A Quranic community? - a few questions first...
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peace all,
Thanks for the replies, it was helpful. To undrstand better, I need to ask some follow up questions
Rajah
what country do you live in at the moment? As it seems the main benefit(s) for you moving to such a community could be acheived by living in pretty much any country in the "West".aalmakto
- Having a sense of belonging is very important for humans, or at least that is my observation. Whether it's a marriage, family, friends, culture/tradition etc so I understand your answer on this.
My idea was that it was more of a "collective migration" type thing. Where there are no law makers or law givers. I don' think we are at the stage where we can be an independent country. A good example is where I live. It is a predominantly Western Country. But the Muslims have all gathered around the local mosque, so finding jobs, getting married, meeting people is easy for them because they can just go to the mosque and talk face to face rather than online.
Yes. I haven't given the "Quranic community" concept much thought (as I am working to a different plan) but IF it were to take place, the above sounds much more practical, e.g. use a country's existing infrastructure, carve a niche, improve upon things, help and support each other etc. I personally have a very strong preference for practicality.
- Not sure if I'd say "extreme" amount of effort would be required, but I think it would be significant.
David
Questions that we must ask ourselves is do we want to start such a community because of our ego's (our own needs), or because we want to contribute to the humanity, and a quranic community would be the best way we can all support and work with eachother as a team, for making the world a better place.
Exactly. I might even go as far as to say I would like to live amongst people who did not care about my beliefs or what I practiced as long as whatever I did and believed did not have a tangibly detrimental effect upon them, and vice versa. In fact, one could even argue this is AQ's position (see chapter 9). I'm not sure if we have fully appreciated AQ's view on this.
What about our children?
I think it is almost inevitible there would be dilution through generations, in terms of original ideas/purity/structure/etc. One way to reduce this effect would be to have a regular influx of like-minded active people to the area.
Arnab
We have to be realistic, so it is definitely good to point out the potential difficulties. I agree with most of what you said. I think spiritual development would be a benefit for such a community, but like most things, there are many avenues to spiritual development, including enduring hardships etc.LP
Re 5)
that the effort used to make this community could be better used in your current community
That was one of the things I was suggesting.Omeiza
I agree with most of what you said about archetypes, systems etc.I know there were only several replies, but generally
Re 3) I think you were implying if a consensus/democratic decision was made, you would accept it, even if you felt it was "unquranic". Fair enough.
In my opinion, I felt that the replies to (2) & (5) were unsatisfactory.
- There were different responses to this question, suggesting we need to further understand AQ's position on this.
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Yes. I haven't given the "Quranic community" concept much thought (as I am working to a different plan) but IF it were to take place, the above sounds much more practical, e.g. use a country's existing infrastructure, carve a niche, improve upon things, help and support each other etc. I personally have a very strong preference for practicality.
Peace Wakas
I had not seen this idea from this point of view. I think until now, this is the best and most realistic one. By having a Quranic community where all monotheists live under the laws of the particular country they live in, they can still work together as a team, and contribute more to the humanity. Monotheists that live close to eachother, for instance monotheists from England, Ireland and France could all move to a huge neighbourhood in for example a city in England, and form/start a Quranic community there. Monotheists from different states in America can move to one state and start a community in the city in that state. Monotheists from different countries in Asia that are close to eachother (neighbours), like for instance Iran, India, pakistan can move to a city in India and start a community there, Monotheists from Australia and New zealand can move to a city in Australia and start community there...
As you say wakas, by doing this monotheists can help and support eachother, and live among likeminded people.
