A Quranic community? - a few questions first...
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Salam,
The following is my opinion on the subjectThe desire to live in a Quranic community, may be a natural phase in spiritual development.
When one starts examining the Quran and and the laws set forth therein, ones reaction is sometimes ?why aren?t we all living by these rules and only surrounded by people who are also only obeying these rules?? or ?How can we make society as perfect as it should be??
For the most part communities today are not made up of people who understand God?s message or respect that it should be the most important thing in a person?s life. This can be frustrating to the believers at first.
I think these assertions are indicative of the person making the following realizations
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That the message has become a very important factor in their lives and they realize the importance of following the laws as best as one can.
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That they are at a point in their spiritual journey that they instinctively know they need to either be shut off from society or they only want to be surrounded by people who are likeminded in order to absorb and follow the message.
Unfortunately, it is usually impossible for a person to disassociate from society due to financial reasons or otherwise.
So this sometimes leads one to want a perfect society to live in.Some people actually do find a way to remove themselves from society for a while. They do this alone, with a spiritual guide or in a school/monastery/commune that actually does function as a ?community? that is likeminded and shut off from the world (but only for a time).
I think it is also helpful to point out that many prophets spent an adequate amount of time being separated from society to contemplate and strengthen their faith usually before they became involved in society again.
But many will not find that this isolation is an option.
While the concept of a Quranic community is amiable, it is not practical. We know that there will always be rejecters, disbelievers, hypocrites, and those inclined to worship what God created instead of God alone. And ultimately any society that starts out with the best of intentions will evolve into something quite different than how it began. This is due to the humans involved. And, not due to any fault in the message itself.
It would be a very difficult task indeed to find a large enough group of people to form a community who agreed completely on every verse in the Quran at the same time. Many people will find that their understanding on a subject just one year ago is different then how they understand that same subject today. This alone should indicate to them that a Quranic community is not possible. The spiritual journey may be too personal.
Perhaps the next step in spiritual development is to accept that it is not that we should live or create a perfect community, but that one must accept that there will always be others more advanced on the path and others far behind on the path and those who are completely off the path.
At some point one must come to the understanding that the community should/will have no affect on their ability or willingness to obey God and his messages. And it doesn?t matter which community one lives in. All that matters is ones obedience to God in the best way that one understands.
In my opinion the perfect community is one where we are surrounded by those of many faiths and opinions and positions in life.
They each have something to teach us, if we think about it.
Even the begger on the street corner reminds us to give to charity.
Salam,
Arnab -
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Good points bro's
Rajah
I like your direct style. I hadn't read your post before i posted mine. nr 6) is similar to my nr 6; answerAlmakto
The free community where everyone can strive as much as they want sound interesting too. Because
God Does not want to place any hardships on us, when it comes to deen. At the same time, we must strive in the cause of god, and help the poor and needy as much as we can. There is no constant resting in this
worldly life. Resting comes in the hereafter (For those that come to paradise)Arnab
It's good that you are realistic. I like this approach too. However, i think as long as everyone in the
Quranic country/community accept the basic laws of Quran, then it does not matter if they have different
opinions on a few less important laws. The basic laws are the most important in my opinion.Fantastic thread. Many interesting opinions. Keep on bringing it folks.
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The free community where everyone can strive as much as they want sound interesting too. Because
God Does not want to place any hardships on us, when it comes to deen. At the same time, we must strive in the cause of god, and help the poor and needy as much as we can. There is no constant resting in this
worldly life. Resting comes in the hereafter (For those that come to paradise)Good point bro,
872 Those who have believed and emigrated and strived with their money and lives in the cause of God, and those who sheltered and supported; these are the allies of one another. And those who believed but did not emigrate, you do not owe them any obligation until they emigrate. But if they seek your help in the system, then you must support them, except if it is against a people with whom there is a treaty between you. God is watcher over what you do.I also like how you mentioned about the Golden age of Islam. They became a mighty nation just because they obeyed God. And now look what happened when they turned away.
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Even if you are not for such a community, feel free to answer theoretically if you wish, or if you are not for or against, you can still answer.
This actually sounds like something I would like to try out. Though I wouldn't exactly put it in the sense of a Quranic community when reading my answers.
