Verse About Hitting Women
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Women don't always lose (there are good guys ... ;D) and it?s NOT a step approach rather an attitude...
434?so advise/warn them (F) and desert/abandon them (F) in the place of lying down (beds), and ignore/disregard/push them (F)?
Basically, go on a sex strike ?and show/set forth/leave them? (waidriboohunna). peace
Salaam
Basically man is not allowed to lose his self control or on a spur of the momental rage raise his hand on a woman.
As causes of domestic violence are perceived disobedience on the part of the woman, even minimal provocations, such as failing to put enough salt in the food can trigger this rage.
To me this verse is dealing provacation and sudden loss of self control resulting in voilence
peace -
Salaam
Of course I understood your light-hearted remark but domestic violence is a very serious issue and men as well women should pay serious attention to this surah.
As for men who have been skipping the first two steps they should be challenged and punished for not following the procedure. How about twenty lashes for skipping the first step and ten for skipping the second step?
This matter should be discussed in all Islamic forums so that some sort of penalty may be imposed on those who abuse this procedure. As for the third step many scholars refuse to accept that it means separation according to their understanding of the language. So I would campaign a penalty for skipping the procedure. hmmNo matter how often men are told not to hit women it seems to make no difference. Beating of women goes on in all sections of society; Muslims or non Muslims, white or non-white, educated or uneducated. This is the exercise of brute force, often associated with the woman failing to do what?s expected. In other words rebellious behaviour on the part of the woman, resulting in the man losing his temper and, hitting without delay. Typically the man afterward becomes apologetic and loving and it becomes a pattern for the man a cycle repeated over and over, as there is no intention of divorce here.peace
Yet another example of the ignorance of LAW
Saudi Arabia Woman appeals to Governor for help in getting her divorce
19-03-2008
By Hayat Al-Ghamdi
ABHA, Saudi Arabia, (Arab News) A woman in her 50s from the southern town of Khamis Mushayt is appealing to the region?s governor to intervene to break off her marriage to a man she says has abused her on numerous occasions.
?I have no option but to seek the mercy of the governor after the Shariah court rejected my plea for divorce from my husband who had been torturing me both mentally and physically,? Um Hassan told Arab News yesterday.
The woman claims the judge told her that her only option was ?khula,? a form of divorce initiated by women that requires them to reimburse dowry paid to them by their husbands at the time of marriage.
But Um Hassan says that she has given the best years of her life to her husband and shouldn?t have to pay him anything now that he considers her past her prime.
?I told the judge ?why should I return the dowry while my husband enjoyed all my youth and now that I am old he throws me away as a worn-out piece of cloth?? It is my right that he protect me or divorce me honorably,? she said.
Um Hassan is currently living with her elderly mother and her husband has not allowed her to see her two daughters since she ran away from him eight months ago. The judge declined her request to see her girls, saying she?ll just have to wait until they?ve grown up and have been married. Um Hassan has a son, too, but she says he is also abusive.
Um Hassan claims that she fled because her husband would beat her. She claims that one of her daughters threatened suicide because of the domestic abuse erupting around her. When she went to the police, she was told that the police could do nothing because she was a woman coming to them without her mahram ? her legal male guardian, who is the same person from whom she was seeking protection.
The police, she said, simply told her she had to go directly to the Board of Investigations and Prosecution, the Saudi equivalent of a district attorney?s office.
Hadi Al-Yami, a legal analyst for the governmental Human Rights Commission in Asir, said the commission could not help her until the system to which she is appealing fails to deliver her rights.
?We can help her only if the regulations are not implemented by the authorities or orders are violated,? he said.
Al-Yami said that under Saudi law a woman must complain within three days of the abuse for the case to be valid. He also said that she doesn?t have automatic custody rights because her girls are above seven. In custody disputes, Saudi family law heavily favors fathers once children are over seven years old.
Regarding the unwillingness by the police to help, Al-Yami told Arab News that the cops could not assist with women?s complaints without the women being accompanied by their official male guardian. And in the case where the problem arises with the guardian, the woman must go to higher ups to seek reprieve, which could involve a Shariah court taking custody of her, even in the case of a woman in her 50s.
http//www.arabnews.com/?
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God The Most Just, The Most Wise, knows best...
Here's a thought; the Qur'an is not God's words - they are Muhammad's.
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Here's a thought; the Qur'an is not God's words - they are Muhammad's.
Peace
A challenge from God; If you doubt that the words of quran are God's word, then bring a chapter like it
223 And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.
If all humans and the jinn helped eacother, they couldn't write a Quran. And Muhammed was a human so he could not have written the Quran without inspiration/revelation from God
1788 Say "If all the humans and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Qur'an like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another."
The Quran could not have been a human beings words (Muhammed). Quran contains advanced science that could not have been understood at the time period that Muhammed was living, because he did not had the instrument for this advanced scientific observation. Therefore the words he wrote must have been divine inspirations from an higher power. And that higher power, is God.
The Quran contains advanced science that scientist of our time period has not discovered yet
http//www.scienceinquran.com/CREATION%20PHENOMENA.htm
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Here's a thought; the Qur'an is not God's words - they are Muhammad's.
As someone who spent years reading "philosophy", "new age", "budhism" etc. I can assure you I was very taken aback by the way the Quran was written. And the only way you can prove to me that it was the words of a man. Is to write a book that is just as amazing.
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Here's a thought; the Qur'an is not God's words - they are Muhammad's.
So what? Is there a point there?