If it works for the sunni and shia muslims, it can work for us too. And i think it will even work much better for us, because we will be a people that constantly educate ourselves, pluss use reason, and live by facts, not by conjecture. This idea could be a way of making other communities seeing us evolve, and becoming inspired to learn more about us. They may also see a different type of Islam than the traditional islam, and then spread the message, and tell people that rational muslims also exist. Because as we know, at least 30% of western people think Islam is not compatible by rationality and reason and evolvement. And when we grow to a larger all around the world, we can then melt this different communities in asia, europe, australia etc, and make all this Quranic communties that are spread around the world into one big "Quranic community". What is your opinion on this wakas?Further we can also start "Quranic Organizations", organizations that could visist poor communities in Asia and Africa that are non-muslims, and teach them the true laws of Islam based on Quran alone. "The Quranic Organization" could also help poor countries giving charity, building schools and hospitals. From what i have observed, many countries stay backwards not only because corruption or the lack of oil, but because they are divided into soooo many different sects. Some countries in africa even have more than 200 languages. If someones friend of mine likes a completely different political party, and his different views on the politics in the world, sometimes that will make us distant. Because the disagreements in almost all political issues will also make the friendship less close. But here we are talking about the language of people, and this is much much more serious, and will have a much greater impact on the dividing or unity of people. So whats the solution? I think that the Quranic organizations in asia, europe, america and australia, can choose one country, and visit that particular country for example 3 months every summer, and teach the people English as the first language, Classical Arabic as the second. By learning people to speak 2 languages rather than 200 different languages, this will give great results, and unite the people. By learning English they would get access to thousands of english books about technology and all other kinds of development. Because as far as i know, many of the african countries have minimal books that are translated to their languages, so it will be far more effective (even 1000 times more), to just move to that country each summer, where 2000 Monotheists teach people English. From what i also have observed, all countries that have english as a first language as evolved, and escaped poverty. This is the true power of language. I think mainly this is because almost all books about science and other developing information is written in English. These teachers and scholars from the Quranic organization can also learn them Classical arabic at the same time. I honestly believe the solutions to the backwardness in Africa can be solved by the laws of the Quran, and if all africans in that particular country have the same faith and follow the same laws (Quranic laws), then they can erase their poverty and grow to be strong and righteous nations. So Quran is also a thing that unite the people, and probably the best thing for keeping them united.
Many militaries in the world for example use a technique called "Divide and Conquer". And by using this technique, and making people divide themselves, the militaries know that the country and people will become weak.
Together they were strong, but when they divide, and start fight with eachother, it will then be easy for militaries to conquer them. This shows us that people are strong only as long as they are united.The Quranic organizations in asia, europe, america and australia, can do other missions and tasks. Every monotheist can for instance use their own talents, and contribute in their own way. Since not everyone wants or likes to be a teacher or a scholar. Someone that is good with architecture, can be an architect there. Someone that can build electronical devices and computers can build this in the country. Someone that is a farmer, can do agriculture there.
Someone that is good with maths can be an econom/businessman. And the list goes...
If the organizations are big enough, this will become a reality. But i doubt that any monotheist can start such big projects and put it into action alone. So the conclusion is that such a organization can only work if there are many monotheists that work as a team together and help eachother. What do you think about this idea bro's? Can this be a realistic plan for us after the establishment of the Quranic Communities (if that happens) ?Yours sincerely
David -
peace David, all,
I'm not sure if it would be necessary or a good thing to join up all the "Quranic communities". This has its advantages and disadvantages.
Re Quranic Organisations
The reasons you gave for having such organizations were spreading the message, charity, building hospitals, spreading education etc and whilst that it good, I dont see how this cant be done in one's own community, or if not, through doing volunteer projects in other countries. Hence saying earlier that the replies given to (2) were unsatisfactory in my view. Dont get me wrong, I understand that it might be easier to do such things with like minded people in larger numbers, but these types of people are not exclusive to monotheists or muslims or us. For example, I know of many groups in my local community who do not care about your views but are very happy to work with you to do certain things, e.g. raise money for charity, do volunteer projects, help those disadvantaged etc. These types of groups/organisations are present all around the world.So the conclusion is that such a organization can only work if there are many monotheists that work as a team together and help each other.
I agree that working together is crucial, but I do not believe we have to be physically present together to do great things.
One of the main reasons I started this thread was that I didn't understand how people thought by forming/joining such a community it would magically allow them to do the things mentioned, when in reality, they can do these things where they are. So my thinking was there must be other (perhaps deeper) reasons why people want this community and I think I know why. It is because people want to belong, it is because people want to be among their own, where they feel at home, they want to be happy, they want to feel secure, they want to feel free, to have peace, to become everything they ever dreamed of, they long for justice/truth/righteousness/love and they feel in such an environment, it will allow them to have these things.
Is this understandable? Yes, perfectly, but I cant help but think of the saying "Think global, act local."
