This man died...and returned..Heaven and Hell are real
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2 pacs - again I have to engage in doing so much corrections.
How can you judge me whether I have not been objective or not - I did investigate the matter - I did dwleve in the matter with blind faith and the result and my conclusion upon deeper investigation became different - such that eveything themn made sense whereasas it did not before. the prophet when he brought onteh revelations would not have been able to clarify everything he was revealing or caliming to teb the word fo God - yet he still went with the conviction that it was all of the truth.
I have already indicated previously in this same thread - all of our faculties would ideally need to be engaed - meaning the intellectual aswell - when in equal balance or integrity with each other - then fine - but I the problem I am trying to highlight here is intellectual taking precedence - taking importance - if you read back on my posts on this thread - I 'm sure you will be abel to see how this is what I meant.
I never said about leaving this forum all together - I said about not engaiging (as in actively engaging in discussion) with this forum but rather spending my time with the Quran - that may mean looking up references within this forum or in the Quran. Though at this time I am feeling that my tiem spent with the Quran is actually better for me - because then my learning becomes more bespoke. But who's tosday that I don't use both.
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Peace HD
welcome yay
Fadhli when did I sign off this forum as a bad place Huh? - to the contrary - I signed off giveing my thanks for all the insights in to the Quran I gained that helped strengthen my convictions.
Okay maybe i understood incorrectly i just assume that it is bad based from this
This forum is cultured with egotism in favour of worshippping one's own desires or intellect - instead of submitting to God's will and design/system that we are supposed to be following.
I'm sorry if i jumped to conlusions telling that it is bad. So it is an "Ego cultured" and "intellects worshippers" forum then. P
I am really tired of people not listening and tuning in to what a person has said before they speak - it is so indicative of how the person themselves may also be detached from the truth of God and reality. I just feel I have to spend time correcting people and repeating myself - therefore wasting my time.
From this quote i can see that
- you have judged people (in general) not listening and tune to what a person ( that person is you?) said before they speak?
- you have judged based on your indications (your past experiences i assume?) that the person themselves (probably Fadhli & co?) may also be detached from the truth of God and reality (i assume you have understood the truth and reality then).
- Correcting people and repeteadly (persistent?) correcting their mistakes. I see an attempt to control people here, probably without realizing it. I know your intention is sincere. But somehow we (that includes me ) must respect other people's free-will and thoughts. It's like persistently forcing your son to be lawyer whereas he had made up his mind to be an actor. Imagine how he would felt being forced by his mother to do what he does not want. (just an analogy, i'm not targeting it to you )
You had already judged others but
How can you judge me whether I have not been objective or not - I did investigate the matter - I did dwleve in the matter with blind faith and the result and my conclusion upon deeper investigation became different - such that eveything themn made sense whereasas it did not before.
You felt uneasy when others judged you? I sense ignorance here. Well maybe i'm wrong. Just my obersvation. hmm
So i suggest instead of trying to correct others why not just reminding and advise style kinda post. I think that's more acceptable IMHO. I'm sure you are a good and positive person in real life. We are talking about your posts in this thread only.
In my personal experience and overview of this forum I would say there is a strong and undeniable culture of egotism within it that predominates over humility. Thats why I haven't found many humble people joining in discussions here - because birds of one feather tend to flock together. As far as I have seen the real peopel have long flown away after having said their peice or having learnt all that they could and graduated from all teh material contained here.
I'm trying to be as humble as i can here. But this word rings like we're not being humble here. I don't know what kind of humble you expect. '(
I have already indicated previously in this same thread - all of our faculties would ideally need to be engaed - meaning the intellectual aswell - when in equal balance or integrity with each other - then fine - but I the problem I am trying to highlight here is intellectual taking precedence
I don't know about this. But according to dictionary intellect means power of reasoning and understanding. So without a reason how can we understand? Without experience and understanding how can we believe? I think other than experiencing it and understanding the experience or the reason behind the experience can lead to guessing. And usually to streghten the guess one will tend to listen to other opinions or conjecture. Without intellect i think people will become sheep. Not critical in thinking. And become a follower instead of a leader to himself. And when a group people is guessing at the same answers, that might lead to false belief. I'm sure you didn't mean to say we must not use intellect. I think you should fix your definition on intellect. I think what you mean is scientific reasoning right?
