and blood poisoning respectively, among other things. If something isn't forbidden in the Quran, it is allowed, in my opinion. Since lesbianism isn't forbidden explicitly anywhere, where is the justification for lumping it with the behaviour of gay men.
I would really like to know the Quran's ruling on this, so please reply to this.Hi Sarah
I am a little curious. Where in the Quran does it say that all these things below are condemned
- Cloning human-beings
- Making nuclear-bombs
- 100 year old man marrying an 18 year old girl.
Its all about common sense, it is easy to see what is evil or go against our nature. Not every rule must be written in the quran. Thats what the supporters of hadith likes. They want to know with which hand they should eat their food, how to exactly do wudu, with which foot they should walk into the toilet, which colors they are allowed to wear on their clothes etc...
Conclusion The things that are not in the quran should be understood through reason, and common sense.
Peace,
David