Verse About Hitting Women
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True, but it depends on how fast they go through those steps. It reminds me of the Simpsons who went through the steps of grieving in 5 minutes.
Salaam
How long do you think would it take to seperate beds.... and in taking these two steps how could an angry man maintain his anger? We are not talking about the Simpsons but of one person burning with rage and another the victim. This verse is preventing a man from losing his self control.
if they think it means "beat" that is. Hmmm...
Wakas it is important that we ponder upon the first two steps before deliberating on the meaning of later part as this is a vital Verse. I would ask alll those men, guilty of violence aganist women, if they follwed even one of the above steps before raising a hand.
No way this is a permission to hit a woman; rather the opposite. -
Salaam
How long do you think would it take to seperate beds.... and in taking these two steps how could an angry man maintain his anger? We are not talking about the Simpsons but of one person burning with rage and another the victim. This verse is preventing a man from losing his self control.
Pardon, I don't know what you're fixated on the Simpsons. The Simpsons remark was a tongue 'n cheek poke at the fact that you can have all the steps in the world but men will find some way of getting through that 'process' as fast as they want. Even putting the word 'beat' gives the person 'legitimacy' when they claim that what the wife did was so bad he justifies that he can jump straight to beat and skip those steps. The best way to avoid it, is to get rid of it - then it has no legitimacy.
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Pardon, I don't know what you're fixated on the Simpsons. The Simpsons remark was a tongue 'n cheek poke at the fact that you can have all the steps in the world but men will find some way of getting through that 'process' as fast as they want.
Salaam
Of course I understood your light-hearted remark but domestic violence is a very serious issue and men as well women should pay serious attention to this surah.
As for men who have been skipping the first two steps they should be challenged and punished for not following the procedure. How about twenty lashes for skipping the first step and ten for skipping the second step?
This matter should be discussed in all Islamic forums so that some sort of penalty may be imposed on those who abuse this procedure. As for the third step many scholars refuse to accept that it means separation according to their understanding of the language. So I would campaign a penalty for skipping the procedure. hmmEven putting the word 'beat' gives the person 'legitimacy' when they claim that what the wife did was so bad he justifies that he can jump straight to beat and skip those steps. The best way to avoid it, is to get rid of it - then it has no legitimacy.
No matter how often men are told not to hit women it seems to make no difference. Beating of women goes on in all sections of society; Muslims or non Muslims, white or non-white, educated or uneducated. This is the exercise of brute force, often associated with the woman failing to do what?s expected. In other words rebellious behaviour on the part of the woman, resulting in the man losing his temper and, hitting without delay. Typically the man afterward becomes apologetic and loving and it becomes a pattern for the man a cycle repeated over and over, as there is no intention of divorce here.
peace
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Are they in fact, steps?
Why does the woman lose every time anyway?
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Are they in fact, steps?
Why does the woman lose every time anyway?
Women don't always lose (there are good guys ... ;D) and it?s NOT a step approach rather an attitude...
434?so advise/warn them (F) and desert/abandon them (F) in the place of lying down (beds), and ignore/disregard/push them (F)?
Basically, go on a sex strike ?and show/set forth/leave them? (waidriboohunna). peace
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Salam,
Respectfully.God The Most Just, The Most Wise, knows best but i think that women are more talkative then men, so, we should talk to them.
I have spoken to many women and they are much smarter then my former employers with degrees in business and economics.I have spoken to 2 girls who work on the streets and talking to them was more educating and i got more by talking to them about reality of the life and religion then all the sunnis here in this community who want me dead. Did i mention that my 4th former employer threatned to kill me, to throw me out of the window? I have a witness.
Have i mentioned that my 5th ex-boss put a hatchet under my throat in front of other kitchen staff and his wife? Guess i forgot, just like police officer who told me to not say this to anyone ....I will pray to Allah, my Creator Who has guided my right, glory be to God and i am grateful to all the good things and abilities He, The Most Merciful, has given me.
Peace.
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Women don't always lose (there are good guys ... ;D) and it?s NOT a step approach rather an attitude...
434?so advise/warn them (F) and desert/abandon them (F) in the place of lying down (beds), and ignore/disregard/push them (F)?
Basically, go on a sex strike ?and show/set forth/leave them? (waidriboohunna). peace
Salaam
Basically man is not allowed to lose his self control or on a spur of the momental rage raise his hand on a woman.
As causes of domestic violence are perceived disobedience on the part of the woman, even minimal provocations, such as failing to put enough salt in the food can trigger this rage.
To me this verse is dealing provacation and sudden loss of self control resulting in voilence
peace -
Salaam
Of course I understood your light-hearted remark but domestic violence is a very serious issue and men as well women should pay serious attention to this surah.
As for men who have been skipping the first two steps they should be challenged and punished for not following the procedure. How about twenty lashes for skipping the first step and ten for skipping the second step?