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness is it not? So, who is lighting candles where they are?
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Peace Wakas
Re Quranic Organisations
When it comes to the Quranic Organisations you are right. Spreading the message, charity, building hospitals, spreading education etc, can all be done in our own cities and countries with the help of other Rightheous and Good-hearted people(People that not necesseraly are montoheists). There are already many organisations that contribute, so think starting a Quranic Organisation won't be needed. I guess the idea of being with likeminded people made me think we might work better if we live in a Quranic Community, but this actually don't matter. Because there are other people that want to contribute to the humanity from other faiths that already work as hard as we want to do, and probably much harder, and the only thing we have to do is to join them.One of the main reasons I started this thread was that I didn't understand how people thought by forming/joining such a community it would magically allow them to do the things mentioned, when in reality, they can do these things where they are. So my thinking was there must be other (perhaps deeper) reasons why people want this community and I think I know why. It is because people want to belong, it is because people want to be among their own, where they feel at home, they want to be happy, they want to feel secure, they want to feel free, to have peace, to become everything they ever dreamed of, they long for justice/truth/righteousness/love and they feel in such an environment, it will allow them to have these things.
Is this understandable? Yes, perfectly, but I cant help but think of the saying "Think global, act local."
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness is it not? So, who is lighting candles where they are?
I agree. I think many people dream of establishing a Quranic Community because of their own needs, and it is very easy to see (Crystal clear). They want to create this so called perfect society where there is no war, no or little conflict, where there is constant progress and where they can glorify God together. I think some people also may want this Quranic community because they have different interests than many non-monotheists. Many of people from other faiths for example drink and go to parties, so their interests will therefore differ with us. So many monotheists here at free-minds might want a community where they could meet and be with people that have the same hobbies as them. However, what they forget, is that this world will never be perfect, and this world is not created for entertainment and fun.
Quran 2116
And We did not create the heavens and the Earth and what is between them for entertainment.This world is not created for our own needs (Our ego's), but this world and this life is created to see which one of us will do best deeds(better works). And when it comes to good deeds, we don't need any Quranic community to do these deeds in my opinion. We can do these everywhere.
Quran 672
The One who created death and life, that He may test you, which of you will do better works? He is the Noble, the Forgiving.These reasons are why i am not convinced that a Quranic Community will be needed yet. The best thing we can do is just the spread the message of the Quran, and lay the foundations for the future generations. This is what i believe at the moment. But if there comes a time where the Quranic Community will be needed, and people can convince that this is the right way, then i will accept it. But they must a solid plan and great solutions for starting the community. I think the biggest supporter of the Quranic community in free-minds is Progod. It would be interesting to hear his idea's on this too.
Progod, can you join this thread?
Yours sincerely
David -
peace David, all,
When I first joined this forum, I was primarily interested in increasing my knowledge through discussion. I did increase my knowledge, and it got to the stage where I became comfortable with my views. I then began to think of the way forward, how I could best serve God, and this movement. I will admit it took me 3 years of reading/reflection/etc to wake up. When I look back on it now, I think I am such an idiot for not realising it, but perhaps it wasn't my intellect that was the problem, maybe I did not see it because I was not ready for the answer to the problem. The problem and the answer was of course me.
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Rajah
what country do you live in at the moment? As it seems the main benefit(s) for you moving to such a community could be acheived by living in pretty much any country in the "West".I live in Singapore. Well I beg to differ about the west. It seems in the industrialised west, there are more than one government for each of its nation/country. You have the favourite/rigged and won/food and drug lobbyists'/secret/true,false & 'not so sure' media and other kinds of 'governments' running the country. Of course every country has it faults. peace
I like my country-water is drinkable from the tap mmmmm there must be other reasons too but nothing comes to my mind now..I am not going to defend the piece of land i am living in against any valid/proven claims that certain human rights are violated or anything that seems strange-my country banned chewing gum-hey..it might have benefits-most chewing gums are sweet BUT some say it might help with dental hygiene.
BUT I/my kind will not tolerate any instigations that would set the stage for angry mobs from both this country or any from outside to run free and destroy what has been built by my country's pioneers & nature reserves and what little 'wildlife' we have.