- What is your primary motive for wanting to join/form such a community?
The possibility to live with like-minded people (at least people with some respect for other people and things), it also might be to escape persecution if thats a factor.
- What do you feel you can do in such a community that you cant do in the community where you live at the moment?
Agree ideologically with other people.
- Let's say you join such a community, but they implement practices/law that you do not agree with, what would you do?
It would most likely have a system to voice your opinions/concerns openly to others; so I would use that.
- How far would you be willing to go to protect such a community if it existed?
If I truly believed in it, to the death.
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If forming such a community will take time/effort, do you think the same time/effort could be better utilised, or is this not really a concern?
I dont exactly understand what you mean by this; either that the effort used to make this community could be better used in your current community; or if there would be a good effort to make it. -
Is there any criteria you would stipulate for a community member to have in order for them to join?
Besides following the law, no; for a postiton of leadership though, yes.
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The Issue is that human beings are social creatures and therefore live as communities. The question therefore is which community does a person belong.
Allah did not send a single community to earth but two communities the RATIONAl/Focused community and the BLIND community.
Allah sent Adam as the head of His community and sent Iblis as the head of the other community. These two communities co-exist on earth as enemies (not friends) and the two communities will live until the end of time. Allah is sustaining Iblis.
Since none of the community can completely eliminate the other (yet we live in a single house), one community would have to subjugate the other. The fight is an everlasting one.
In Allah?s community, there is one goal and one interest. Love (in Allah?s community) is based on Allah and this is the only genuine love on earth. Members of this community fight against their irrational desires. They are honest and straightforward and do not need to manoeuvre each other.
Membership to the community of Allah is based on awareness and choice (not tradition).
In Iblis community, love is based on selfish interests. There is no true love, no common goal and no common interest.
The world was once a single village, it became villages and thanks to Technology, it is becoming a village again.
The Earth is covered mostly by water. The continental area?all land rising above sea level?amounts to about 29% of the total area. It is on this land that about 6 billion people live and build their houses.
Iblis and his men have been very active in this world. They mostly dominate the affairs of the world and set up one government after the other as they compete among themselves. It has all been competition based on blind desires and interests and it has always been Might that determines Right.
The masses are always at the cross road and they have all along been manoeuvred for the benefit of the powerful.
The government of the world Kufr is based on dictatorship by the so called Elites because it is the nature of human beings. Anyone who has the opportunity would want to play god.
Democracy is a clever dictatorship in contrast to the crude one. The masses are made to believe that they are participating. Mental enslavement is worse than physical enslavement.
The people of the world are divided into Nations with seemingly independent governments. The United States of America is the richest and the most powerful of all the nations. The masses of U.S.A. are held hostage by some powerful elites under the guise of freedom.
As usual, the goal is to completely dominate over the world until no other god is worshipped. Pharaoh wanted to kill God for the same reason.
Al-Islam which proclaims a supreme Lord and recognises just that Lord is the greatest obstacle on their way. The rest is what you see. Muslims live as a distinct community moving in a direction different from the present U.S.A. led world community.
Would the Muslims who live in an entire different community accept the lordship of the enemies or chose to be defiant? Would they still hold on to their belief that Allah is al-Qadir (All-Powerful) and on Him alone is reliance? Only time can tell.
This is the test for which we live on this earth.
Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them.
Those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say Our Lord is Allah.
And had there not been Allah's repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down monasteries, and churches and synagogues and mosques in which Allah's name is much remembered; and surely Allah will help him who helps His cause; most surely Allah is Strong, Mighty.
Those who, should We establish them in the land, will keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and enjoin good and forbid evil; and for Allah is the end of affairs. (Q2239-41)
And certainly We wrote in the Book after the reminder that (as for) the land, My righteous servants shall inherit it. (Q21105)
So as you can see my dear wakas, it is not question of whether we should have or not have a community.
In a Muslim community, we identify the challenges and attend to them as rational as possible. This I believe answers all your questions.