This matter should be discussed in all Islamic forums so that some sort of penalty may be imposed on those who abuse this procedure. As for the third step many scholars refuse to accept that it means separation according to their understanding of the language. So I would campaign a penalty for skipping the procedure. hmmNo matter how often men are told not to hit women it seems to make no difference. Beating of women goes on in all sections of society; Muslims or non Muslims, white or non-white, educated or uneducated. This is the exercise of brute force, often associated with the woman failing to do what?s expected. In other words rebellious behaviour on the part of the woman, resulting in the man losing his temper and, hitting without delay. Typically the man afterward becomes apologetic and loving and it becomes a pattern for the man a cycle repeated over and over, as there is no intention of divorce here.peace
Yet another example of the ignorance of LAW
Saudi Arabia Woman appeals to Governor for help in getting her divorce
19-03-2008
By Hayat Al-Ghamdi
ABHA, Saudi Arabia, (Arab News) A woman in her 50s from the southern town of Khamis Mushayt is appealing to the region?s governor to intervene to break off her marriage to a man she says has abused her on numerous occasions.
?I have no option but to seek the mercy of the governor after the Shariah court rejected my plea for divorce from my husband who had been torturing me both mentally and physically,? Um Hassan told Arab News yesterday.
The woman claims the judge told her that her only option was ?khula,? a form of divorce initiated by women that requires them to reimburse dowry paid to them by their husbands at the time of marriage.
But Um Hassan says that she has given the best years of her life to her husband and shouldn?t have to pay him anything now that he considers her past her prime.
?I told the judge ?why should I return the dowry while my husband enjoyed all my youth and now that I am old he throws me away as a worn-out piece of cloth?? It is my right that he protect me or divorce me honorably,? she said.
Um Hassan is currently living with her elderly mother and her husband has not allowed her to see her two daughters since she ran away from him eight months ago. The judge declined her request to see her girls, saying she?ll just have to wait until they?ve grown up and have been married. Um Hassan has a son, too, but she says he is also abusive.
Um Hassan claims that she fled because her husband would beat her. She claims that one of her daughters threatened suicide because of the domestic abuse erupting around her. When she went to the police, she was told that the police could do nothing because she was a woman coming to them without her mahram ? her legal male guardian, who is the same person from whom she was seeking protection.
The police, she said, simply told her she had to go directly to the Board of Investigations and Prosecution, the Saudi equivalent of a district attorney?s office.
Hadi Al-Yami, a legal analyst for the governmental Human Rights Commission in Asir, said the commission could not help her until the system to which she is appealing fails to deliver her rights.
?We can help her only if the regulations are not implemented by the authorities or orders are violated,? he said.
Al-Yami said that under Saudi law a woman must complain within three days of the abuse for the case to be valid. He also said that she doesn?t have automatic custody rights because her girls are above seven. In custody disputes, Saudi family law heavily favors fathers once children are over seven years old.
Regarding the unwillingness by the police to help, Al-Yami told Arab News that the cops could not assist with women?s complaints without the women being accompanied by their official male guardian. And in the case where the problem arises with the guardian, the woman must go to higher ups to seek reprieve, which could involve a Shariah court taking custody of her, even in the case of a woman in her 50s.
http//www.arabnews.com/?
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God The Most Just, The Most Wise, knows best...
Here's a thought; the Qur'an is not God's words - they are Muhammad's.
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Here's a thought; the Qur'an is not God's words - they are Muhammad's.
Peace
A challenge from God; If you doubt that the words of quran are God's word, then bring a chapter like it
223 And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.
If all humans and the jinn helped eacother, they couldn't write a Quran. And Muhammed was a human so he could not have written the Quran without inspiration/revelation from God
1788 Say "If all the humans and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Qur'an like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another."
The Quran could not have been a human beings words (Muhammed). Quran contains advanced science that could not have been understood at the time period that Muhammed was living, because he did not had the instrument for this advanced scientific observation. Therefore the words he wrote must have been divine inspirations from an higher power. And that higher power, is God.
The Quran contains advanced science that scientist of our time period has not discovered yet
http//www.scienceinquran.com/CREATION%20PHENOMENA.htm
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Here's a thought; the Qur'an is not God's words - they are Muhammad's.
As someone who spent years reading "philosophy", "new age", "budhism" etc. I can assure you I was very taken aback by the way the Quran was written. And the only way you can prove to me that it was the words of a man. Is to write a book that is just as amazing.
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Here's a thought; the Qur'an is not God's words - they are Muhammad's.
So what? Is there a point there?
You clearly seems to have an agenda. If you don't like what the quran says why not just ignore it? Instead of trying to cherry pick awful translations to make your preconceived points.
2849 Say "Then bring forth a book from God that is better in guidance so I may follow it, if you are truthful."
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The challenge to bring something better or like the Qur'an is totally subjective.
Personally I find Plato's Republic (amongst many others) better than the Qur'an.
I see nothing special about the Qur'an.
Some bits are beautiful - other bits dull - and still other bits make me cringe.
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Peace all,
The Quran is a reminder. We were all born with innate knowledge of right from wrong, according to the Quran, and some new exciting experiments by psychologists on babies. If someone finds that something other than the Quran helps them reach these values and attain those morals, then there is nothing wrong with pursuing that path. It is better than to mindlessly go around thinking that "I believe in the Quran" without benefitting a bit from its content.
Nadeem
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The challenge to bring something better or like the Qur'an is totally subjective.
Personally I find Plato's Republic (amongst many others) better than the Qur'an.
I see nothing special about the Qur'an.
Some bits are beautiful - other bits dull - and still other bits make me cringe.
And? You missed the point. Instead of spreading hate, you should either find a better book or write one yourself.
Good for you.
Now you have studied the quran extensively IN ITS LANGUAGE to come to your conclusions, no?