So in your case you have experienced the paranormal side of the world. And you have concluded that it is bad or not normal or against our human nature to poke into that thing again. I respect that. I do. But I believe you just can't force others to follow or hear you because you have experienced it. Think about it. If i got scared because of what you had experienced. And i believed you. So i have believed in your conjecture already. What if you are wrong? There's somewhere in Quran that tells us not believe in other peoples conjectures. It's because they are just guessing. Only God knows the absolute truth. Not you, not me and not others in this "Ego cultured and intellect worshipping" forum ;D (sorry for being sarcastic, can't help it P P O0).
Peace no hard feelings handshake
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I think I have learnt my lesson here - do not argue with a fool lest you become reduced to one.
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By the way about two days ago I was on the bus and I opened the Quran to read it - and low and behold it opened on a reference that we had been discussing about and it showed clear proof of the whole debate as to what is taking place here - it was literally there. I thanked God for this and was meaning to give it here in due course - but defintiely, definteily I am not going to bother now as all my efforts would be in vain and I don't beleive that God wishes for effort to be made in vain.
I have tried to warn you - not to get you to follow soemthing of me - but to warn you of the dangers of straying from the straight path.
If I have understood correctly from the Quran - that the rejecters will have a more painful doom than those not warned.
Please be on your way and let me be on mine.
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Salaam,
You know I've had that sleep paralysis experience quite a few times, most of them frightening. On 3 separate occasions I met this personality or being. Their is a moment where you realize that you are not in your normal state or in your body anymore and it is at this point that I would attempt to explore the environment I was in. Usually when I entered this other world I would be in the same room i fell asleep in but certain things would be different. Colors were usually brighter and out of focus and small things would be out of place. For example a picture would be on the wall that shouldn't be their or a piece of furniture would be missing or a different item would be in its place. Sometimes inanimate things come to life and move, I have even seen paintings become animated.
Anyway the first time I met this personality I was house sitting so I wasn't at home. I awoke in this sleep paralysis state and realized that I wasn't in my body. I began to rise up to explore the room when I noticed a dark figure standing in the doorway. It looked like a shadow but was the figure of a large man. He was just standing there looking at me. I couldn't see his features nor his eyes. He appeared to be wearing a cloak of some sort but he was all black just like a shadow. He was standing about 3 and a half meters from my bed. When I saw him I stopped myself from getting up and suddenly this feeling of intense dread came over me. Something was telling me not to approach this figure. I laid back down in my body and forced myself awake. When I looked at the doorway the figure was gone. It was quite frightening. I have seen this same figure 3 times in total and each time in a different location. Have no idea what it was.
Anyone ever seen a large dark shadowy man during this experience?
Peace
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Amin74
Yes I have felt that shadowy figure what you are saying and the feeling of intense fear - to not to invite it to me. But I have not felt it since changing my practices which did not involve OOBEing.The problem is that people will put alot of exuses on it - like it is the shadowy part of your own self - when you are OOBEing that you are seeing, or that you should not fear it.
But what exactly that is or is not - who can actually verify it - other than the person who is experiencing it relying on their own instincts guiding them not go there.
We should respect our feelings and experiences much more than the interpretations of others.
Perhaps some people may feel compatibiltiy with those shadowy figures and so may not feel the fear.
May God protect you.
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but defintiely, definteily I am not going to bother now as all my efforts would be in vain and I don't beleive that God wishes for effort to be made in vain.
I have tried to warn you - not to get you to follow soemthing of me - but to warn you of the dangers of straying from the straight path.
If I have understood correctly from the Quran - that the rejecters will have a more painful doom than those not warned.
Please be on your way and let me be on mine.
Where are you getting this belief from that God doesn't wish our efforts to be made in vain. In that case I can sit on my backside and not help the poor as it would be in vain as there's always going to be poor people in the world. You see my point about using quran as a criteria. I'm not saying im perfect but we are all brought up with misconceptions and cultural baggage which is hard to get rid of and if we don't keep referring back to the quran when talking about God then we are more likely to be led astray.