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peace all,
Thanks for the replies, it was helpful. To undrstand better, I need to ask some follow up questions
Rajah
what country do you live in at the moment? As it seems the main benefit(s) for you moving to such a community could be acheived by living in pretty much any country in the "West".aalmakto
- Having a sense of belonging is very important for humans, or at least that is my observation. Whether it's a marriage, family, friends, culture/tradition etc so I understand your answer on this.
My idea was that it was more of a "collective migration" type thing. Where there are no law makers or law givers. I don' think we are at the stage where we can be an independent country. A good example is where I live. It is a predominantly Western Country. But the Muslims have all gathered around the local mosque, so finding jobs, getting married, meeting people is easy for them because they can just go to the mosque and talk face to face rather than online.
Yes. I haven't given the "Quranic community" concept much thought (as I am working to a different plan) but IF it were to take place, the above sounds much more practical, e.g. use a country's existing infrastructure, carve a niche, improve upon things, help and support each other etc. I personally have a very strong preference for practicality.
- Not sure if I'd say "extreme" amount of effort would be required, but I think it would be significant.
David
Questions that we must ask ourselves is do we want to start such a community because of our ego's (our own needs), or because we want to contribute to the humanity, and a quranic community would be the best way we can all support and work with eachother as a team, for making the world a better place.
Exactly. I might even go as far as to say I would like to live amongst people who did not care about my beliefs or what I practiced as long as whatever I did and believed did not have a tangibly detrimental effect upon them, and vice versa. In fact, one could even argue this is AQ's position (see chapter 9). I'm not sure if we have fully appreciated AQ's view on this.
What about our children?
I think it is almost inevitible there would be dilution through generations, in terms of original ideas/purity/structure/etc. One way to reduce this effect would be to have a regular influx of like-minded active people to the area.
Arnab
We have to be realistic, so it is definitely good to point out the potential difficulties. I agree with most of what you said. I think spiritual development would be a benefit for such a community, but like most things, there are many avenues to spiritual development, including enduring hardships etc.LP
Re 5)
that the effort used to make this community could be better used in your current community
That was one of the things I was suggesting.Omeiza
I agree with most of what you said about archetypes, systems etc.I know there were only several replies, but generally
Re 3) I think you were implying if a consensus/democratic decision was made, you would accept it, even if you felt it was "unquranic". Fair enough.
In my opinion, I felt that the replies to (2) & (5) were unsatisfactory.
- There were different responses to this question, suggesting we need to further understand AQ's position on this.
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Yes. I haven't given the "Quranic community" concept much thought (as I am working to a different plan) but IF it were to take place, the above sounds much more practical, e.g. use a country's existing infrastructure, carve a niche, improve upon things, help and support each other etc. I personally have a very strong preference for practicality.
Peace Wakas
I had not seen this idea from this point of view. I think until now, this is the best and most realistic one. By having a Quranic community where all monotheists live under the laws of the particular country they live in, they can still work together as a team, and contribute more to the humanity. Monotheists that live close to eachother, for instance monotheists from England, Ireland and France could all move to a huge neighbourhood in for example a city in England, and form/start a Quranic community there. Monotheists from different states in America can move to one state and start a community in the city in that state. Monotheists from different countries in Asia that are close to eachother (neighbours), like for instance Iran, India, pakistan can move to a city in India and start a community there, Monotheists from Australia and New zealand can move to a city in Australia and start community there...
As you say wakas, by doing this monotheists can help and support eachother, and live among likeminded people.