I support universal brotherhood and a country is just a country-God says that this world is big and you are free to move all around it. Those who are blindly patriotic must realise God can destroy a country via any of His ingenious methods-earthquake/tidal waves/asteroid in an instant.....God's earth vs man made boundaries called 'countries'...choose.....God mentioned nations in the Quran and not countries I believe..maybe that would be for another discussion.cheers.....................................................Earth citizenship Visa........................
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peace all,
The topic of a "Quranic community" tends to come up regularly here, generates discussion etc. and when it does, I often feel a little puzzled as to the comments/reaction. So I want to investigate some underlying things to see if I can understand it better. If I were to ask those in favour of such a community some questions, I would start with- What is your primary motive for wanting to join/form such a community?
- What do you feel you can do in such a community that you cant do in the community where you live at the moment?
- Let's say you join such a community, but they implement practices/law that you do not agree with, what would you do?
- How far would you be willing to go to protect such a community if it existed?
- If forming such a community will take time/effort, do you think the same time/effort could be better utilised, or is this not really a concern?
- Is there any criteria you would stipulate for a community member to have in order for them to join?
I may think of some more questions later.
Even if you are not for such a community, feel free to answer theoretically if you wish, or if you are not for or against, you can still answer.
Peace,
Respectfully.- I would want to join/form sucha community in order to live by the Law of God and to avoid sinful acts. It would be the closeest thing to the utopian society, God willing. It would be easier.
- I can't live by the Law of God in this community due to certain issues. I am living by the Law of God at the moment with ease but it would be much, much easier in the Quranic society., God willing.
- If the community is running according to the Quran, then there would be no disagreemnts, God willing.
- I would protect it according to the Quran.
- To form such a communtiy would take as much as one day, because all of us here are pulling in the same direction and at the same time, ergo, if the people are pulling in the same direction and at the same time and for the same goal, God willing, they will achieve this goal within minutes.
- I'd say, follow the Quran and that is all.
May Allah SWT protects us all.
Peace. -
peace Alen,
- To form such a communtiy would take as much as one day, because all of us here are pulling in the same direction and at the same time, ergo, if the people are pulling in the same direction and at the same time and for the same goal, God willing, they will achieve this goal within minutes.
You seem to imply it is very easy to form such a community. If so, why hasn't it happened?
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peace Alen,
You seem to imply it is very easy to form such a community. If so, why hasn't it happened?Peace,
Respecfully.I don't know what others are waiting for but we first need a location, right?
Let's first decide in which city should we form this community.
We who live in UK should decide for UK cities, obviously.
Those in USA, have the states.
There are members all over the world, so now the next question is this where should we form this community, which city in the UK. I'm speaking now for the UK members.I live in Leicester but am willing to relocate to live with my brothers and sisters.
God bless you all.
Peace. -
peace all,
Based on this thread (and others to a lesser extent)
So the issues identified so far
- lack of realistic/practical thinking about an actual plan
- variations in understanding of what AQ actually says on this subject
I have thought of another question effort level expectations
As a % of your spare/free/leisure time, what % do you think would be required to be used to join/form (and then build/continue) such a community?
e.g. let's say you worked 9am-5pm (e.g. 8 hours), 8 hours sleep, and 2 hours for other stuff. Per day, that would leave 6 hours. Just think out of those 6 hours how much time could you contribute. If you only worked 5 days a week, this would give you an extra 28 hours every week, but let's minus 4 more hours for relaxation time. So, in this example, the total number of hours of spare/free/leisure time per week would be 54 hours. That actually sounds quite high to me, so let's say from a maximum of 45 hours per week.
Could you have a think about it, and estimate how many hours per week do you think you would contribute?
Thanks.
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peace all,
Based on this thread (and others to a lesser extent)
So the issues identified so far
- lack of realistic/practical thinking about an actual plan
- variations in understanding of what AQ actually says on this subject
I have thought of another question effort level expectations
As a % of your spare/free/leisure time, what % do you think would be required to be used to join/form (and then build/continue) such a community?
e.g. let's say you worked 9am-5pm (e.g. 8 hours), 8 hours sleep, and 2 hours for other stuff. Per day, that would leave 6 hours. Just think out of those 6 hours how much time could you contribute. If you only worked 5 days a week, this would give you an extra 28 hours every week, but let's minus 4 more hours for relaxation time. So, in this example, the total number of hours of spare/free/leisure time per week would be 54 hours. That actually sounds quite high to me, so let's say from a maximum of 45 hours per week.