No offence but judging from your posts your very defensive when challenged which is understandable but you need to be able to back up your beliefs with proof. Leaving a discussion prematurely isn't a good sign of it too.
PEACE
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Peace all
Wow 2pac you sounded mature. I should L2W (learn 2 write) from you. ;D
Dear Amin,
Wow you are lucky (at least to me ) to be one of the 1% of the world population to experience spontaneous OBE.
What you have experienced is common to what other OBEers experienced. Especially the first timers. Those thing that was telling you to escape is what i like call your survival instinct kicks in. It's like when you place your finger at a hot metal or saw a dog growling to you then it reflects to some kind of adrenaline rush. Which always tells you to pull off or run away. But you can change that instinct to let it burn or fight back the dog. With the same adrenaline rush. Another analogy is like a racer. Most of us see it as dangerous and stupid but for them it's something that is exciting. They crave for the adrenaline rush. I hope you get my point. It depends on what you have programmed to your mind previously, your will power.
So is there a danger to that shadowy figure?
According to Synergy from astral society says
What About Negative Entities?
Many people have described seeing entities that are negative while out of body. The most common vision is of dark looking faces, that resemble shadows. In all likelyhood, these 'faces' are not entities at all. They are most often seen at the moment of projection, and are nothing more than the result of your astral vision aligning.
There are however, some legitimate negative entities on the Astral Plane. They are found residing on the lower levels, or subplanes. If you travel there, they may take the opportunity to bother you, however they can do you no harm. The most they can do is be bothersome and cause you fear. Try not to fear them because they are just like an animal with instincts and they can sense it, and will only bother you more.
I recomend staying away from the lower levels of the astral plane alltogether. The beauty increases with each subplane as you travel higher.According to dragonheart from astral dynamics says
I'd like to point out that I was aware of the "shadow self" but I didn't intend to meet my shadow self. My shadow self sought me out and it took some time before I realized that's what was happening. I thought I was being 'stalked' by some negative entity in the Astral Plane.
THE SHADOW SELF
The Shadow self is a nebulous astral body, which is part of your personality and mind. It is the opposite of everything you are whether it is negative or positive, containing all of the parts of yourself that is hidden from society.
Most of the aspects are negative, but some are positive. Positive aspects would be the practice of Shamanism, paganism, healing, magick and religious beliefs, which we keep hidden to avoid ostracism or criticism. In some family circles showing compassion, empathy or any emotions would be considered a weakness.However, the shadow self is mainly composed of all of your suppressed negative emotions, desires and feelings which we experience. It holds outdated social ideas, gender based, sexual, racial stereotypes and prejudices. It feeds on discouragement, depression, fears and doubts.
(i suggest you just omit the use incenses, and all other external preparations (fasting, not eat meat, rituals, drugs etc) except some sleep control and affirmations and focus, let it be natural. I don't think others is necessary, just ask God for help. Total monotheism)
From my point of view, i think it might be our Ego, our higher selves, an entity that had lived with us since we were born. Some day we gonna have to confront it. I don't know how though, i believe its unique to a person. Some might say it is our guardian or angel just waiting for the time to meet us when we're ready. It's a personal experience anyway.
Read more on the links that i gave you. I'm sure you'll find it as interesting (if you are willing to reprogram your mind ).
Next time you got in that world try to ask for protection first. say like "I want protection and security" or "Allah protects me" or maybe "I feel no fear" (experimental) or maybe recite any Quranic verse that you think can increase your strength like ayatul kursi or al-falaq and an-nas (experimental). As long as you feel more confident and safe. If I were you i would like to wish that i want to meet Allah or God or the Creator. I've been longing to do that. It's like literally going to Hajj. I want to feel that unconditional love. It's a thought responsive world. Anything you think will literally come in effect. And to return back just think of your physical body. Nothing harmful can happen if you are confident and always ask for protection. What else should you fear other than God?
Some more links about astral projection
Hope to hear good news from you. ;D yay
Peace handshake
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Yeah just wanna add,
Remember our prophet Muhammad? the first time he saw Jibril? According to hadith he was scared to death. But later on what had happened to him? He became a God servant, closer to God. I dunno much about the details, you can refer it about that story.
