Constitution in Final Draft (Please Read)
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Salam,
I understand what you have said about the Quran being the source of all laws having a double edged sword. You basically want to trust the people to be mature enough so as to argue the laws and each present his/her evidence.
i.e. something along the lines
3-1 "The power to make laws, keeping with the spirit of justice, with such laws being open to subsequent change and/or review."
On the voting issue, I think I have understood your point.
If interested, send me your e-mail and we can cover the wording of the actual document sections ([email protected])
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Salam,
Here is the revised text for the sections under discussion
Seats to the national council will be granted to those nominees who achieve a majority vote from the district where they reside. Votes in single member districts will be made on the basis of alternative voting, while votes in multiple member districts will be made on the basis of single transferable voting.
3.1 The power to make, review, amend, and repeal laws in accordance with the principles of justice. (45
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For those who hold differing views on matters of private concerns; examples of this could include homosexuality/bisexuality/transgendered. As so long as these differences don't disrupt the harmony on society, that is, infringe on the rights of others, there needs to he a specific to protect us/them.
There are no specifics within the Quran with forbid homosexuality; there are sections which talk about heterosexual males wishing to engage in homosexual activities for sexual release or for pagan festivals (such as the worship of Molech the fertility god mentioned in the story of Lot) but nothing outside of that.
6151 Say "Come let me recite for you what your Lord has forbidden for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and be kind to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is plain of it or subtle; and do not kill the soul which God has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
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6151 Say "Come let me recite for you what your Lord has forbidden for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and be kind to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is plain of it or subtle; and do not kill the soul which God has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
But my 'homosexuality' has nothing to with having sex with men for sexual release, but the fact that I have no attraction what so ever to females and that I long to have a partner of the same sex in a long term relationship. Regarding 'shameful doings' - I don't think that a loving long term relationship with a member of the same sex is considered a 'shameful act'.
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This constitution looks impressive, I think the only thing missing is the protection of a persons sexual orientation from prejudice. The only thing I disagreed with is the amount of power of the legislative branch and the micromangement of the executive branch. Also, what are the restrictions for becoming a Prime Minister? I would love to try and run for office when I come to the required age.
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This constitution looks impressive, I think the only thing missing is the protection of a persons sexual orientation from prejudice. The only thing I disagreed with is the amount of power of the legislative branch and the micromangement of the executive branch. Also, what are the restrictions for becoming a Prime Minister? I would love to try and run for office when I come to the required age.
My concern comes to the 'right to privacy' how private is that privacy. If I grow some weed in my garage, and its on my property and its for my own personal use, does the law have the right to come into my property? Lets assume I have a swingers evening once a week, and I cause no disruption to the neighbour's - is there any right of the government to impose their brand of morality in my private property?
Do we take the approach of having 'vice and virtue police' or do we have police which protect property but leave morality up to the individual as so long as it doesn't disrupt the peace?
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In that case I feel that marijuana should be legal to posses, grow, and consume,(in a safe enviroment) but not distribute. Im guessing the a swingers evening is something sexual, so as long as no one gets hurt, not causing any disturbance, and protection readily available then its absolutley acceptble.
Also, I would like to know about gun ownership rights, would it be legal to own weapons?
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In that case I feel that marijuana should be legal to posses, grow, and consume,(in a safe enviroment) but not distribute. Im guessing the a swingers evening is something sexual, so as long as no one gets hurt, not causing any disturbance, and protection readily available then its absolutley acceptble.
Also, I would like to know about gun ownership rights, would it be legal to own weapons?
Depends on how far you want to take the idea of an 'islamic state' - do you have a formal standing army or does every Muslim have the obligation to defend his/her country? if the gun is there to ensure that the government doesn't go to far, what kinds of checks will there need to be?
As for anything sexual in nature, I think the issue is scriptural interpretation. For me, I can accept that others have differing views on the matter, the issue is when they ram their morality down my throat under the guise "I know what is best for you" attitude.
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Depends what we mean by "ramming down one's throat".
Do we mean coercive morality police, or do we mean other people making a lot of noise about their views? Classical liberalism forbids the government from coercing people except where their behavior is harming third parties. Therefore, the government does not make laws to force people to do anything "for their own good". However, the Classical Liberal government nonetheless very much "rams" things down peoples "throats", insofar as it emphasises education as a means of training people to make the right choices later in life.
