BIG BIG BIG BIG SINFUL ACT!
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You could say, Homosexuality is bad, no matter what gays thing. A few decades ago sex outside marriage was bad. So whats to say in a few years pedophilia becomes accepted. What people think changes, so its not a good metre by which to base your moral laws.
Are you saying there is a universal law that everyone innately knows about and follows? I don't understand what your getting at. I thought most athiests follow survival of the fittest?
Sex outside of marriage isn't bad. Marriage is just a superficial ritual which doesn't mean anything. Sex between two people who are not committed to each other is bad, and it always will be, regardless of what society thinks. The Aztecs thought human sacrifice was absolutely wonderful, but that doesn't mean it was right. Killing was wrong then and it's wrong now, and it always will be wrong, even if people think it's ok to kill.
Athiests have morals.
Morality is reached through reason, not through religion.
Let's say God decided what is right and wrong, then how do we know which voice of God is the true one? There are so many religions, which one is telling the truth? There has to be an independent standard by which you judge them to know which is true and which is false.
There are many people who don't believe in God or religion yet live moral lives.
Considering the above points, I think it's pretty obvious that religion doesn't create morals, it only directs us toward them. -
Lobster, i agree with you about not doing something that is harmful.
Condoning gay sex is against God's rule, and to go against our Creator, there will be punishment/harm.
So, conclusion, gay sex is harmful, --> morally wrong.Seems like we have to get back to God.
Interesting.Why is it against God's rules if it doesn't harm anyone?
There has to be a reason why God forbids something, if there is no reason, then most probably God didn't prohibit it in the first place.
We don't have to get back to God. We need to see how our world works and decide our morals based on that.God has created reality, and morality reflects that reality.
It is wrong to shoot people in the face because if you do that, they will die.
But what if our reality was different? Let's say our faces were made of bullet proof metal...then shooting people in the face wouldn't be so bad, would it? Maybe people would make a sport out of it. -
Peace to all,
LObster, why do you use harm as your moral guidepost, God has created everything, even the universe, and it harms people all the time, we have earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, etc, all of which were created by God and which kill people, even kind and innocent people. But we are to be judged based on what good deeds we do, so it should be doing good and not just not harming that is the basis for any moral judgement.
Just because gay sex may not physically harm you or others that consent, that doesnt mean its good, or that its good for society, or that it follows Gods laws that he wired into creation.
Kurt
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Peace Lobster
I think homosexuality is harmful (to the human race) because it is a crooked practice to that which God has intended for mankind . I see it crooked by looking at it on more than an individual basis. Imagine that it is totally common and than we are the benefactors of the withering of our own race. One may find a loving partner in someone of the same sex, one may be happy, comfortable with that person, and they may have the same problems as a heterosexual couple for the most part. In the grander scheme of things the human race cannot be cultivated through such unions, perhaps an unholy union. It is the caricature of the right thing to do.
Joe
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Right or wrong is decided based on our experience, It takes a lot of time to decide if some deeds are really wrong and bad for the society as a whole or to the individual. for ex does driving our car does any harm to others around, yes, its polluting the environment. so I think we need to wait and watch until something harmfull happens resulting in same sex , may be some deadly new species comes out of man+man ),
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I am a little curious. Where in the Quran, exactly, is homosexual behaviour between two females condemned. I have seen that Lot's story points to men, which is not surprising since oral and anal sex cause their own special problems, oral cancer and blood poisoning respectively, among other things. If something isn't forbidden in the Quran, it is allowed, in my opinion. Since lesbianism isn't forbidden explicitly anywhere, where is the justification for lumping it with the behaviour of gay men.
I would really like to know the Quran's ruling on this, so please reply to this. -
I am a little curious. Where in the Quran, exactly, is homosexual behaviour between two females condemned. I have seen that Lot's story points to men, which is not surprising since oral and anal sex cause their own special problems, oral cancer and blood poisoning respectively, among other things. If something isn't forbidden in the Quran, it is allowed, in my opinion. Since lesbianism isn't forbidden explicitly anywhere, where is the justification for lumping it with the behaviour of gay men.
I would really like to know the Quran's ruling on this, so please reply to this.Hi Sarah
I am a little curious. Where in the Quran does it say that all these things below are condemned
- Cloning human-beings
- Making nuclear-bombs
- 100 year old man marrying an 18 year old girl.
Its all about common sense, it is easy to see what is evil or go against our nature. Not every rule must be written in the quran. Thats what the supporters of hadith likes. They want to know with which hand they should eat their food, how to exactly do wudu, with which foot they should walk into the toilet, which colors they are allowed to wear on their clothes etc...
Conclusion The things that are not in the quran should be understood through reason, and common sense.