Peace
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2pac
Feed a poor person with your hard-earned dollars (work in vain)
OR
give him the tools to cultivate the land for himself and then leave him be if he is too lazy not to bother working for himself? (not work in vain)
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We are given permission to leave when we have done our duty - I have given enough verses from the Quran backed with my own expereinces. All of this is the truth.
I can't help you anymore if you feel that is not enough because I feel that you are not open to the truth but are just wasting my time.
I feel able to leave the discussion now because
Say "O you who reject the truth,"
"I do not worship what you worship,"
"Nor do you worship what I worship,"
"Nor will I worship what you worship,"
"Nor will you worship what I worship,"
"To you is your path, and to me is mine." -
We are given permission to leave when we have done our duty - I have given enough verses from the Quran backed with my own expereinces. All of this is the truth.
You haven't spoke THE truth but maybe A truth as THE truth rests with only God. You have misinterpreted verses in the Quran and used your experiences to follow ahead while not using Quran as a main criterion. Thats why we are on this forum to discuss the interpretations of the Quran so we can come to a better understanding but if we all had your attitude of feeling as though we have done enough and wasting our time we wouldn't progress anywhere.
I can't help you anymore if you feel that is not enough because I feel that you are not open to the truth but are just wasting my time.
I feel able to leave the discussion now because
Say "O you who reject the truth,"
"I do not worship what you worship,"
"Nor do you worship what I worship,"
"Nor will I worship what you worship,"
"Nor will you worship what I worship,"
"To you is your path, and to me is mine."Again you are running away from your claims and misinterpreting the verses of the Quran without looking at all verses and holding onto your beliefs/ideas. Being self critical is very hard as a human and you should be open minded and reasonable when you come across a difference of opinion and learn to engage in a rational debate and not give up so easily.
PEACE
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Salaam Fadhli,
That is great information, thanks for that. I'll check out those links asap. The picture you posted doesn't look like him. He was large and masculine but completely black like a living 3 dimensional shadow. Very scary. You know the last time I saw him I watched in amazement as he did these incredible things. It was surreal and very fast. He basically seemed to appear in multiple locations at once, as if their were more then one of him. Then all his images recombined back into a single entity about 3 meters from where he was originally standing. He then just leaped very high into the air and disappeared. It was crazy! The whole time I was frozen and couldn't move. I haven't experienced him since. In fact it has been a few years since I had an OBE. They kind of scare me so i don't really make an effort to try and go there.
There was another time that i was actually attacked by an entity, but this one looked like a large reptilian humanoid. That was the scariest experience of all. I don't know how he could attack me but he grabbed both my arms and started pushing me around. I was so scared and tried to break free but he felt incredibly strong. I then tried very hard to wake myself up and was finally able to. When I awoke he was obviously not there. It was an incredible experience as it felt so real. This entity was very frightening. His skin was scaled like a lizard and he had long claw like fingernails on his hands. It was hard to get a good look at his face because he came from behind when he grabbed my arms. He manhandled me like a rag doll! Thank God I have never seen that again.
peace
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2Pacs - you are right it is just my truth. But that is all I can do right now - I have to live by my convictions just as you must live by yours.
I think certainly debating can be good when it gets one to iron out one's insufficiencies - but there be a point where it should not go on pointlessly - and I feel that I have reached that point here. I do have more to give but as I don't feel like I am being heard and end up having to repeat myself and correct people so much then I see it as a fruitless task. And since I am aslo unable to accept what others are saying - so then what be the point of continuing in that way??
I see on the following thread (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12200.0) after 21 pages or so that there was no real progression in the debate in terms of sides being convinced of each other's arguments. There is a Zainab on the thread who many at the end were commending for putting up an argument but in fact now I see she has totally left the forum and after alll that hard work did not manage to win over the opposition.
May I not have the rights to execise my intelligence as to how I spend my time what I feel is wisely or otherwise??
And in fact throughout this whole forum I see there still no concensus in the matter of salat. I was only able to arrive at my own conclusions by reading and investigating the Quran for myself. It is clear how that actually fits with many people on this thread - it will be seen as wrongly misintepreted.