If it works for the sunni and shia muslims, it can work for us too. And i think it will even work much better for us, because we will be a people that constantly educate ourselves, pluss use reason, and live by facts, not by conjecture. This idea could be a way of making other communities seeing us evolve, and becoming inspired to learn more about us. They may also see a different type of Islam than the traditional islam, and then spread the message, and tell people that rational muslims also exist. Because as we know, at least 30% of western people think Islam is not compatible by rationality and reason and evolvement. And when we grow to a larger all around the world, we can then melt this different communities in asia, europe, australia etc, and make all this Quranic communties that are spread around the world into one big "Quranic community". What is your opinion on this wakas?Further we can also start "Quranic Organizations", organizations that could visist poor communities in Asia and Africa that are non-muslims, and teach them the true laws of Islam based on Quran alone. "The Quranic Organization" could also help poor countries giving charity, building schools and hospitals. From what i have observed, many countries stay backwards not only because corruption or the lack of oil, but because they are divided into soooo many different sects. Some countries in africa even have more than 200 languages. If someones friend of mine likes a completely different political party, and his different views on the politics in the world, sometimes that will make us distant. Because the disagreements in almost all political issues will also make the friendship less close. But here we are talking about the language of people, and this is much much more serious, and will have a much greater impact on the dividing or unity of people. So whats the solution? I think that the Quranic organizations in asia, europe, america and australia, can choose one country, and visit that particular country for example 3 months every summer, and teach the people English as the first language, Classical Arabic as the second. By learning people to speak 2 languages rather than 200 different languages, this will give great results, and unite the people. By learning English they would get access to thousands of english books about technology and all other kinds of development. Because as far as i know, many of the african countries have minimal books that are translated to their languages, so it will be far more effective (even 1000 times more), to just move to that country each summer, where 2000 Monotheists teach people English. From what i also have observed, all countries that have english as a first language as evolved, and escaped poverty. This is the true power of language. I think mainly this is because almost all books about science and other developing information is written in English. These teachers and scholars from the Quranic organization can also learn them Classical arabic at the same time. I honestly believe the solutions to the backwardness in Africa can be solved by the laws of the Quran, and if all africans in that particular country have the same faith and follow the same laws (Quranic laws), then they can erase their poverty and grow to be strong and righteous nations. So Quran is also a thing that unite the people, and probably the best thing for keeping them united.
Many militaries in the world for example use a technique called "Divide and Conquer". And by using this technique, and making people divide themselves, the militaries know that the country and people will become weak.
Together they were strong, but when they divide, and start fight with eachother, it will then be easy for militaries to conquer them. This shows us that people are strong only as long as they are united.The Quranic organizations in asia, europe, america and australia, can do other missions and tasks. Every monotheist can for instance use their own talents, and contribute in their own way. Since not everyone wants or likes to be a teacher or a scholar. Someone that is good with architecture, can be an architect there. Someone that can build electronical devices and computers can build this in the country. Someone that is a farmer, can do agriculture there.
Someone that is good with maths can be an econom/businessman. And the list goes...
If the organizations are big enough, this will become a reality. But i doubt that any monotheist can start such big projects and put it into action alone. So the conclusion is that such a organization can only work if there are many monotheists that work as a team together and help eachother. What do you think about this idea bro's? Can this be a realistic plan for us after the establishment of the Quranic Communities (if that happens) ?Yours sincerely
David -
peace David, all,
I'm not sure if it would be necessary or a good thing to join up all the "Quranic communities". This has its advantages and disadvantages.
Re Quranic Organisations
The reasons you gave for having such organizations were spreading the message, charity, building hospitals, spreading education etc and whilst that it good, I dont see how this cant be done in one's own community, or if not, through doing volunteer projects in other countries. Hence saying earlier that the replies given to (2) were unsatisfactory in my view. Dont get me wrong, I understand that it might be easier to do such things with like minded people in larger numbers, but these types of people are not exclusive to monotheists or muslims or us. For example, I know of many groups in my local community who do not care about your views but are very happy to work with you to do certain things, e.g. raise money for charity, do volunteer projects, help those disadvantaged etc. These types of groups/organisations are present all around the world.So the conclusion is that such a organization can only work if there are many monotheists that work as a team together and help each other.
I agree that working together is crucial, but I do not believe we have to be physically present together to do great things.
One of the main reasons I started this thread was that I didn't understand how people thought by forming/joining such a community it would magically allow them to do the things mentioned, when in reality, they can do these things where they are. So my thinking was there must be other (perhaps deeper) reasons why people want this community and I think I know why. It is because people want to belong, it is because people want to be among their own, where they feel at home, they want to be happy, they want to feel secure, they want to feel free, to have peace, to become everything they ever dreamed of, they long for justice/truth/righteousness/love and they feel in such an environment, it will allow them to have these things.
Is this understandable? Yes, perfectly, but I cant help but think of the saying "Think global, act local."
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness is it not? So, who is lighting candles where they are?