If this state in anyway reflects this distinction, and I'm a big fan of the idea that Islam is about freedom, you'll still be taught a lot of other peoples ideas about sexual morality, harmful drugs, and the media will still make a lot of fuss when this or that celebrity does something they consider poor conduct, and your neighbours will still very much judge you if they notice you're still sleeping with a new partner every night.
Just because you're not forced to do the right thing, doesn't mean you're free from all pressure. No man is an island, as the saying goes. We all depend on society for almost every aspect of our lives and so we have to accept a give or take relationship, where we have to adhere to certain expectations if we want others to treat us with respect.
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Just some changes that I believe should be made to the Constitution
• Article I 7. Citizens are deemed as those persons who carry the nationality at the time of implementing this constitution. The law shall grant citizenship to any person who is legally residing within the borders of the republic and applies for such citizenship at the time of the implementation of this Constitution.
• Article III Elections will be based on districts, whereby each district is defined as an area with a citizen population of of the total population of the republic. Areas that have populations below shall have their number added to the nearest geographic area until that number reaches or exceeds one percent. Seats for the national council will be allotted on the basis of a minimum of one seat for every district, with districts having populations in multiples of one percent being allotted one extra seat for each multiple.
Persons eligible for the national council must be citizens, male or female, sixteen years of age or older, of sound mind and character and must be residents of the district they are elected from.
Eligible voters shall be as those male and female citizens who have reached the age of sixteen or older, and who are present within the borders of the republic at the time of voting.Seats to the national council will be granted to those nominees who achieve a majority vote from the district where they reside. Votes in single member districts will be made on the basis of alternative voting, while votes in multiple member districts will be made on the basis of single transferable voting.
National council members, unless re-elected, shall serve one term of four years beginning on the first day of the first month of the new year.• Article IV The executive powers of the republic shall be placed in a prime minister who shall be elected by the male and female citizens who have reached the age of sixteen or older of . (Quran 2124)
• Article V The high court shall comprise of twelve justices who shall be appointed by the national council and who shall hold office as long as proper conduct and legal adherence is maintained. The high court shall have the responsibility of appointing court judges, presiding over cases of treason, presiding over impeachment of the prime minister or council members, and having the ultimate judicial authority over lower courts.They may only intervene in National Council affairs where the Constitution or, more importantly, the Qur'an are not being adhered to or overruled. In order to decide whether such an act is taking place, the high court must go to a vote. Action must only be taken if there is a 5/6 majority or greater.
• Article VIII Oath of the republic ?I solemnly swear before Allah and before the witness of the citizens of this republic to uphold the role of to the best of my abilities to protect the integrity of the constitution and the republic. I swear to live my life according to the laws and regulations of the republic and to uphold the highest moral character. I swear to work in the best interest of the republic and to constantly strive to improve life for its citizens. I swear never to abuse my position or authority in any way shape or form for personal gain. I swear never to carry favour to any person or persons or group be they family members or friends or acquaintances beyond what is fair and just. I swear to stand for and to promote the laws of peace and justice and equality wherever I may be. I have placed Allah as a witness over this oath of mine, may He have mercy on my soul and guide me to always do what is right.?
In Allah we have placed our trust?
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- Article I 7. Citizens are deemed as those persons who carry the nationality at the time of implementing this constitution. The law shall grant citizenship to any person who is legally residing within the borders of the republic and applies for such citizenship at the time of the implementation of this Constitution.
Why only at the time of implementation? Shouldn't everyone be accepted into the ideal state, so long as they're not trying to destroy it or something?
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Dear Layth,
The words are beautiful in your constitution as in other constitutions but the problem remains the same. The problem is not words but how they are interpreted or overlapped at different places and under different situations.
Laws must be interpreted precisely under all circumstances, only then it can be called perfect law. Every person?s fears must be answered and if his fears are answered precisely, only then force will not be needed to implement that law.
If you leave the law to be understood by a line then it will be like giving a free ride to the one in power to interpret whatever way he seems fit at the moment of making the law. Same thing is done by the people at all times and you are not an exception.