You clearly seems to have an agenda. If you don't like what the quran says why not just ignore it? Instead of trying to cherry pick awful translations to make your preconceived points.
2849 Say "Then bring forth a book from God that is better in guidance so I may follow it, if you are truthful."
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The challenge to bring something better or like the Qur'an is totally subjective.
Personally I find Plato's Republic (amongst many others) better than the Qur'an.
I see nothing special about the Qur'an.
Some bits are beautiful - other bits dull - and still other bits make me cringe.
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Peace all,
The Quran is a reminder. We were all born with innate knowledge of right from wrong, according to the Quran, and some new exciting experiments by psychologists on babies. If someone finds that something other than the Quran helps them reach these values and attain those morals, then there is nothing wrong with pursuing that path. It is better than to mindlessly go around thinking that "I believe in the Quran" without benefitting a bit from its content.
Nadeem
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The challenge to bring something better or like the Qur'an is totally subjective.
Personally I find Plato's Republic (amongst many others) better than the Qur'an.
I see nothing special about the Qur'an.
Some bits are beautiful - other bits dull - and still other bits make me cringe.
And? You missed the point. Instead of spreading hate, you should either find a better book or write one yourself.
Good for you.
Now you have studied the quran extensively IN ITS LANGUAGE to come to your conclusions, no?
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The Quran itself gives guidance as to how to read it and how to understand it. It says to read it in the best of meanins. So what is so complicated about that. D'ont each of us know what is the best meaning that we can give to what we read? Some times the reaction is as if what in fact the Quran had instructed us was to give it the worst meaning we can possibly conceive. We misguide ourselves either directly or or by choosing to follow other people's own limitations instead of putting in our very best.
Salaam
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The challenge to bring something better or like the Qur'an is totally subjective.
Personally I find Plato's Republic (amongst many others) better than the Qur'an.
I see nothing special about the Qur'an.
Some bits are beautiful - other bits dull - and still other bits make me cringe.
Oh right, because plato's republic isn't sexist, militaristic, xenophobic, sexually perverted, advocating eugenics and the ruthless destruction of family life. Wait a minute, yes it is. Not that I didn't enjoy reading it, but that was partly out of morbid fascination.
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Peace
It's not about bringing something better, because it is simply talking about bringing forth the truth. You cannot bring a truth and challenge the quran because according to it it is a redaction of the truth. Thus if anything, the fools who accept this challenge can only bring forth a falsehood. In other words one will simply be bringing the same truth if anything and rhetoric. So if you ARE truthful you can bring NO antithesis to the quran's doctrines.
Joe
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Not sure that works, Joe, surely the relative truth of the Quran is judged by readers empirically, it isn't the case that everything in it is ontologically certain merely by virtue of being written there.
Thus the verse
2849 Say "Then bring forth a scripture from God that is better in guidance so I may follow it, if you are truthful."
is not automatically rejecting anything different. It isn't saying "You're stupid and wrong for believing anything different". It is saying "If you've got something better, let's see it!" It's trying to encourage a genuine quest for the truth. It is the statement of a true seeker of wisdom, not someone who is closed minded, not someone who believes only he is right and everyone else is wrong.
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Peace
It's not about bringing something better, because it is simply talking about bringing forth the truth. You cannot bring a truth and challenge the quran because according to it it is a redaction of the truth. Thus if anything, the fools who accept this challenge can only bring forth a falsehood. In other words one will simply be bringing the same truth if anything and rhetoric. So if you ARE truthful you can bring NO antithesis to the quran's doctrines.Joe
make sense... yes
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make sense... yes
Salaam
I just can't understand why the discussion seems to divert to other issues brickwall when the problem of domestic violence is the topic ie the subject of ridicule here.
I would invite all to pay attention to the importance of restraint in addressed in verse 34 of Suratun-Nisa,; it has been included in the Qur?an in order to divert a man from abusing his physical strength in favour of using his power of restraint.
Think which is easier; excercising anger which is commonly done by men who hit their wives OR curbing it, which in turn will never result in hitting a woman but could be used by the victim to ask the court to punish the abuser. hmmpeace
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Salaam
I just can't understand why the discussion seems to divert to other issues brickwall when the problem of domestic violence is the topic ie the subject of ridicule here.
I would invite all to pay attention to the importance of restraint in addressed in verse 34 of Suratun-Nisa,; it has been included in the Qur?an in order to divert a man from abusing his physical strength in favour of using his power of restraint.
Think which is easier; excercising anger which is commonly done by men who hit their wives OR curbing it, which in turn will never result in hitting a woman but could be used by the victim to ask the court to punish the abuser. hmm
peaceYou yourself are exercising anger by using this ------> ( brickwall ) Aren't you?
Also its common among those men/women who have some sort of mental weaknesses and they really need to see a psychiatrists at least once every month.
434 says "beat them" which is inhuman of course.
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You yourself are exercising anger by using this ------> ( brickwall ) Aren't you?
Also its common among those men/women who have some sort of mental weaknesses and they really need to see a psychiatrists at least once every month.
434 says "beat them" which is inhuman of course.
Salaam
I would rather brickwall than to hit anyone this is not excersing anger but drawing attention to much misunderstood subject.Ofcorse it is humanly impossible that a man would still maintain his rage and beat his wife despite giving her warning and time to seperate bed such a cooling period will calm down anyone who is angry unless he is inhumane.
However I would rather ask you to think why, according to Quranic instructions, when a man wants to divorce his wife he is supposed to stay close to her until finalising the divorce, but when he fears rebellion from her he is instead asked to separate beds?
peace