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Peace Wakas
Re Quranic Organisations
When it comes to the Quranic Organisations you are right. Spreading the message, charity, building hospitals, spreading education etc, can all be done in our own cities and countries with the help of other Rightheous and Good-hearted people(People that not necesseraly are montoheists). There are already many organisations that contribute, so think starting a Quranic Organisation won't be needed. I guess the idea of being with likeminded people made me think we might work better if we live in a Quranic Community, but this actually don't matter. Because there are other people that want to contribute to the humanity from other faiths that already work as hard as we want to do, and probably much harder, and the only thing we have to do is to join them.One of the main reasons I started this thread was that I didn't understand how people thought by forming/joining such a community it would magically allow them to do the things mentioned, when in reality, they can do these things where they are. So my thinking was there must be other (perhaps deeper) reasons why people want this community and I think I know why. It is because people want to belong, it is because people want to be among their own, where they feel at home, they want to be happy, they want to feel secure, they want to feel free, to have peace, to become everything they ever dreamed of, they long for justice/truth/righteousness/love and they feel in such an environment, it will allow them to have these things.
Is this understandable? Yes, perfectly, but I cant help but think of the saying "Think global, act local."
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness is it not? So, who is lighting candles where they are?
I agree. I think many people dream of establishing a Quranic Community because of their own needs, and it is very easy to see (Crystal clear). They want to create this so called perfect society where there is no war, no or little conflict, where there is constant progress and where they can glorify God together. I think some people also may want this Quranic community because they have different interests than many non-monotheists. Many of people from other faiths for example drink and go to parties, so their interests will therefore differ with us. So many monotheists here at free-minds might want a community where they could meet and be with people that have the same hobbies as them. However, what they forget, is that this world will never be perfect, and this world is not created for entertainment and fun.
Quran 2116
And We did not create the heavens and the Earth and what is between them for entertainment.This world is not created for our own needs (Our ego's), but this world and this life is created to see which one of us will do best deeds(better works). And when it comes to good deeds, we don't need any Quranic community to do these deeds in my opinion. We can do these everywhere.
Quran 672
The One who created death and life, that He may test you, which of you will do better works? He is the Noble, the Forgiving.These reasons are why i am not convinced that a Quranic Community will be needed yet. The best thing we can do is just the spread the message of the Quran, and lay the foundations for the future generations. This is what i believe at the moment. But if there comes a time where the Quranic Community will be needed, and people can convince that this is the right way, then i will accept it. But they must a solid plan and great solutions for starting the community. I think the biggest supporter of the Quranic community in free-minds is Progod. It would be interesting to hear his idea's on this too.
Progod, can you join this thread?
Yours sincerely
David -
peace David, all,
When I first joined this forum, I was primarily interested in increasing my knowledge through discussion. I did increase my knowledge, and it got to the stage where I became comfortable with my views. I then began to think of the way forward, how I could best serve God, and this movement. I will admit it took me 3 years of reading/reflection/etc to wake up. When I look back on it now, I think I am such an idiot for not realising it, but perhaps it wasn't my intellect that was the problem, maybe I did not see it because I was not ready for the answer to the problem. The problem and the answer was of course me.
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Rajah
what country do you live in at the moment? As it seems the main benefit(s) for you moving to such a community could be acheived by living in pretty much any country in the "West".I live in Singapore. Well I beg to differ about the west. It seems in the industrialised west, there are more than one government for each of its nation/country. You have the favourite/rigged and won/food and drug lobbyists'/secret/true,false & 'not so sure' media and other kinds of 'governments' running the country. Of course every country has it faults. peace
I like my country-water is drinkable from the tap mmmmm there must be other reasons too but nothing comes to my mind now..I am not going to defend the piece of land i am living in against any valid/proven claims that certain human rights are violated or anything that seems strange-my country banned chewing gum-hey..it might have benefits-most chewing gums are sweet BUT some say it might help with dental hygiene.
BUT I/my kind will not tolerate any instigations that would set the stage for angry mobs from both this country or any from outside to run free and destroy what has been built by my country's pioneers & nature reserves and what little 'wildlife' we have.