Let me give you my understanding about what law must be like and not by just saying law will be according to Quran.
Here is an example of my understanding of open lewdness according to Quran.
According to my understanding open lewdness is all the actions which can be interpreted as a sexual exploitation of opposite sex or misconduct in public.
- Kissing or holding hands in public by opposite or same sexes even if they are husband and wife.
- Displaying of sexual parts of the body man or woman alike even under the clothes in public. i.e. wearing tight, thin or see through clothes or by any actions such as running of a women in public without wearing blouse so that her bosoms movement can be seen or man running in public wearing tight see through shirt and underwear.
- Publicly announcing same sex marriages.
- Publicly using words or sentences to abuse or attract someone physically.
If you look at the above then you will see that my understanding is that God is only prohibiting us publicly and we can do whatever we want in our houses. It may be right or wrong according to different people in this forum that is why we need the clear interpretation of what we say in one word. So according to my interpretations it is completely safe to do whatever you want in your houses even though it is wrong according to God.
We can make the law that There will be no worshiping publicly. Every religion can have buildings of worships and we can make the law that no one can publicly show their way of worshiping whatsoever it is, or publicly arranging the gathering regarding religion.
Above are the examples of laws and all these presentation of Laws can be made Laws if voted by 2/3(75%) of the public accepting it otherwise it will be the duty of the elected people or the people or those who want that law to be made public law to make people understand the benefits of that law for a limited time publicly. Another way is that authority is given to council that law can be passed by the council as trial law for limited period (accept by the people) for the people to see its benefits or losses.
Idea of electing council is right but the eligibility is not given and the way it is done today it becomes useless due to lots of reasons. That can be discussed later.
Regards.
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I agree with Asfandyar concerning the age.
Persons eligible for the national council must be citizens, male or female, forty years of age or older, of sound mind and character and must be residents of the district they are elected from.
why 40? age cant be an argument in here. some 18 year old could be more adequate for the job than best of us in fourties. )
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I agree with Asfandyar concerning the age.
why 40? age cant be an argument in here. some 18 year old could be more adequate for the job than best of us in fourties. )
An 18 year old does not have anywhere near as much experience as a 40 year old. As smart as he or she may be I dont believe that people under 40 should be allowed to run for the highest office as they have not seen and experienced enough of life to know how to handle complicated situations.
On a different note,
I highly disapprove of the way that Mr.Obama became president and gathered support media manipulation.
As great a person as he may be, I dont believe that anyone running for president should be given so much more media attention than his rival. Can you imagine someone sweet talking the country, becoming popular and then assuming power? ahem Bush ahem
I think someone mentioned the fact it seems in America there are a lot more (excuse my language) stupid voters than smart, informed people. In my experience it is a lot easier to show propaganda down the throat of the uninformed voter.And on the issue of weapons. I think anyone of age (18+) and of sound mind and character should be allowed to buy weapons and keep them for defense. This would be to keep the balance between the civilians and the government. Anyone who would want to coup the government would have to think twice about how much dissent there might be laugh
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An 18 year old does not have anywhere near as much experience as a 40 year old. As smart as he or she may be I dont believe that people under 40 should be allowed to run for the highest office as they have not seen and experienced enough of life to know how to handle complicated situations.
On a different note,
20 The power to call for a public militia in defence of the republic and its lands. (Quran 865)
And on the issue of weapons. I think anyone of age (18+) and of sound mind and character should be allowed to buy weapons and keep them for defense. This would be to keep the balance between the civilians and the government. Anyone who would want to coup the government would have to think twice about how much dissent there might be laugh
And the public militia has to be ready to defend the republic at any and all times.
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I don't get the quranic constitution, it doesn't make sense that you would add quran verses next to words. If this does go through and chiristians and jews start living here (under the freedom of religion of course) there going to want biblical verses in the constitution....so it's not going to make much sense
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ASA, Layth
one vital point has been missed altogether in the constitution. The interpretation of Quranic Law when it comes to the point of meting out JUSTICE. Who decides upon the correct interpretation. As things are there seem to be so many interpretations that it is virtually impossible to determine the correct one and apply it.