Could you have a think about it, and estimate how many hours per week do you think you would contribute?
Thanks.
Peace bro Wakas,
Thanks for the questions. I tried to answer to my understanding.-
lack of realistic/practical thinking about an actual plan
If people want to migrate then we should think of a plan. There is no point agreeing on a plan unless people are expected to carry it out. -
variations in understanding of what AQ actually says on this subject
Briefly, I don't like being the unique person in my vicinity. I'd much rather live around people who believe as I do. Not as complete clones but agreeing on the basics. That the Quran is the message of God, it should be followed sincerely and not mixed with man made conjecture. I have given up on "convincing" people that it is the truth, because it is not up to us to guide. We are not guardians over the people. However I still believe it is good to spread the message, but even that is easier done as a group (see Jehovah's witnesses, Mormans etc.)
Regarding verses. Migrating in the cause of God is something strongly encouraged.
1641 And those who have emigrated for God, after they were oppressed, We will grant them good in the world, and the reward of the Hereafter will be greater, if they knew.
I argue that many of us are oppressed even though we are not physically threatened. For many of us it is simply because of the trangression and disbelief that surrounds us.
1880 ?And as for the youth, his parents were believers, so we feared that he would oppress them by his transgression and disbelief.?
So the above verse makes it clear that oppression is not only through warfare. Ultimately I want to migrate because of this
497 Those whose lives are terminated by the angels, while they had wronged their souls; they said ?What situation were you in??, they said ?We were oppressed on Earth.? They said ?Was God?s Earth not wide enough that you could emigrate in it?? To these their abode will be Hell; what a miserable destiny!
498 Except for those who were oppressed from the men, women, and children who could not devise a plan nor could be guided to a way.We can devise a plan to live amongst believers, what excuses do we have?
- Could you have a think about it, and estimate how many hours per week do you think you would contribute?
One can contribute money as well as time. If people are not willing to contribute some money or time then they do not really want a community. Maybe if we determined a "plan" we may get a better idea of what the costs involved are. What exactly are we spending on?
It would be interesting to hear what others have to say as well.
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peace bro aalmakto,
- lack of realistic/practical thinking about an actual plan
If people want to migrate then we should think of a plan. There is no point agreeing on a plan unless people are expected to carry it out.
I would have thought having a practical/realistic plan first would help generate participation. I see little value in getting the numbers before having some sort of plan.
Re your reply to (2)
I am not saying, in any way, that such a cause/community/idea is not worth pursuing. I was referring to people's variation in understandings on how such a community should work with respect to AQ. You can see this from the answers. This needs to be addressed, or at the very least highlighted so people who are for such an idea are aware of it.One can contribute money as well as time. If people are not willing to contribute some money or time then they do not really want a community. Maybe if we determined a "plan" we may get a better idea of what the costs involved are.
I agree that money as well as time can be contributed. To me, time is something nearly all can give, hence asking it with respect to time. Money is just a conversion of time, because people will have spent time making this money. I also agree, that giving of money/time is an important factor in determining a person's intentions towards this. AQ explicitly states those who strive with their money and their lives (which would include time) have a higher status or gain a greater reward. It is no coincidence it mentions this, as I am sure we have all experienced people who become reluctant when money is mentioned or where hard work is required, including ourselves.
I would like to say there probably is a natural reluctance to answer the "effort level" question that I asked. I would say to all those for such an idea, it wouldn't take long for the community to see how much time/money you were contributing, so there is no point in leaving this unanswered. Might as well be honest.
What exactly are we spending on?
Well, if the only goal is to live amongst like-minded individuals then not much time/money would be needed. I assumed things like charity, volunteering, spreading the message, creating infrastructure for others to join, creating business etc would be taking place... which would need time/money. These are just off the top of my head, as I said, I have not given this idea much thought as I am neutral or not for it.... yet.
- lack of realistic/practical thinking about an actual plan
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Peace
From reading the first post, I think forming communities is possible of course like the Jews do in NY with their various families, temples, and kosher stores about the place. They therefore have means to adhere to certain practices to which they believe. Not sure how far you can take that if you want to tend to the various laws which do not exist where the laws of NY do for instance where the Jews here live. I assume they form communities to be around what is familiar, practice their religion together, and marry into their families.