Peace,
David -
I am a little curious. Where in the Quran, exactly, is homosexual behaviour between two females condemned. I have seen that Lot's story points to men, which is not surprising since oral and anal sex cause their own special problems, oral cancer and blood poisoning respectively, among other things. If something isn't forbidden in the Quran, it is allowed, in my opinion. Since lesbianism isn't forbidden explicitly anywhere, where is the justification for lumping it with the behaviour of gay men.
I would really like to know the Quran's ruling on this, so please reply to this.Isn't one ignoring all the possible problems with heterosexual sex? the unwanted pregnancies, the lack of funds to properly look after the child, the lack of planning by parents these days (then expecting the tax payer to fund their lifestyle choice), then there is the possibility of the child becoming a criminal liability on society (more money down the drain). To put everything into heterosexual = good, homosexual = bad, is pretty simplistic.
As for a previous post regarding homosexuality - stop acting like a child running around going, "eww, he has cooties! I might get gay off him!" - you're either gay or straight, people don't choose to be gay or straight, no matter how much pratts on this forum would like to think otherwise. For every one 'depraved faggot' some where would like to point out, I can point out at least two dozen heterosexual couples who are liabilities on society.
PS. Case in point, look at the statistics in New Zealand for 'working for families'; 'depraved faggots' like me are subsidising half the nation because half the nation choose not to take precautions and plan their families.
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I am a little curious. Where in the Quran, exactly, is homosexual behaviour between two females condemned. I have seen that Lot's story points to men, which is not surprising since oral and anal sex cause their own special problems, oral cancer and blood poisoning respectively, among other things. If something isn't forbidden in the Quran, it is allowed, in my opinion. Since lesbianism isn't forbidden explicitly anywhere, where is the justification for lumping it with the behaviour of gay men.
I would really like to know the Quran's ruling on this, so please reply to this.415, QED.
Hi Sarah
I am a little curious. Where in the Quran does it say that all these things below are condemned
- Cloning human-beings
- Making nuclear-bombs
- 100 year old man marrying an 18 year old girl.
Its all about common sense, it is easy to see what is evil or go against our nature. Not every rule must be written in the quran. Thats what the supporters of hadith likes. They want to know with which hand they should eat their food, how to exactly do wudu, with which foot they should walk into the toilet, which colors they are allowed to wear on their clothes etc...
Conclusion The things that are not in the quran should be understood through reason, and common sense.
Peace,
David1.) would go into "messing with God's creation", there is a verse against that (not necessarily forbidding it but definitely warning against it)
Isn't one ignoring all the possible problems with heterosexual sex? the unwanted pregnancies, the lack of funds to properly look after the child, the lack of planning by parents these days (then expecting the tax payer to fund their lifestyle choice), then there is the possibility of the child becoming a criminal liability on society (more money down the drain). To put everything into heterosexual = good, homosexual = bad, is pretty simplistic.
As for a previous post regarding homosexuality - stop acting like a child running around going, "eww, he has cooties! I might get gay off him!" - you're either gay or straight, people don't choose to be gay or straight, no matter how much pratts on this forum would like to think otherwise. For every one 'depraved faggot' some where would like to point out, I can point out at least two dozen heterosexual couples who are liabilities on society.
Those "problems" are a result of promiscuity, not heterosexual sex. The lack of funds to properly look after the child? Not if you're in the UK. The lack of planning of parents - that can't be solved without major reform. It doesn't happen so much in "muslim" communities, does it? The possibility of a child becoming a criminal? Maybe the earth will explode as a result of heterosexuals. It still provides no case for homosexuality.
Quranically - if you're gay, keep it to yourself or be punished. Likewise for heterosexuals.
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Those "problems" are a result of promiscuity, not heterosexual sex. The lack of funds to properly look after the child? Not if you're in the UK. The lack of planning of parents - that can't be solved without major reform. It doesn't happen so much in "muslim" communities, does it? The possibility of a child becoming a criminal? ) Maybe the earth will explode as a result of heterosexuals. It still provides no case for homosexuality.
Quranically - if you're gay, keep it to yourself or be punished. Likewise for heterosexuals.
Promiscuity - what the hell are you on about?
It does happen in Muslim communities, people having too many bloody children they can't afford to bloody feed (whilst married) then expecting ME, Joe Homo, the one whom they hate with a vicious vengeance, and would love to see stoned to death, subsidise their lifestyle of debauchery.
I'm sorry, but you can crap on about promiscuity till the cows come home, but until you heterosexuals collectively get your house in order, and stop expecting me to pay for your lifestyle choice of having more kids than you can afford, I'll keep living my depraved life thank you very much. Whilst we're at it, maybe we can construct a list of things you can't use because a gay was involved in the production some where - just to ensure that your home hasn't be 'ruined' by the stench of homosexuality.