I personlly think that the best thing anyone can do is read and try to understand the Quran for themselves and live by it instead of endlessly debating on it with people till kingdom come. I don;t beleive that people shoudl have to come to a concensus for the sake of being agreed. But rather they should stand for their own truths whatever be in line with their conscience - I really feel that God will then guide the person if they be sincere.
And if that means for some people debating with everyone - and beleiveing in OOBE - so be it.
So there you go - now I accpt for you to go your way - permission granted - but in teh same respect let me also reserve my rights not to engage with this anymore. sunBest wishes for God's guidance on us all.
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oops I meant
It is clear how that actually fits with many people on this thread - yet also the same interpreaation will be seen as wrongly misintepreted by many others.
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Peace HD,
I think there will never be consensus in anywhere in this world. ;D I think you had finally realized it now. D . I think we should not pursue the consensus, but what we should pursue is that experience in in that event which indirectly increase our faith and understanding. I think this forum has served its purpose. Be it debating, arguing, anything that is meaningful. As long as it is for understanding our purpose and our Creator i think it's worth it. At least for me ;D. And it can also teach us lessons. I think that's God's way of teaching. Like a lion teaching her cub by pushing it off to a cliff.
Like Jedi always says. Be mindful of your thought. jedi
Peace Amin,
Wow Amin, my heart felt pounding. I dunno whether i should say cool or not. &
Talk about that reptilian, i just found out about that Planet-X that gonna break the earth grid or something on youtube. Kinda we are the Reptilians prisioners. Some big political leaders like Bush and Osama is their puppet. And God or something in the divine is coming to free us. I dunno whether it's true or not. Other story says that this planet-x or Nibiru is gonna cross the planet and probably 90% of human population will die. All is predicted happening on 2012. Check this out. This world is becoming weirder and weirder. ;D
But If this is true, this might explain all the sudden climate changes, floods, winds tsunami etc. And if most of mankind indeed perish, i think it is time for the next evolution. I think it's for the best. All nation will perish. Human will unite once again IMHO. Praise to God. He knows best.
Peace
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2Pacs - you are right it is just my truth. But that is all I can do right now - I have to live by my convictions just as you must live by yours.
I never said it just YOUR truth as a matter of fact i think the opposite.
I think certainly debating can be good when it gets one to iron out one's insufficiencies - but there be a point where it should not go on pointlessly - and I feel that I have reached that point here. I do have more to give but as I don't feel like I am being heard and end up having to repeat myself and correct people so much then I see it as a fruitless task. And since I am aslo unable to accept what others are saying - so then what be the point of continuing in that way??
Here's a tip I found If you end up having to repeat yourself then repeat in another way to make the person understand
I haven't seen you correct me or Fadhli with any matter but have challenged your certain statements as being illogical.I see on the following thread (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12200.0) after 21 pages or so that there was no real progression in the debate in terms of sides being convinced of each other's arguments. There is a Zainab on the thread who many at the end were commending for putting up an argument but in fact now I see she has totally left the forum and after alll that hard work did not manage to win over the opposition.
Both sides are not the only sides reading the arguments you've got people like us reading too. I wasn't convinced on any of the arguments which made me convinced that we haven't got to the bottom of salah YET, but thats another topic altogether
And in fact throughout this whole forum I see there still no concensus in the matter of salat. I was only able to arrive at my own conclusions by reading and investigating the Quran for myself. It is clear how that actually fits with many people on this thread - it will be seen as wrongly misintepreted.
Maybe there never was/is supposed to be consensus on what salah is because its not a ritual or a static pratice/method throught humankind life.
I personlly think that the best thing anyone can do is read and try to understand the Quran for themselves and live by it instead of endlessly debating on it with people till kingdom come. I don;t beleive that people shoudl have to come to a concensus for the sake of being agreed.
You complain in your previous comment about how there's no consensus on salah and now you don't believe that people should have to come to a consensus for the sake of being agreed then what do you want? See the error? The Quran isn't from my understanding a personal revelation but for everyone so trying to understand Quran for yourself is dangerous also as you can't follow the command in the Quran that says discuss through mutual consultation and live together. The whole concept of shaitan whatever that maybe is to create sects in humankind.
So there you go - now I accpt for you to go your way - permission granted - but in teh same respect let me also reserve my rights not to engage with this anymore. sun
Permission granted