Joe
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Peace All
I only saw this thread for the very first time today.
It is interesting that most of the feedback seems to be about living together in a quranic community in order to be able to live by the quran, while others seem to be opposing (maybe not entirely opposing) this saying that the same thing can be done in the communities we currently live in. For me it would make more sense to come together, as some have suggested, so that certain commonality is experienced. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, I would like to put forward some questions.
Have any of you attended a conference in your respective countries where like minded quranic people have got together to discuss issues?
Has there been such a gathering in your country that you are aware of?
Wakas, I hope that you don't mind me putting these questions forward while I have not answered yours. I will endeavour to draft some answers to your questions in relation to a group of us who have started taking practical steps towards the formation of a Quranic Community. The reason for my questions is that we have had such a conference and I found the answers to some of your questions in the staging of the conference as well as the feelings upon leaving and saying in touch beyond the conference.
Imraan
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Peace Wakas, all.
I was having a discussion with my brother and it made me think of this thread so I wanted to post some thoughts.(and sorry I didn't read everything everyone posted so if I repeated anything, sorry)
1)Primary motive for joining? many people will want to join for comfort, for ease of practicing their beliefs. But also 3103-104
3103 (Asad) And hold fast, all together, unto the bond with God, and do not draw apart from one another. And remember the blessings which God has bestowed upon you how, when you were enemies, He brought your hearts together, so that through His blessing you became brethren; and you were on the brink of a fiery abyss. He saved you from it. In this way God makes clear His messages unto you, so that you might find guidance,
3104 (Asad) and that there might grow out of you a community who invite unto all that is good, and enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong and it is they, they who shall attain to a happy state!
- What do you feel you can do in such a community that you cant do in the community where you live at the moment?
Personally I can still be a muslim I can still practice my faith. The difference I think would be I wouldn?t hold back because of family. I would have a community to support me to do good, whereas now I need approval before I can do good. My community would not support my views because they will say my 3aqida is wrong. Though independence plays a part. I have no one but myself to support myself so I can?t take too many ?risks? until I?m totally independent.
A community would place an encouragement/motivator, it would support me because it won?t label my creed as messed up/wrong. Though that?s too much positive thinking.
- Let's say you join such a community, but they implement practices/law that you do not agree with, what would you do?
Wouldn?t that be difficult? Definitely. How would the community make its law, are people in that community able to refute such laws? Is it a law of democracy or a law of haqq? How can we be sure?
I think, gauge it with people on free-minds and how their views differ. Maybe for example someone will say you must chop off the hand of a thief but the law isn?t that, what then? Does the law allow people to chop the thief?s hand because it is their belief? Does it give people a leeway to follow their choices?
Maybe it doesn?t, but let?s say people take matters in their own hands? And chop a person?s hand and they justify it by their beliefs, what happens to the person who chopped the thief?s hand. Maybe if the thief agreed it wouldn?t be a huge deal?
But to be realistic a community would need to follow the laws of the state, it?s not like they can create laws, or can they?
Though actually I was thinking of community differently. Maybe you mean more about associations or like community groups inside a state/suburb area. i.e quranic community does this and that, another community of I dunno women?s associations/rights, another community of green peace people. Etc? people advocating for specific causes/agendas.
- How far would you be willing to go to protect such a community if it existed?
If such a community existed, I?d migrate after my studies, if possible. I?d do what I can but to be reasonable, if the community existed... actually how would it be established in the first place?
Would it be given a name that people would instantly stereotype against it and have negative bias prejudice? If people saw a good community, they?d wanna be in it no matter what. They?d do anything to be there. Think of people who go on boats leave everything behind and migrate to countries. Think of people who marry just anyone from a western country just for the sake of ?a better life? to be away from war/poverty etc.
- If forming such a community will take time/effort, do you think the same time/effort could be better utilised, or is this not really a concern?