I support universal brotherhood and a country is just a country-God says that this world is big and you are free to move all around it. Those who are blindly patriotic must realise God can destroy a country via any of His ingenious methods-earthquake/tidal waves/asteroid in an instant.....God's earth vs man made boundaries called 'countries'...choose.....God mentioned nations in the Quran and not countries I believe..maybe that would be for another discussion.cheers.....................................................Earth citizenship Visa........................
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peace all,
The topic of a "Quranic community" tends to come up regularly here, generates discussion etc. and when it does, I often feel a little puzzled as to the comments/reaction. So I want to investigate some underlying things to see if I can understand it better. If I were to ask those in favour of such a community some questions, I would start with- What is your primary motive for wanting to join/form such a community?
- What do you feel you can do in such a community that you cant do in the community where you live at the moment?
- Let's say you join such a community, but they implement practices/law that you do not agree with, what would you do?
- How far would you be willing to go to protect such a community if it existed?
- If forming such a community will take time/effort, do you think the same time/effort could be better utilised, or is this not really a concern?
- Is there any criteria you would stipulate for a community member to have in order for them to join?
I may think of some more questions later.
Even if you are not for such a community, feel free to answer theoretically if you wish, or if you are not for or against, you can still answer.
Peace,
Respectfully.- I would want to join/form sucha community in order to live by the Law of God and to avoid sinful acts. It would be the closeest thing to the utopian society, God willing. It would be easier.
- I can't live by the Law of God in this community due to certain issues. I am living by the Law of God at the moment with ease but it would be much, much easier in the Quranic society., God willing.
- If the community is running according to the Quran, then there would be no disagreemnts, God willing.
- I would protect it according to the Quran.
- To form such a communtiy would take as much as one day, because all of us here are pulling in the same direction and at the same time, ergo, if the people are pulling in the same direction and at the same time and for the same goal, God willing, they will achieve this goal within minutes.
- I'd say, follow the Quran and that is all.
May Allah SWT protects us all.
Peace. -
peace Alen,
- To form such a communtiy would take as much as one day, because all of us here are pulling in the same direction and at the same time, ergo, if the people are pulling in the same direction and at the same time and for the same goal, God willing, they will achieve this goal within minutes.
You seem to imply it is very easy to form such a community. If so, why hasn't it happened?
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peace Alen,
You seem to imply it is very easy to form such a community. If so, why hasn't it happened?Peace,
Respecfully.I don't know what others are waiting for but we first need a location, right?
Let's first decide in which city should we form this community.
We who live in UK should decide for UK cities, obviously.
Those in USA, have the states.
There are members all over the world, so now the next question is this where should we form this community, which city in the UK. I'm speaking now for the UK members.I live in Leicester but am willing to relocate to live with my brothers and sisters.
God bless you all.
Peace. -
peace all,
Based on this thread (and others to a lesser extent)
So the issues identified so far
- lack of realistic/practical thinking about an actual plan
- variations in understanding of what AQ actually says on this subject
I have thought of another question effort level expectations
As a % of your spare/free/leisure time, what % do you think would be required to be used to join/form (and then build/continue) such a community?
e.g. let's say you worked 9am-5pm (e.g. 8 hours), 8 hours sleep, and 2 hours for other stuff. Per day, that would leave 6 hours. Just think out of those 6 hours how much time could you contribute. If you only worked 5 days a week, this would give you an extra 28 hours every week, but let's minus 4 more hours for relaxation time. So, in this example, the total number of hours of spare/free/leisure time per week would be 54 hours. That actually sounds quite high to me, so let's say from a maximum of 45 hours per week.
Could you have a think about it, and estimate how many hours per week do you think you would contribute?
Thanks.
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peace all,
Based on this thread (and others to a lesser extent)
So the issues identified so far
- lack of realistic/practical thinking about an actual plan
- variations in understanding of what AQ actually says on this subject
I have thought of another question effort level expectations
As a % of your spare/free/leisure time, what % do you think would be required to be used to join/form (and then build/continue) such a community?
e.g. let's say you worked 9am-5pm (e.g. 8 hours), 8 hours sleep, and 2 hours for other stuff. Per day, that would leave 6 hours. Just think out of those 6 hours how much time could you contribute. If you only worked 5 days a week, this would give you an extra 28 hours every week, but let's minus 4 more hours for relaxation time. So, in this example, the total number of hours of spare/free/leisure time per week would be 54 hours. That actually sounds quite high to me, so let's say from a maximum of 45 hours per week.