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Peace to all,
LObster, why do you use harm as your moral guidepost, God has created everything, even the universe, and it harms people all the time, we have earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, etc, all of which were created by God and which kill people, even kind and innocent people. But we are to be judged based on what good deeds we do, so it should be doing good and not just not harming that is the basis for any moral judgement.
Just because gay sex may not physically harm you or others that consent, that doesnt mean its good, or that its good for society, or that it follows Gods laws that he wired into creation.
Kurt
peace
Yes, earthquakes harm people, but they are no one's fault. Nothing to do with morality.
And I'm not just talking about physical harm, here.
There are things that are Right (that should be done), things that are wrong (that should not be done), and things that are neutral (you dont have to do them but they are not wrong).
Sitting on the ground instead of chairs is morally acceptable (neutral)/
Sitting on the ground so an elderly woman can sit on the chair is the right thing to do.
Sitting on the chair while the elderly woman sits on the ground is wrong.
Think about it, what makes the last action wrong? What makes the second one right? -
Peace Lobster
I think homosexuality is harmful (to the human race) because it is a crooked practice to that which God has intended for mankind . I see it crooked by looking at it on more than an individual basis. Imagine that it is totally common and than we are the benefactors of the withering of our own race. One may find a loving partner in someone of the same sex, one may be happy, comfortable with that person, and they may have the same problems as a heterosexual couple for the most part. In the grander scheme of things the human race cannot be cultivated through such unions, perhaps an unholy union. It is the caricature of the right thing to do.
Joe
peace Joe
So you are saying that homosexuality is wrong because it is unnatural?
Aren't there other things which are unnatural but are okay to do? Isn't medical surgery unnatural? -
peace Joe
So you are saying that homosexuality is wrong because it is unnatural?
Aren't there other things which are unnatural but are okay to do? Isn't medical surgery unnatural?Peace Lobster
I think homosexuality is harmful (to the human race) because it is a crooked practice to that which God has intended for mankind . I see it crooked by looking at it on more than an individual basis. Imagine that it is totally common and than we are the benefactors of the withering of our own race. One may find a loving partner in someone of the same sex, one may be happy, comfortable with that person, and they may have the same problems as a heterosexual couple for the most part. In the grander scheme of things the human race cannot be cultivated through such unions, perhaps an unholy union. It is the caricature of the right thing to do.
Joe
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Promiscuity - what the hell are you on about?
It does happen in Muslim communities, people having too many bloody children they can't afford to bloody feed (whilst married) then expecting ME, Joe Homo, the one whom they hate with a vicious vengeance, and would love to see stoned to death, subsidise their lifestyle of debauchery.
I'm sorry, but you can crap on about promiscuity till the cows come home, but until you heterosexuals collectively get your house in order, and stop expecting me to pay for your lifestyle choice of having more kids than you can afford, I'll keep living my depraved life thank you very much. Whilst we're at it, maybe we can construct a list of things you can't use because a gay was involved in the production some where - just to ensure that your home hasn't be 'ruined' by the stench of homosexuality.
In a controlled study 67.5% of 200 homosexual men but only 16% of 100 heterosexual men were found to be infected with intestinal parasites. Entamoeba histolytica was isolated from 27% of the homosexual and 1% of the heterosexual men, and Giardia lamblia was isolated from 13% of the homosexual and 3% of the heterosexual men. The presence of symptoms could not be correlated with infection except when the infection was caused by more than one organism, including G. lamblia. Symptoms were much more common in both infected and uninfected homosexuals than in heterosexuals. Among the homosexual men recent foreign travel, living in a homosexual household and promiscuity were not correlated with intestinal parasitic infection, but cleansing of the anus before and sex was associated with a significantly lower prevalence of infection. These findings suggest that the male homosexual community may be an important reservoir of potentially pathogenic protozoa.
Zing! That's promiscuity.
Your excuse for homosexuality is as follows "I pay taxes". Well, so do I. That doesn't entitle me to go shag a cow. (here, is an analogy, and no, we are not talking about the finer details of shagging cows, such as consent)
Where is your proof that "heterosexuals have more kids than they can afford AND expect homosexuals to pay for it"? Chances are, the people having more kids than they can afford a.) pay for it themselves and get in debt or b.) leech of the state and get paid by everyone, no discrimination involved or c.) die off from starvation.
You can keep jamming as many strawman arguments as you like, it won't change a thing.
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Well I say that's not what God has intended. How do you counter that argument?
Oh please. Do substantiate your comments because at the moment they have as much credibility as Bukhari.
532 - SHAKIR For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.
Surgery on healthy tissue IS unnatural.