Sometimes I think it?s almost next to impossible. Because migrating to different countries can?t always happen. I just think of Australia.. if you marry an Australian, they can get an Australian citizenship. If you have education/skill you can apply in the workforce as an international, I think (not to sure) by that you can apply for residency. You can get a student visa, study complete studies and possibly apply for citizenship/residency. The way citizenship works I dunno it?s complicated and works on point systems..
I dunno too much about it but it?s complicated. I can?t just wish to migrate to a country and get residency or citizenship. So if such a community would exist it would be more likely to exist in the country you?re in with like minded people. So that?s why I think its almost next to impossible. People won?t wanna die to live in you community until they see it is awesome.
Back to the question.. i?m not sure what time and effort exactly would be made to create the community. Because how would it be done?
The same time and effort could be better utilised, not everyone utilises their time efficiently though (me being the biggest example). That time depends on what that person can do or what they are willing to do. Not everyone is going to utilise time to help people or themselves. A community establishment could possible act as a motivator for them to utilise their time.
- Is there any criteria you would stipulate for a community member to have in order for them to join?
Nothing I can think of other than abide by the law of the community.
As a % of your spare/free/leisure time, what % do you think would be required to be used to join/form (and then build/continue) such a community?
Could you have a think about it, and estimate how many hours per week do you think you would contribute?
What does contribute mean? What exactly do you mean by that?
Personally what holds me back is my dependence, once I finish studies I can work and have the time/finances to commit to things. Let?s say I have no studies all I have is a job. I?d give my leisure time up to join/form the community. But does that mean I would lose my job? And need to relocate? I?d help build the community prob on weekends to be realistic maybe 25-30hours. If I wasn?t working than a lot more.
This community exists, though not physically. What is this community doing to help each other? Lot?s of people myself included are learning things even removing preconceived ideas. It takes time to accept or see. At least for me it did.
Besides all the questions I said or asked. What type of community did you have in mind? I understand a quranic community but how exactly did you picture a quranic community running? Do you mean just like the local sunni group association or did you mean more than that?
Peace )
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peace Sarah, all,
You ask a lot of questions, so I will try and be brief, but accurate.
Personally I can still be a muslim I can still practice my faith. The difference I think would be I wouldn?t hold back because of family. I would have a community to support me to do good, whereas now I need approval before I can do good. My community would not support my views because they will say my 3aqida is wrong. Though independence plays a part. I have no one but myself to support myself so I can?t take too many ?risks? until I?m totally independent.
A community would place an encouragement/motivator, it would support me because it won?t label my creed as messed up/wrong. Though that?s too much positive thinking.
Most of those living in a Western country are not really limited in terms of practising their beliefs HOWEVER in certain situations there will be exceptions, and so it is more of a matter of "to what degree/extent" would it be better in such a community.
Re group/community law
You later mentioned that new members would have to abide by the community's law, thus by your own admission, there would be some sort of law. Thus it is possible and perhaps likely there would be a law you disagreed with, hence my question.
Re contribution level (i.e. time/effort/money/resources/skills)
Re what cant you do now that you can do in such a communityThe reason I asked the above questions was to understand why people seem to imply they would magically put in so much effort once they are in such a community or do things that they apparently cant do in their current communities. From the replies in this thread and past forum discussion, you will see that the answers are not reassuring, or at least, not to me.
I?d help build the community prob on weekends to be realistic maybe 25-30hours. If I wasn?t working than a lot more.
That would be impressive, but actions speak louder than words P If I did half those hours, I'd be happy.
Re how i see it running.
Well, I would first of all strongly state that I do not feel such a community is necessary, but of course, it is the ideal. And sure, we can aim for the ideal, but I am a huge fan of "be the change you wish to see in the world", thus wherever one is, they should strive to put positivity/betterment into their surroundings, e.g. neighbourhood, city, country, world. I do not see that we need our own country or anything absurd like that. If a community wishes to exist, then simply a collection of like-minded individuals living close by, migrating to a centralised location, forming a community within an existing area/city/infrastructure/etc (this happens all the time in the real world). And they are united on one thing above all else, and that is betterment. Contrary to popular opinion, AQ is quite happy to form bonds between believers and polytheists in terms of a community as long as they uphold the bond and bring forth the betterment (see chapter 9). As we can see, from this simple idea, that beliefs are not as important as many think, and serving the whole is most important. In such an environment, true happiness, growth and justice thrives.