Could you have a think about it, and estimate how many hours per week do you think you would contribute?
Thanks.
Peace bro Wakas,
Thanks for the questions. I tried to answer to my understanding.-
lack of realistic/practical thinking about an actual plan
If people want to migrate then we should think of a plan. There is no point agreeing on a plan unless people are expected to carry it out. -
variations in understanding of what AQ actually says on this subject
Briefly, I don't like being the unique person in my vicinity. I'd much rather live around people who believe as I do. Not as complete clones but agreeing on the basics. That the Quran is the message of God, it should be followed sincerely and not mixed with man made conjecture. I have given up on "convincing" people that it is the truth, because it is not up to us to guide. We are not guardians over the people. However I still believe it is good to spread the message, but even that is easier done as a group (see Jehovah's witnesses, Mormans etc.)
Regarding verses. Migrating in the cause of God is something strongly encouraged.
1641 And those who have emigrated for God, after they were oppressed, We will grant them good in the world, and the reward of the Hereafter will be greater, if they knew.
I argue that many of us are oppressed even though we are not physically threatened. For many of us it is simply because of the trangression and disbelief that surrounds us.
1880 ?And as for the youth, his parents were believers, so we feared that he would oppress them by his transgression and disbelief.?
So the above verse makes it clear that oppression is not only through warfare. Ultimately I want to migrate because of this
497 Those whose lives are terminated by the angels, while they had wronged their souls; they said ?What situation were you in??, they said ?We were oppressed on Earth.? They said ?Was God?s Earth not wide enough that you could emigrate in it?? To these their abode will be Hell; what a miserable destiny!
498 Except for those who were oppressed from the men, women, and children who could not devise a plan nor could be guided to a way.We can devise a plan to live amongst believers, what excuses do we have?
- Could you have a think about it, and estimate how many hours per week do you think you would contribute?
One can contribute money as well as time. If people are not willing to contribute some money or time then they do not really want a community. Maybe if we determined a "plan" we may get a better idea of what the costs involved are. What exactly are we spending on?
It would be interesting to hear what others have to say as well.
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peace bro aalmakto,
- lack of realistic/practical thinking about an actual plan
If people want to migrate then we should think of a plan. There is no point agreeing on a plan unless people are expected to carry it out.
I would have thought having a practical/realistic plan first would help generate participation. I see little value in getting the numbers before having some sort of plan.
Re your reply to (2)
I am not saying, in any way, that such a cause/community/idea is not worth pursuing. I was referring to people's variation in understandings on how such a community should work with respect to AQ. You can see this from the answers. This needs to be addressed, or at the very least highlighted so people who are for such an idea are aware of it.One can contribute money as well as time. If people are not willing to contribute some money or time then they do not really want a community. Maybe if we determined a "plan" we may get a better idea of what the costs involved are.
I agree that money as well as time can be contributed. To me, time is something nearly all can give, hence asking it with respect to time. Money is just a conversion of time, because people will have spent time making this money. I also agree, that giving of money/time is an important factor in determining a person's intentions towards this. AQ explicitly states those who strive with their money and their lives (which would include time) have a higher status or gain a greater reward. It is no coincidence it mentions this, as I am sure we have all experienced people who become reluctant when money is mentioned or where hard work is required, including ourselves.
I would like to say there probably is a natural reluctance to answer the "effort level" question that I asked. I would say to all those for such an idea, it wouldn't take long for the community to see how much time/money you were contributing, so there is no point in leaving this unanswered. Might as well be honest.
What exactly are we spending on?
Well, if the only goal is to live amongst like-minded individuals then not much time/money would be needed. I assumed things like charity, volunteering, spreading the message, creating infrastructure for others to join, creating business etc would be taking place... which would need time/money. These are just off the top of my head, as I said, I have not given this idea much thought as I am neutral or not for it.... yet.
- lack of realistic/practical thinking about an actual plan
